Cavs vs. Warriors -- 2017 NBA Finals

[Rich]

And I'm not really angry about the situation. Just nothing you can do. Would have been comparable to the Heat losing that first year, and then instead of being traded midseason Carmelo walked on to the team that next summer. Like, what do you do about that? Not much. You play your hardest, do your best to improve internally, and see what happens. You're not going to construct a more talented team than them.

 

[Ohio]

I honestly don't see them losing more than 2 games until the finals. Their going to be that scary.

So just like the Cavs, then.

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

These aren't basketball reasons. Just "well, things like this happened last year, so they'll happen again!" I get the appeal of that and would buy right in if it made sense. But it doesn't. They added Kevin Durant and we did nothing to counter. Things are completely different. Oh well. We will see how it plays out in June. But if they win and keep those four together, I don't think you see us keep this same core together.

I think that the Cavs have two of the best finishers/penetrators in the league and I don't believe in GSW's current teams ability to defend them. I think in a playoff series, with the way those games normally play out, Durant's "rim protection" will be massively compromised in similar fashion to the way it was when Bogut got hurt (and LeBron and Kyrie proceeded to tear them apart). Green is STILL walking the suspension tightrope on a regular basis.

I don't know if the Cavs can afford to drop a home game like last year though and win TWO at Oracle. If we don't hold serve at home for all 3 games in Cleveland, I think we'd be in trouble. But if we just need to steal ONE game, I ultimately believe we can have the two best players on the court for that one game at least.

There's not much analysis coming the other way either

"I don't think we can beat them because we can't counter them adding Durant"

The Warriors have not done anything to show me for CERTAIN that they are remarkably better than the even were last year. They went 73-9 with a +10.8 differential. This year they're probably gonna win what, 68-70 games with maybe a 12 or so point differential?

They may have the POTENTIAL to be remarkably better than they ever were last year, but I don't think they've gotten there yet. I think they have a fundamental crunch-time problem, and that stuff often takes more than one year to properly sort out, no matter how much more talent you have at the top of your roster compared to the rest of the league. Remember, their new make-up has NOT been fully battle tested in a playoff series together, and as theoretically awesome as it might be, it is just THEORETICALLY awesome for now. Curry has already shown signs of sulking and they're on pace for 70 wins. What kind of prima-donna BULLSHIT is that? What happens if they get down 2-1? or even 1-0? Or what happens if they go up 2-0 and then blow the next two with crunch-time blunders and then have a gigantic game 5 against a guy who has had a couple pretty fucking good game 5's in the playoffs at different points of his career.

How many times does Steph have to be a shell of himself in the finals before we start talking about him in the Finals like we talk about Kyle Lowry in the playoffs?

He got outplayed by Dellavedova for half a series which was embarrassing and couldn't even beat Iguodala out for MVP of the series, and then he got outplayed and beat by Kyrie. He was supposed to be the MVP BOTH years too. Are we marking Steph down as "good steph" or "bizarro NBA finals Steph" when we evaluate the match-up?


We all know that the playoffs and the regular season are two completely different animals. The pace is different, the physicality is different, the pressure is different, the rules are even different. And obviously injury potential is a given. A series can flip in a split second, we've seen it happen so many times to so many teams including the Cavs and to a lesser extent GSW.

My point: I keep seeing "there's no way we are beating them with Durant"....but there's definitely PLENTY of ways we can beat them with Durant.

Any team can crumble under the right circumstances and we have a team that can create some pretty damning circumstances, in my opinion. Not perfect, of course.

Also that's assuming we actually play the Warriors. It's 2017. Isn't there some old joke about Popovich and the Spurs during odd years? Hell, that's assuming we make it and don't get blindsided by Boston or Toronto.

Maybe I'm wrong on every point. Maybe none of that is realistic at all and it's wishful thinking or whatever. But I definitely can't sit here every single night trying to enjoy the Cavs season as reigning world champions if all I can say anytime we look bad is "Damn, more evidence that we can't match-up against Golden State with Durant". That sounds depressing.

 

[Rich]

To each his own. They give our players problems. Kevin Love doesn't play well against them. Frye, from what I can tel, can't step on the court against them. They've just got such a huge margin for error now while everyone else has to play perfect. I just think looking at last season as why things will be the way they'll be this season is unwise. Too many things have changed to use last season as a guide. I think we can beat them, but it will require LeBron being his best ever, and kyrie, and Love. Possible, but very very difficult.

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

To each his own. They give our players problems. Kevin Love doesn't play well against them. Frye, from what I can tel, can't step on the court against them. They've just got such a huge margin for error now while everyone else has to play perfect. I just think looking at last season as why things will be the way they'll be this season is unwise. Too many things have changed to use last season as a guide. I think we can beat them, but it will require LeBron being his best ever, and kyrie, and Love. Possible, but very very difficult.

Love will be a more interesting factor this year I think. He's improved a lot defensively, he's been a more consistent shooter and better inside as well. Obviously his back is the main concern now, but if his back is right, I think he will certainly contribute much much more than he did last year.

The question though, is how much more EXACTLY? Hopefully it is a LOT more. We absolutely do need excellence out of Love this time around.

Three weeks until the trade deadline as well. I have to imagine we do something else almost for sure now. Plus the buy-out market has real potential this year.

And I agree with you about Frye. It sucks because I really like Frye a lot and he brings a nice dimension to the team, but I almost feel like the addition of Korver has left Frye as a bit redundant....

If a buy-out isn't an option, I wonder if Dallas would take Frye and Birdman for Bogut if we threw in Cedi as well. Would that be worth it?

Shit, sorry, I should head to the trade thread with that. Don't want to end up turning this thread into a trade idea thread.

 

[jon connor]

I'm all for being optimistic but from a bball standpoint the Warriors are right up there for the most stacked team of all time. Most of their "weaknesses" are overblown and just wishful thinking by fans of other teams.

The Cavs are going to need everything to go right this year and the Warriors are going to have to choke like last year. Problem is they added KD so even chokejobs can be nullified unless they all choke.

I hope I'm wrong but beating them in a 7 game series is a tall task to say the least. I mean one of our big 3 is shit against them and they have a big 4! Do we bank on them choking again? Do we bank on LeBron, a year older, having one of the greatest final series of all time again?

I get it Cavs are the champs but going by last year doesn't seem smart when everything had to go right for the Cavs to win AND they added the second best player in tha league. It can be done but it's going to take a heroic effort from not just Bron and Kyrie but Love and the rest of the team too. It's a lot to ask.

 

[BigJ]

I'm out... i came here 2 years ago because i could not stand the GSW cocksucking and fear of them over at realgm... I thought we where here to pull for Cle no matter what happens..

We for all people have to be the ones that do NOT crown GSW already dammit..

Now you have to justify yourself for believing in your Team on a CAVS board...
I want to puke... all this fear is disgusting... Man up people..

If the Team had the mindset of many here the comeback would have never happend.. they would have gave up in Game 5..

"They are tough to beat" or "They are better" are fine statements but many here go way beyond that. People have started to defend GSW and state how good they are.. What the hell is up here? You will get attacked by some if you think they are worse than the last two years and we can beat them..

I had hoped that after the comeback all the doubters would have been put at ease... oh well..

 

[TitleTown]

And I'm not really angry about the situation. Just nothing you can do. Would have been comparable to the Heat losing that first year, and then instead of being traded midseason Carmelo walked on to the team that next summer. Like, what do you do about that? Not much. You play your hardest, do your best to improve internally, and see what happens. You're not going to construct a more talented team than them.

I think you literally wrote this exact post last year.

I can't wait to hear your excuses for when you're scared of team X next season.

 

[Crosby_Cavs]

For now I don't even want to think about this matchup.

 

[dark2332]

@The Wizard of Moz do you really not think GS is better than last year?

I mean come on, I get you don't like Durant. But he's fucking miles and miles better than Harrison Barnes.



We are a worse defensive team than last year. That's a fact. How did we win it all? Defense. To @TyGuy point, we've lost depth, and it has hurt us though.

Offensively we're better, sure. We got a healthy Kyrie and Kevin Love to finally fit in.

Defensively we are just an average team. We need to be better than average if we want to win a title.

I see your point, but I am not sure that we are worse defensively when it matters.

Regular season and postseason, we are completely different teams. The effort level picks up. The focus is better. We are no regular season juggernaut. We aren't and never have been with LeBron since his return. It just happens that the East can't challenge us and we can get by only playing hard for pieces of games on talent alone. We "save energy" and coast quite a bit in the regular season.

Meanwhile, Golden State plays like it's a playoff game all year.

They are a better team than last year, I'm not in denial. However, I don't think that we are worse. I think we are better as well. On a veteran team like ours, I wouldn't judge our prospects based on the regular season. A bunch of 32-36 year old players save it for the playoffs.

I'm waiting on that one surprise buy-out. An actual difference maker being bought out and us making a run at them. It happens every year. That could be the pickup we need. Even so, we are in a good spot to defend our title.

We were never going to be favorites, and I prefer it that way. You don't add Durant to a 73 win team and somehow become the underdog. Just as we were last year, we are not expected to win. But, in the playoffs, everything changes. There's a real chance that San Antonio, Memphis, Houston, or the Clippers get hot in the playoffs and upset the Warriors. They are favorites, but it's no 100%. We have an easier road to the Finals then they do. So much can happen. And if we do see them there, there's a chance we win. I guess I don't know what else we can hope for. There's no move out there that we can make that will make us the favorites on paper. It just doesn't exist. Luckily, games aren't played on paper.


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[jlegg21]

Know what I bet would be a fun deep dive? Pick a few threads similar to this one and go back to Christmas day and the week after.

Guess what, Golden State was good when we beat them 4 straight, they were always going to be really good this season, and I wouldnt have it any other way. I like my giants big and "unbeatable".

It seems to me that one meaningless blowout loss in January this entire board shook, now everyone is afraid of Golden State cuz theyre finding another gear in the regular season, which means nothing? Give me a break.

Wake me up when June gets here...

 

[Ohio]

I think you literally wrote this exact post last year.

No doubt about that.

 

[BigJ]

I see your point, but I am not sure that we are worse defensively when it matters.

Regular season and postseason, we are completely different teams. The effort level picks up. The focus is better. We are no regular season juggernaut. We aren't and never have been with LeBron since his return. It just happens that the East can't challenge us and we can get by only playing hard for pieces of games on talent alone. We "save energy" and coast quite a bit in the regular season.

Meanwhile, Golden State plays like it's a playoff game all year.

They are a better team than last year, I'm not in denial. However, I don't think that we are worse. I think we are better as well. On a veteran team like ours, I wouldn't judge our prospects based on the regular season. A bunch of 32-36 year old players save it for the playoffs.

I'm waiting on that one surprise buy-out. An actual difference maker being bought out and us making a run at them. It happens every year. That could be the pickup we need. Even so, we are in a good spot to defend our title.

We were never going to be favorites, and I prefer it that way. You don't add Durant to a 73 win team and somehow become the underdog. Just as we were last year, we are not expected to win. But, in the playoffs, everything changes. There's a real chance that San Antonio, Memphis, Houston, or the Clippers get hot in the playoffs and upset the Warriors. They are favorites, but it's no 100%. We have an easier road to the Finals then they do. So much can happen. And if we do see them there, there's a chance we win. I guess I don't know what else we can hope for. There's no move out there that we can make that will make us the favorites on paper. It just doesn't exist. Luckily, games aren't played on paper.


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That is the thing... so far the last two years went like this:

Cle- Coasts during the RS..basically treats anything before late March as Preseason.
Make a huge jump late in the Season and are(barring injury) the best Team in the NBA come Playoff time. Style of Play is perfect for Playoffs

GSW- Want to win every Game and play their best all Season long.
Are a bit exhausted from the High Level Play All Season and are not Made really for the Playoff style of ball.

I dont expect this to Change..

They have yet to prove that they can even Play anywhere close to their RS Style of ball in the Playoffs.. the last two years they looked much, much worse compared to how dominant they can be in the RS..

And you are so right about the Part that we cant really make a move that would get us out of the underdogs status.. We basically would have to trade Frye and Shump for Jimmy Butler or Boogie Cousins without giving up Love to match their 4 Superstars..
They stacked the Deck in a way nobody right now cant compete... thats why the owners gave up alot in the new CBA to prevent something from happening again.

No matter what we do.. they will remain Favourites.. They propably will stay favourites even if one of Steph,Klay,KD or Green gets injured..

 

[BigJ]

Know what I bet would be a fun deep dive? Pick a few threads similar to this one and go back to Christmas day and the week after.

Guess what, Golden State was good when we beat them 4 straight, they were always going to be really good this season, and I wouldnt have it any other way. I like my giants big and "unbeatable".

It seems to me that one meaningless blowout loss in January this entire board shook, now everyone is afraid of Golden State cuz theyre finding another gear in the regular season, which means nothing? Give me a break.

Wake me up when June gets here...

I realised that too... people way too short sighted and reactionary.. Knee Jerk reactions all over the place..

Others and myself basically preached all year last January after the blowout .. "lets see what happens till June.. IF we meet them we will see what happens then.. one Game in January means nothing. alot can and will happen in almost 6 Months.."

Now here we are again... Same Situation...

People seemingly cant seem to keep the Big Picture in Mind.

-They could suffer from injurys that prevent them from even getting to the Finals...so could we..
-Any of SA,MEM,HOU,SA,LAC could get healthy and Hot at the right moment and take out GSW
-especially Boston or even Toronto could pull a Trade that when they get hot against us could actaully endanger us
-GSW could choke again once they face a true Great Team in the WCF and maybe this time there is no 11 threes Game from Klay to save them..

Just too much time .. With Lebron and our Team you seemingly cant even get worried when we are down 1-3... so i will damn not worry now..

 

[godfather]

I see your point, but I am not sure that we are worse defensively when it matters.

Regular season and postseason, we are completely different teams.

I get that, but we were a good defensive team last year. Our numbers all across the board have fallen. In the regular season. We are not a very good defensive team right now. We were never dominant in the regular season, but the team defended when it mattered. They can't do that this year.

They are a better team than last year, I'm not in denial. However, I don't think that we are worse. I think we are better as well. On a veteran team like ours, I wouldn't judge our prospects based on the regular season. A bunch of 32-36 year old players save it for the playoffs.

We are worse defensively. And that's our bread and butter. It has been when it has came to our post-season success. Our defense is worse than ever in the LeBron era. That's not a good trend.

I'm waiting on that one surprise buy-out. An actual difference maker being bought out and us making a run at them. It happens every year. That could be the pickup we need. Even so, we are in a good spot to defend our title.

We say this every year, and end up being disappointed. I'd love for a Bogut to get bought out, but I don't think it's happening. I'm not pulling my hopes on a miracle buyout to come in and save the day.

We were never going to be favorites, and I prefer it that way. You don't add Durant to a 73 win team and somehow become the underdog. Just as we were last year, we are not expected to win. But, in the playoffs, everything changes. There's a real chance that San Antonio, Memphis, Houston, or the Clippers get hot in the playoffs and upset the Warriors. They are favorites, but it's no 100%. We have an easier road to the Finals then they do. So much can happen. And if we do see them there, there's a chance we win. I guess I don't know what else we can hope for. There's no move out there that we can make that will make us the favorites on paper. It just doesn't exist. Luckily, games aren't played on paper.


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It's not about being the favorite for us. It's not even really about GS right now. We are developing some absolutely awful defensive tendencies. And if want to beat anyone coming out of the West. Not just GS, but SA, we got to figure it out.

Right now, I don't think we'd beat either team in a series if the season ended today. But luckily, the season doesn't end today. Do I think we've peaked? No, I don't, I get that. But our defense is a legit weakness.