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The Finances and Debt Thread

Do Not Sell My Personal Information
Fidelity cash rewards - 2% cash back unlimited. No paying off yimick needed to get half of it
Chase freedom - cycling 5% cash back
Discover it - cycling 5% cash back
Us bank cash+ rewards - pick 2 5% back categories
Fort Knox federal credit union platinum - 5% cash back in gas
Vantagewest credit union connect rewards - pick 5% back (better categories than us bank)

This will provide you with bare minimum 2% cash back at all times. Then you can get 5% cash back in a lot of cases. 5% back at Costco and 5% back on gas including at Costco is super helpful to have year round since I spend about 10 grand there per year between food, gas, and other stuff.
 
why would you want points instead of 2% cash back?

If you travel a lot, the points for hotel stays makes more sense then cash back because you save more in the long run from my understanding.
 
why would you want points instead of 2% cash back?

All of my cards get a much higher return rate all together than 2%.

For example, let's take the (old - it has been updated) Hyatt card (which is not my daily card... more on that later).
When I got it, it had a sign up offer of 60,000 points if I spend 2k in 3 months (easily done via real spend or manufactured spend).

I am going to use 50k (of the 60k) points this year for 10 hyatt place nights (not the best redemption value but I love Hyatt places when traveling by myself and it's only 5k-8k depending on which Hyatt place per night). The average night cost there is $150. That means I'm getting $1500 for free just from opening the card and spending my normal spend on it for a month.

The Hyatt Card has the first year fee waived and then $95 after that. When the annual fee hits after the first year, I will ask for a retention offer and likely be offered between 5,000 and 10,000 points or the annual fee waived (thus paying or exceeding the fee) or else I will cancel (Hyatt card can't be downgraded).

So when looking at just the Hyatt card (keep in mind you can get much better redemption deals from hyatt then 5k points for a 150$ a night room) I will be getting $1500 in value for something I will at MOST pay $95 for (def wont keep it if I don't have a retention offer going forward after year 1). On my one year anniversary, I will get a free night to any Hyatt up to 25,000 points - IE a $350 value easily, or at worst, a $150 value if I use it on another Hyatt place). Likely, I will get more like $1800 in value (with redemption offer) for something I pay $0 for after 1 year.

If that was my only card, and it just got me 1x back on all spend (I'd never do that) and 2x on food , I'd be looking at the equivalent of 1 to 2 cents per point (depending on how I used it - in my case around 1.5cpp average).

So you get 2% cash back on a card that has no good sign up bonus, and I get 1.5% value on points to Hyatt plus $1800 in free stays, so you'd need to spend $180,000+ just to break even on the 2% cash back vs my bonus offer + regular spend Hyatt.


Now, that really simplifies the issue though, because I'd never use the Hyatt card as my daily driver. I use the Amex Gold for food and groceries (4x points on both, talking around 4.6% back the way I use it), SPG Lux on regular spend (2x points on everything, worth about 2.8% back the way I use it), Chase Freedom when in category (5% back) and any branded card if I am using their hotel/airline IE SPG card at marriot (6x points = around 7% back for me), Hyatt at Hyatt (4x = 4% back) etc.

The Southwest Companion Pass + Points alone has saved me over $3,000 (9 flights this year free + free companion on every single flight)
The SPG (regular) card has saved me over $2,500 (5 night stay in a suite in NOLA during Sugar Bowl... 5th night free when using points on New Years Eve was 700 free on its own)

It goes on an on. The only time 2% cash back makes more sense then points is 1) if you never travel and 2) if you can't get these cards due to really poor credit.
 
All of my cards get a much higher return rate all together than 2%.

For example, let's take the (old - it has been updated) Hyatt card (which is not my daily card... more on that later).
When I got it, it had a sign up offer of 60,000 points if I spend 2k in 3 months (easily done via real spend or manufactured spend).

I am going to use 50k (of the 60k) points this year for 10 hyatt place nights (not the best redemption value but I love Hyatt places when traveling by myself and it's only 5k-8k depending on which Hyatt place per night). The average night cost there is $150. That means I'm getting $1500 for free just from opening the card and spending my normal spend on it for a month.

The Hyatt Card has the first year fee waived and then $95 after that. When the annual fee hits after the first year, I will ask for a retention offer and likely be offered between 5,000 and 10,000 points or the annual fee waived (thus paying or exceeding the fee) or else I will cancel (Hyatt card can't be downgraded).

So when looking at just the Hyatt card (keep in mind you can get much better redemption deals from hyatt then 5k points for a 150$ a night room) I will be getting $1500 in value for something I will at MOST pay $95 for (def wont keep it if I don't have a retention offer going forward after year 1). On my one year anniversary, I will get a free night to any Hyatt up to 25,000 points - IE a $350 value easily, or at worst, a $150 value if I use it on another Hyatt place). Likely, I will get more like $1800 in value (with redemption offer) for something I pay $0 for after 1 year.

If that was my only card, and it just got me 1x back on all spend (I'd never do that) and 2x on food , I'd be looking at the equivalent of 1 to 2 cents per point (depending on how I used it - in my case around 1.5cpp average).

So you get 2% cash back on a card that has no good sign up bonus, and I get 1.5% value on points to Hyatt plus $1800 in free stays, so you'd need to spend $180,000+ just to break even on the 2% cash back vs my bonus offer + regular spend Hyatt.


Now, that really simplifies the issue though, because I'd never use the Hyatt card as my daily driver. I use the Amex Gold for food and groceries (4x points on both, talking around 4.6% back the way I use it), SPG Lux on regular spend (2x points on everything, worth about 2.8% back the way I use it), Chase Freedom when in category (5% back) and any branded card if I am using their hotel/airline IE SPG card at marriot (6x points = around 7% back for me), Hyatt at Hyatt (4x = 4% back) etc.

The Southwest Companion Pass + Points alone has saved me over $3,000 (9 flights this year free + free companion on every single flight)
The SPG (regular) card has saved me over $2,500 (5 night stay in a suite in NOLA during Sugar Bowl... 5th night free when using points on New Years Eve was 700 free on its own)

It goes on an on. The only time 2% cash back makes more sense then points is 1) if you never travel and 2) if you can't get these cards due to really poor credit.

so you're mainly talking about signup bonuses. I can see value in using a card long enough to get the excessive sign up bonus rewards if they are for a service I'd use the rewards with, then closing the card after the rewards are used. I'm not sure what impact that would have on your credit score, though, when you consistently lower your average account age.

Once you've hit your signup bonus, why are you using the same card for 1.5% rewards you have to use with one specific company instead of using a 2% cash back card you can use the money anywhere?

The main place I don't use a 2% cash back card is somewhere like Amazon, where I can instead get 5% cash back rewards using their card.
 
so you're mainly talking about signup bonuses. I can see value in using a card long enough to get the excessive sign up bonus rewards if they are for a service I'd use the rewards with, then closing the card after the rewards are used. I'm not sure what impact that would have on your credit score, though, when you consistently lower your average account age.

Once you've hit your signup bonus, why are you using the same card for 1.5% rewards you have to use with one specific company instead of using a 2% cash back card you can use the money anywhere?

The main place I don't use a 2% cash back card is somewhere like Amazon, where I can instead get 5% cash back rewards using their card.

I don't use a 1.5% cash back card (although I do have a chase freedom unlimited since I always product change annual fee cards to non-annual fee cards when I can). The lowest I use is 2x back on my SPG lux, and that's about a 2.8% value for me the way I use it.
I use Amazon 5% back on Amazon. Amex Gold 4x back on Grocery and Food. Chase Freedom 5% back on specific categories, etc.

Cancelling a card does not effect you much until 10 years out, as it stays on your account as a "closed" card for 10 years. My suggestion is to have a parent or spouse add you as an Authorized User on a really old card to fix any potential problem from this.
 
All of my cards get a much higher return rate all together than 2%.

For example, let's take the (old - it has been updated) Hyatt card (which is not my daily card... more on that later).
When I got it, it had a sign up offer of 60,000 points if I spend 2k in 3 months (easily done via real spend or manufactured spend).

I am going to use 50k (of the 60k) points this year for 10 hyatt place nights (not the best redemption value but I love Hyatt places when traveling by myself and it's only 5k-8k depending on which Hyatt place per night). The average night cost there is $150. That means I'm getting $1500 for free just from opening the card and spending my normal spend on it for a month.

The Hyatt Card has the first year fee waived and then $95 after that. When the annual fee hits after the first year, I will ask for a retention offer and likely be offered between 5,000 and 10,000 points or the annual fee waived (thus paying or exceeding the fee) or else I will cancel (Hyatt card can't be downgraded).

So when looking at just the Hyatt card (keep in mind you can get much better redemption deals from hyatt then 5k points for a 150$ a night room) I will be getting $1500 in value for something I will at MOST pay $95 for (def wont keep it if I don't have a retention offer going forward after year 1). On my one year anniversary, I will get a free night to any Hyatt up to 25,000 points - IE a $350 value easily, or at worst, a $150 value if I use it on another Hyatt place). Likely, I will get more like $1800 in value (with redemption offer) for something I pay $0 for after 1 year.

If that was my only card, and it just got me 1x back on all spend (I'd never do that) and 2x on food , I'd be looking at the equivalent of 1 to 2 cents per point (depending on how I used it - in my case around 1.5cpp average).

So you get 2% cash back on a card that has no good sign up bonus, and I get 1.5% value on points to Hyatt plus $1800 in free stays, so you'd need to spend $180,000+ just to break even on the 2% cash back vs my bonus offer + regular spend Hyatt.


Now, that really simplifies the issue though, because I'd never use the Hyatt card as my daily driver. I use the Amex Gold for food and groceries (4x points on both, talking around 4.6% back the way I use it), SPG Lux on regular spend (2x points on everything, worth about 2.8% back the way I use it), Chase Freedom when in category (5% back) and any branded card if I am using their hotel/airline IE SPG card at marriot (6x points = around 7% back for me), Hyatt at Hyatt (4x = 4% back) etc.

The Southwest Companion Pass + Points alone has saved me over $3,000 (9 flights this year free + free companion on every single flight)
The SPG (regular) card has saved me over $2,500 (5 night stay in a suite in NOLA during Sugar Bowl... 5th night free when using points on New Years Eve was 700 free on its own)

It goes on an on. The only time 2% cash back makes more sense then points is 1) if you never travel and 2) if you can't get these cards due to really poor credit.

What’s your estimated debt balance? That’s my issue. I don’t make enough to run up credit debt, and I don’t trust myself yet (I’m 25, mortgage) to avoid racking up something I can’t afford.

I also don’t travel. And based on balances in accounts (over 20k) and credit, I was pre-approved for all but one card that Chase offers for non-businesses. But just don’t trust myself yet.
 
What’s your estimated debt balance? That’s my issue. I don’t make enough to run up credit debt, and I don’t trust myself yet (I’m 25, mortgage) to avoid racking up something I can’t afford.

I also don’t travel. And based on balances in accounts (over 20k) and credit, I was pre-approved for all but one card that Chase offers for non-businesses. But just don’t trust myself yet.

I don't put a single extra $ on my cards that I wouldn't already spend. IE I'm not racking up spending just to hit minimum spends. I normally spend around 2k a month organically. If I have to hit a high minimum spend I'll offer to pay one of my buddies rent via card, buy visa gift cards and then turn them into Money orders, or use Plastiq for an unfortunate 2.5% fee (try to never do this).

To be honest, I can't understand the logic people use when they try to explain why they use cash or a debit card over a credit card (I dont want to spend what I don't have). Just don't fucking spend money you don't have. If you are going to use a debit card or cash on something, switch to a CC. Don't go out and buy stuff just because you have a CC.

If you're not traveling, a lot of this is moot. There are still cards that reward you with the ability to do cash back or travel (IE CSP, CSR, Schwab Amex Plat, Citi has a few, etc). But like someone said earlier, you may as well just get a free 2% back card (or the Uber card, which actually doesn't suck) while starting out.



If trust is your issue, you should not be getting CC's but it shouldn't really be an issue.
 
So there is a significant discrepancy between identityguard and experian.coms reports on my credit. Identityguard was pulled 10.09 and I pulled experian 10.14: identity guard put all 3 scored about 70 points higher than did experian. Nothing has happened in the 5 days in between pulls.

Wtf?
 
So there is a significant discrepancy between identityguard and experian.coms reports on my credit. Identityguard was pulled 10.09 and I pulled experian 10.14: identity guard put all 3 scored about 70 points higher than did experian. Nothing has happened in the 5 days in between pulls.

Wtf?
Do you have the same accounts listed under each score? They all use different models and scales. It could be a good thing (like, your score is on the rise and the others haven't caught up yet). It also be timing (when they pulled your account balances). You're going to drive yourself nuts checking your credit score every 5 days. If neither accounts have any negative reports or unusual accounts, wait a few months before you figure out what's wrong. It may level out.
 
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Do you have the same accounts listed under each score? They all use different models and scales. It could be a good thing (like, your score is on the rise and the others haven't caught up yet). It also be timing (when they pulled your account balances). You're going to drive yourself nuts checking your credit score every 5 days. If neither accounts have any negative reports or unusual accounts, wait a few months before you figure out what's wrong. It may level out.
Same accounts same everything They're all experian eq and trans with the same collections etc they should all be the same

Antsy to refi student loans
 
So there is a significant discrepancy between identityguard and experian.coms reports on my credit. Identityguard was pulled 10.09 and I pulled experian 10.14: identity guard put all 3 scored about 70 points higher than did experian. Nothing has happened in the 5 days in between pulls.

Wtf?

Experian (or Equifax, can't remember which) gives you a free FICO (8) score. 95% of other places (like CreditKarma or NerdWallet) are giving you a VantageScore, and even then there are two different types, Vantage 2 and Vantage 3 (some still use Vantage 1). VantageScores are not proprietary and that's why they're so widely used; however, the credit bureaus themselves typically hand out FICO 8 or FICO 9 scores because that's what they deal in mostly.

To give you an idea of the difference, Vantage 3 can include on-time bill payments; FICO doesn't reward new accounts at all (they need 6 months of reporting) whereas Vantage is instantaneous; FICO doesn't reward paying off non-reporting collections whereas Vantage does (which is extremely misleading for people hoping to get better credit), etc etc..

So depending upon your credit history, you could end end with wildly different scores. For rental purposes, most places use VantageScores, but lending institutions almost universally use either FICO 8 or FICO 9. Mortgages are completely different, and the credit score is just the way to get you in the door since they actually underwrite your loan looking at the history rather than relying on the score.

tl;dr, you can calculate 4 different scores for your Experian credit history using FICO 8, FICO 9, VantageScore 2, and VantageScore 3. All of them valid and reproducible and using the same input data.
 
Fidelity cash rewards - 2% cash back unlimited. No paying off yimick needed to get half of it
Chase freedom - cycling 5% cash back
Discover it - cycling 5% cash back
Us bank cash+ rewards - pick 2 5% back categories
Fort Knox federal credit union platinum - 5% cash back in gas
Vantagewest credit union connect rewards - pick 5% back (better categories than us bank)

This will provide you with bare minimum 2% cash back at all times. Then you can get 5% cash back in a lot of cases. 5% back at Costco and 5% back on gas including at Costco is super helpful to have year round since I spend about 10 grand there per year between food, gas, and other stuff.
I need to sort out my CC shit. Looking at that Fidelity card, do you have to deposit the rewards into a Fidelity account or some type of investment account to get the 2%?
 
This might be a stupid question that I should know, but what are good cash back credit cards? The one I have does not have any rewards attached to it.
 
I need to sort out my CC shit. Looking at that Fidelity card, do you have to deposit the rewards into a Fidelity account or some type of investment account to get the 2%?

Yes. I deposit it into a brokerage account. I get about $50 to $100 a month in rewards from that card alone. I always apply the rewards right back into the card after they are deposited into my brokerage account. You can also transfer them to another bank.
 
This might be a stupid question that I should know, but what are good cash back credit cards? The one I have does not have any rewards attached to it.

If you are a big on shopping at Costco, then - The Cotsco credit card is pretty decent.
 

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