The Game (2017) | #9 Ohio State @ TTUN | November 25th, 2017 @ High Noon

[I'mWithDan]

Top-5 coach in college football along with Saban, Urban, Sweeney, and Jimbo though right???????

They turned over the entire defense and had their starting QB get hurt in week 5. This was described as a rebuilding year, so 8-4 seems about right to me.

It’s certainly put up or shut up next year though. They return a lot talent and should have the best defense in the league. Harbaugh will have 3 QB’s he recruited on the roster and all in the system for at least a year.

If he doesn’t compete for the CFP next season, I’d call his tenure a pretty big failure. Michigan has bounced back from the horrendous years under Hoke and RR but they have managed to squander half of their rivalry games thus far.

 

[Ohio]

View: https://twitter.com/Dan_Hope/status/934532136761221120


View: https://twitter.com/Dan_Hope/status/934533179360317440


Wtf?

 

[I'mWithDan]

So is he implying a cameraman jumped off the top rope? Gave him the people’s elbow?

 

[-Akronite-]

They turned over the entire defense and had their starting QB get hurt in week 5. This was described as a rebuilding year, so 8-4 seems about right to me.

It’s certainly put up or shut up next year though. They return a lot talent and should have the best defense in the league. Harbaugh will have 3 QB’s he recruited on the roster and all in the system for at least a year.

If he doesn’t compete for the CFP next season, I’d call his tenure a pretty big failure. Michigan has bounced back from the horrendous years under Hoke and RR but they have managed to squander half of their rivalry games thus far.

There current record makes sense, but it’s funny to contrast to Urban who had injured QBs in his third year and won a National Championship.

 

[Ohio]

There current record makes sense, but it’s funny to contrast to Urban who had injured QBs in his third year and won a National Championship.

Anyone who put him on a pedestal with Saban & Meyer were kidding themselves.

 

[I'mWithDan]

There current record makes sense, but it’s funny to contrast to Urban who had injured QBs in his third year and won a National Championship.

Given how good the defense has been, what would Michigan’s record be if they had even an above average QB? 11-1? 12-0? Their floor would be 10 wins if they just had a guy who could simply hit open receivers.

I think this year will be the exception a few years down the road. Harbaugh deserves some flack for choking away some of these rivalry games but you guys aren’t being honest with yourself if you don’t think he’s one of the best coaches.

They’ll likely win their bowl game, which would put them at 29 wins through 3 years while returning most of their roster. They have had some stinging losses, most notably against MSU / OSU but they are positioned to be really good next year and have recruited well.

Again, they have to put it together but they played top 10 teams in back to back weeks and had chances to win both games if they could have just not had awful QB play. I think Harbaugh should have considered burning McCaffrey’s redshirt when Speight went down but preserving seemed to signal that this was just going to be a rebuilding year, healthy or not.

Michigan will have to prove it on the field but given how awful the team was 3 years ago, they are positioned well for next season.

 

[I'mWithDan]

Anyone who put him on a pedestal with Saban & Meyer were kidding themselves.

Could care less about record references. Harbaugh taking over Michigan was not like Meyer taking over OSU.

OSU had twice the talent on their roster Michigan did. There’s a big difference between a short dip, given coaching circumstances surrounding Tressell and having a program just bottom out for 5-6 years.

Michigan will be fine under Harbaugh, assuming he sticks around.....but talking about what coach did what in year 3, as it pertains to the coaching resumes of Harbaugh / Meyer is relatively worthless. It’s apples to oranges.

 

[Huber.]

Could care less about record references. Harbaugh taking over Michigan was not like Meyer taking over OSU.

OSU had twice the talent on their roster Michigan did. There’s a big difference between a short dip, given coaching circumstances surrounding Tressell and having a program just bottom out for 5-6 years.

Michigan will be fine under Harbaugh, assuming he sticks around.....but talking about what coach did what in year 3, as it pertains to the coaching resumes of Harbaugh / Meyer is relatively worthless. It’s apples to oranges.

Meyer took over a 6 win team not a juggernaut. He then gained more talent because he instantly recruited better which is half the battle. Michigan will be fine under Harbaugh as long as they have low expectations. If he leaves then Cooper is available.

 

[Ohio]

Given how good the defense has been, what would Michigan’s record be if they had even an above average QB? 11-1? 12-0? Their floor would be 10 wins if they just had a guy who could simply hit open receivers.

I think this year will be the exception a few years down the road. Harbaugh deserves some flack for choking away some of these rivalry games but you guys aren’t being honest with yourself if you don’t think he’s one of the best coaches.

They’ll likely win their bowl game, which would put them at 29 wins through 3 years while returning most of their roster. They have had some stinging losses, most notably against MSU / OSU but they are positioned to be really good next year and have recruited well.

Again, they have to put it together but they played top 10 teams in back to back weeks and had chances to win both games if they could have just not had awful QB play. I think Harbaugh should have considered burning McCaffrey’s redshirt when Speight went down but preserving seemed to signal that this was just going to be a rebuilding year, healthy or not.

Michigan will have to prove it on the field but given how awful the team was 3 years ago, they are positioned well for next season.

But Harbaugh is supposed to be some QB whisperer I thought? How can he be in year 3 and still never have anything better than average QB play, or average offense overall? The defense is elite but that is because of Don Brown. Going 8-4 in year 3 with some of his players after going 10-3 with Hoke's players doesn't look good.

It isn't going to get any easier next year. Michigan plays at Notre Dame, at Northwestern, Wisconsin, at Michigan State, Penn State, at Ohio State. That schedule is absolute hell. It's very possible that Wisconsin, Michigan State and Ohio State are all better next season than they were this season as well.

I don't think he HAS to win the B1G or make the playoff or anything next year but there needs to at least be notable improvement on the offensive side of the ball if Harbaugh is meant to be taken seriously.

Could care less about record references. Harbaugh taking over Michigan was not like Meyer taking over OSU.

OSU had twice the talent on their roster Michigan did. There’s a big difference between a short dip, given coaching circumstances surrounding Tressell and having a program just bottom out for 5-6 years.

Michigan will be fine under Harbaugh, assuming he sticks around.....but talking about what coach did what in year 3, as it pertains to the coaching resumes of Harbaugh / Meyer is relatively worthless. It’s apples to oranges.

That's fine. I'm talking about people who think he's in the Saban/Meyer tier. He isn't. He never was. He's now coached 7 years with a Power 5 school and had one good season (thanks to Andrew Luck). He's never won a Power 5 conference title. He's never won a national title. Etc.

He's obviously a good coach and he's done a good job making Michigan relevant again but right now he is John Cooper. Now he can obviously be more than that but just because Michigan will allegedly be better next year doesn't mean the rest of the B1G won't be getting better either.

Also, the team Meyer inherited here was Braxton and a bunch of dudes. We had fullbacks playing linebacker that year. It's amazing that team went 12-0. Our national title in year 3, most of the impact players were Meyer's guys.

But yeah. Year 4 is put up or shut up time. There's no more kicking the can down the road. Maybe he should stop wasting his time with gimmicks and focus more on football.

 

[col63onel]

Per the 24/7 composite rankings, Michgan was 30th, 6th, 5th, 20th and 37th in recruiting the 5 previous seasons to Harbaugh's arrival. the 20th and 37th wasn't good, but the bulk of his upperclassmen when he came were made up of top 10 classes. Cupboard wasn't remotely bare.

OSU's previous 5 were 10, 5, 18, 6, 5. Certainly better, but not loads better. Plus, Meyer inherited a team with scholarship reductions as well.

 

[billmac91]

Per the 24/7 composite rankings, Michgan was 30th, 6th, 5th, 20th and 37th in recruiting the 5 previous seasons to Harbaugh's arrival. the 20th and 37th wasn't good, but the bulk of his upperclassmen when he came were made up of top 10 classes. Cupboard wasn't remotely bare.

OSU's previous 5 were 10, 5, 18, 6, 5. Certainly better, but not loads better. Plus, Meyer inherited a team with scholarship reductions as well.

Yeah....something just isn't "clicking" up North.

They lose a ton of talent again this year, especially on the offensive line (Cole LT, Kugker C, and Bushell Beatty RT) and lose several studs on defense (Hurst, McCray, Winovich).

They're going to breaking Peters in most likely, who didn't look that great in his short action on field this year, or McCaffrey who was highly rated, but many have said "overrated" based on his last name.

Will be interesting to see if Harbaugh sticks it out or potentially bails to NFL....their roster next year just doesn't look that promising either.

 

[I'mWithDan]

Per the 24/7 composite rankings, Michgan was 30th, 6th, 5th, 20th and 37th in recruiting the 5 previous seasons to Harbaugh's arrival. the 20th and 37th wasn't good, but the bulk of his upperclassmen when he came were made up of top 10 classes. Cupboard wasn't remotely bare.

OSU's previous 5 were 10, 5, 18, 6, 5. Certainly better, but not loads better. Plus, Meyer inherited a team with scholarship reductions as well.

The difference between a top 5 class and a top 20 class is astronomical. Top 5 classes have elite, 4 and 5 star players in them. Top 20 classes are comprised of mostly 3 star players and maybe 1-2 really highly ranked guys.

I’m sure a lot of you don’t pay attention to Michigan recruiting but the reason this was slotted as a rebuild, almost from year 1 with Harbaugh, was the class balance. Those 20th and 37th ranks were made even worse by the fact that they were tiny classes (15-16 players). Hoke opted to overload 12/13....sign max classes and then back date any scholarships on EE’s.

Where it was absolutely crippling was the offensive line. Where they signed like 5 players over two classes and then had transfers make that already terrible situation even worse. Michigan’s 2 deep on the OL this season only has 7 players (and 1 is a 2 star walk on).....not hard to do the math there. Their trench depth on O was depleted by Hoke’s terrible management of scholarships.

If you look at the roster this season, they only have 5 guys even consistently playing from those two classes....the only real difference maker out of that group has been Hurst. McCray finally got healthy the last 16 games and played well as well but the other guys are good players but they’re just not to level you would expected of a 4 year player at Michigan IMO.

Cuppord wasn’t bare but if you look at those even highly ranked classes, those players did not perform to their rankings for the most part. A handful of good players but Hoke was an awful talent evaluator. Just comparing a 3-star Harbaugh has recruited and a 4-star Hoke recruited is laughable when you look at player development and on field production.

The situations weren’t even in the same ballpark but everyone can carry on with the Harbaugh bashing.

 

[I'mWithDan]

They lose a ton of talent again this year, especially on the offensive line (Cole LT, Kugker C, and Bushell Beatty RT) and lose several studs on defense (Hurst, McCray, Winovich).

I think you are really overstating what they lose. On defense, they will be loaded on the DL. Hurst is a really good player but they can easily replace his production.

Linebacker has been the position they have recruited probably the best of any. I suspect they’ll just be plug and play there.

Offensive line is a bigger question mark. They are going to be starting some inexperienced guys there but it will be all guys Harbaugh has recruited.

Michigan produces a depth chart of 24 guys, as they list some offensive players who split time. Assuming Speight is healthy and can play, Michigan will return 18 of those 24 starters....11 of those 18 are underclassmen.

Their roster will be as good as it has been under Harbaugh next season. Questions on who steps in at OL but their defense should be even better with an injection of athleticism at LB. That is why I stated it is put up or shut up next year. In year 4, you better have a QB if you’re an offensive coach...at that point, they are all your guys. If not, you have failed miserably IMO.

 

[col63onel]

The difference between a top 5 class and a top 20 class is astronomical. Top 5 classes have elite, 4 and 5 star players in them. Top 20 classes are comprised of mostly 3 star players and maybe 1-2 really highly ranked guys.

I’m sure a lot of you don’t pay attention to Michigan recruiting but the reason this was slotted as a rebuild, almost from year 1 with Harbaugh, was the class balance. Those 20th and 37th ranks were made even worse by the fact that they were tiny classes (15-16 players). Hoke opted to overload 12/13....sign max classes and then back date any scholarships on EE’s.

Where it was absolutely crippling was the offensive line. Where they signed like 5 players over two classes and then had transfers make that already terrible situation even worse. Michigan’s 2 deep on the OL this season only has 7 players (and 1 is a 2 star walk on).....not hard to do the math there. Their trench depth on O was depleted by Hoke’s terrible management of scholarships.

If you look at the roster this season, they only have 5 guys even consistently playing from those two classes....the only real difference maker out of that group has been Hurst. McCray finally got healthy the last 16 games and played well as well but the other guys are good players but they’re just not to level you would expected of a 4 year player at Michigan IMO.

Cuppord wasn’t bare but if you look at those even highly ranked classes, those players did not perform to their rankings for the most part. A handful of good players but Hoke was an awful talent evaluator. Just comparing a 3-star Harbaugh has recruited and a 4-star Hoke recruited is laughable when you look at player development and on field production.

The situations weren’t even in the same ballpark but everyone can carry on with the Harbaugh bashing.

Those types of attrition happen everywhere, especially when there is a coaching change, and a similar thing happened to Meyer. OLine, especially, was always an underrecruited position from Tressel.

In 2010 OSU signed 17 players (3 other players listed as "signed" but I don't think ever enrolled), one of whom was a long snapper (who never played). Between 10-11, OSU signed 5 OLineman, of which 2 transferred before their eligibility, 1 graduated and moved on as a redshirt junior and never saw any regular playing time, and one switched to DT.

There were 2 DEs signed over that time who switched over to OLine, one of them becoming a backup and another a 1 year starter, because that's what good coaches do with a numbers crunch.

Of the 17 who signed in 2010, 6 either were dismissed, transferred, or stopped playing due to injury. 8 guys ended up contributing, but only 2 during Meyer's 3rd year, one of whom was a kicker. The majority of contributors for 2014's team were signed either in 2012 or 2013, classes in which Meyer was working with a scholarship limit.

It's really not as different as you want it to be.

 

[I'mWithDan]

Those types of attrition happen everywhere, especially when there is a coaching change, and a similar thing happened to Meyer. OLine, especially, was always an underrecruited position from Tressel.

In 2010 OSU signed 17 players (3 other players listed as "signed" but I don't think ever enrolled), one of whom was a long snapper (who never played). Between 10-11, OSU signed 5 OLineman, of which 2 transferred before their eligibility, 1 graduated and moved on as a redshirt junior and never saw any regular playing time, and one switched to DT.

There were 2 DEs signed over that time who switched over to OLine, one of them becoming a backup and another a 1 year starter, because that's what good coaches do with a numbers crunch.

Of the 17 who signed in 2010, 6 either were dismissed, transferred, or stopped playing due to injury. 8 guys ended up contributing, but only 2 during Meyer's 3rd year, one of whom was a kicker. The majority of contributors for 2014's team were signed either in 2012 or 2013, classes in which Meyer was working with a scholarship limit.

It's really not as different as you want it to be.

If you think following a coach who spent 10 years winning 80% of his games and following two coaches who spent 10 years driving the program in to the ground are the same thing, then we are all wasting our time here.