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The Game (2017) | #9 Ohio State @ TTUN | November 25th, 2017 @ High Noon

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Anyone who put him on a pedestal with Saban & Meyer were kidding themselves.

Saban went 6-6 in his first season at Bama and lost at home to Louisiana Monroe.

In year 4, he was 9-3 and finished 4th in the SEC West.

Rebuilding programs takes time. Urban Meyer did not rebuild a program at OSU.

Guauntee the sensitive responses will pour in from that but OSU fans love to fixate on Meyer rebuilding things for some reason when he just took over a successful program who had a terrible head coach for one year.
 
Saban went 6-6 in his first season at Bama and lost at home to Louisiana Monroe.

In year 4, he was 9-3 and finished 4th in the SEC West.

Rebuilding programs takes time. Urban Meyer did not rebuild a program at OSU.

Guauntee the sensitive responses will pour in from that but OSU fans love to fixate on Meyer rebuilding things for some reason when he just took over a successful program who had a terrible head coach for one year.

While I agree with you the Michigan was in a worse place than OSU when taking over as respective head coaches of each team, I don’t think is a dire as you paint the picture. To be honest, I think it was much worse when Hoke took over from Rodriguez.

My bigger beef is your Alabama example . You conveniently left off year 2 and 3 for Saban at Alabama. He won the SEC west going 12-2 in year 2 and went 14-0 (national championship) in year 3. If that is the comparison for a rebuild then Harbaugh is behind.
 
While I agree with you the Michigan was in a worse place than OSU when taking over as respective head coaches of each team, I don’t think is a dire as you paint the picture. To be honest, I think it was much worse when Hoke took over from Rodriguez.

My bigger beef is your Alabama example . You conveniently left off year 2 and 3 for Saban at Alabama. He won the SEC west going 12-2 in year 2 and went 14-0 (national championship) in year 3. If that is the comparison for a rebuild then Harbaugh is behind.

I was more pointing out the uneven nature of having to turn over a program that hasn’t been good for an extended period of time.

Saban even had years early where the team wasn’t good or underperformed. Obviously they won a NC in year 3 but his first 4 years consisted of a 6-6 season and a 9-3 season. It takes time to really turnover a program that has been bad through several regimes.....even for the best coaches.

Again, I think Meyer is a great coach and recruiter. I’m not saying he isn’t. I’m stating that largely people don’t give Harbaugh the benefit of the doubt because they don’t personally like him, which is fine....but he’s just had some inexplicably stupid things happen that are out of his control. 2-3 more games they should have won tacked on his 3 year resume would make a big difference.

I think a microcosm of his tenure was the dropped INT in yesterday’s game. OSU is about to make somewhat of a backbreaking mistake and give the ball back down 14-0. Instead, a player just drops a ball thrown right to him. Last year it was a punter just dropping a snap...etc, etc. Is that seriously coaching?
 
If you think following a coach who spent 10 years winning 80% of his games and following two coaches who spent 10 years driving the program in to the ground are the same thing, then we are all wasting our time here.
A.) That's a strawman, I never said it was the same. In fact here's a couple quotes by me

"Certainly better, but not loads better."

"It's really not as different as you want it to be."

I admit OSU was in a better place. However, I am refuting your characterization of them being so different.

B.) What does 10 years ago have to do with anything? Like, are you arguing that because OSU was better in the mid-2000s, long before Meyer got there, that his job was easier? That's a stretch, unless you have some context I am unaware of.

C.) Last year, after OSU won, you came in here all emotional and not making much sense. You are doing the same this year.

I get that watching Michigan lose is tough. But coming to an OSU board, and being antagonistic when they make legit arguments is not constuctive.
 
B.) What does 10 years ago have to do with anything? Like, are you arguing that because OSU was better in the mid-2000s, long before Meyer got there, that his job was easier? That's a stretch, unless you have some context I am unaware of.

So you don’t think recruiting is easier if you’re taking over a program that is relevant the entire time a kid is in grade school and high school? Vs trying to sell tradition that a kid maybe hasn’t even seen? The fact that you are trying to say you are unaware of how being good for a long stretch before a coach got there would make a job easier is a little.....interesting. Sorry. I don’t know what word to use to not get you too riled up here.

I get that watching Michigan lose is tough. But coming to an OSU board, and being antagonistic when they make legit arguments is not constuctive.

Antagonistic? OSU fans view of being antagonistic is interesting. This is like the Trump Sub Reddit in here. Any view that isn’t exactly aligned with yours is an antagonistic view apparently. I think you’re reading my posts with any angry voice in mind or something. Carry on.
 
Saban went 6-6 in his first season at Bama and lost at home to Louisiana Monroe.

In year 4, he was 9-3 and finished 4th in the SEC West.

Rebuilding programs takes time. Urban Meyer did not rebuild a program at OSU.

Guauntee the sensitive responses will pour in from that but OSU fans love to fixate on Meyer rebuilding things for some reason when he just took over a successful program who had a terrible head coach for one year.
Holy misleading.

For starters, Saban went 10-3 in year 4 and won the Capital One Bowl.

In year 3, he went undefeated and won a National Championship.

In year 2, he was 12-0 before losing to...Urban.

Saban had one bad year at Bama. One! His first year. And they were far more of a dumpster fire than Michigan.

(Edit: I see now this was already mentioned, of course).

As for Urban, yeah I agree he took over a better situation at both OSU and Florida. Those programs weren't dumpster fires when he took over.

But Harbaugh doesn't have the accolades those two have; he's not even close. You can't be in that tier without hardware.
 
So you don’t think recruiting is easier if you’re taking over a program that is relevant the entire time a kid is in grade school and high school? Vs trying to sell tradition that a kid maybe hasn’t even seen? The fact that you are trying to say you are unaware of how being good for a long stretch before a coach got there would make a job easier is a little.....interesting. Sorry. I don’t know what word to use to not get you too riled up here.

That's a valid point, but 10 years ago? Kids sign when they are 17-18, so you are saying that being good when kids were in elementary school is some huge advantage? Not buying that. When they are in middle/high school, sure, but kinda limits the timetable to 5 years, when we've seen the difference in recruiting wasn't really that big.

Antagonistic? OSU fans view of being antagonistic is interesting. This is like the Trump Sub Reddit in here. Any view that isn’t exactly aligned with yours is an antagonistic view apparently. Carry on.

Well, this post is very passive-aggressive. And you said, "The situations weren’t even in the same ballpark but everyone can carry on with the Harbaugh bashing." And you straw manned me. So yes, on an OSU board, that's being antagonistic.

And if I went to a Michigan board, and just compared recruiting results and records and said Meyer was the objectively better coach, which is a pretty defensible thing to say, then I'd be antagonistic.
 
Holy misleading.

For starters, Saban went 10-3 in year 4 and won the Capital One Bowl.

In year 3, he went undefeated and won a National Championship.

In year 2, he was 12-0 before losing to...Urban.

Saban had one bad year at Bama. One! His first year. And they were far more of a dumpster fire than Michigan.

So isn’t this argument applicable to Harbaugh? He won 10 games in each of his first two seasons. The last time Michigan won 10 games back to back was 2002/2003.

Michigan had won 20 games in the 3 years prior to his arrival and there’s seriously people in this thread questioning his coaching abilities?

Go back and read pre-season predictions for this year. No one expected Michigan to be as competitive as they were....and even so, if Speight just stays healthy, they certainly win 9 games and could have beat either Wisconsin or OSU with just some decent QB play.

If you guys want to bash Harbaugh have at it. I suspect if he stays the course at UM some of these comments will look a little silly in 2-3 years.
 
So isn’t this argument applicable to Harbaugh? He won 10 games in each of his first two seasons. The last time Michigan won 10 games back to back was 2002/2003.

Michigan had won 20 games in the 3 years prior to his arrival and there’s seriously people in this thread questioning his coaching abilities?

Go back and read pre-season predictions for this year. No one expected Michigan to be as competitive as they were....and even so, if Speight just stays healthy, they certainly win 9 games and could have beat either Wisconsin or OSU with just some decent QB play.

If you guys want to bash Harbaugh have at it. I suspect if he stays the course at UM some of these comments will look a little silly in 2-3 years.
Yes he's done a good job taking them from a joke to John Cooper status. Do you really expect anyone to put him in the top tier of coaches for that?

Maybe he'll actually accomplish something in the next 2-3 years? Like a conference title? Or a top tier bowl win? You know, something tangible? Or maybe he's just John Cooper? We'll find out I guess. So far with 7 years at a Power 5 school he's got an Orange Bowl with Andrew Luck :chuckle:
 
On one hand you're saying his tenure is a failure if he doesn't compete for a CFP spot next year (which I actually disagree with) and on the other hand you're arguing with my point that he's not a top tier coach. It doesn't make sense.
 
No one is doing that. Just saying he's not on the top tier of coaches.

So you truly believe if, for example, Saban left Alabama and Jim Harbaugh said “I want to coach at Alabama”....that they wouldn’t hire him?

If we are talking just put a resume up there with no context, then sure, he’s not a top tier coach....but that is a pretty lazy argument.

He’s consecutively rebuilt a PAC-12 doormat, a disaster of an NFL team and a traditional power that was bad for 10 years. Those situations are not necessarily going to be conducive to a “rings” argument but pretty clearly state he’s a top tier football coach.
 
So you truly believe if, for example, Saban left Alabama and Jim Harbaugh said “I want to coach at Alabama”....that they wouldn’t hire him?

I'd think Alabama would go after Dabo first. Maybe Kirby Smart or Dan Mullen, as well. Maybe Jimbo. So maybe not their first choice, even if interested.

If we are talking just put a resume up there with no context, then sure, he’s not a top tier coach....but that is a pretty lazy argument.

He’s consecutively rebuilt a PAC-12 format, a disaster of an NFL team and a traditional power that was bad for 10 years. Those situations are not necessarily going to be conducive to a “rings” argument but pretty clearly state he’s a top tier football coach.
And he's a good coach. But there are 4 guys I just named who would compare favorably with Harbaugh.

You are comparing us to Trump fans not being able to handle any criticism, but you can't handle people saying coaches with clearly better resumes are better coaches.
 
I'd think Alabama would go after Dabo first. Maybe Kirby Smart or Dan Mullen, as well. Maybe Jimbo. So maybe not their first choice, even if interested.


And he's a good coach. But there are 4 guys I just named who would compare favorably with Harbaugh.

You are comparing us to Trump fans not being able to handle any criticism, but you can't handle people saying coaches with clearly better resumes are better coaches.

Dan Mullen. I’ll see myself out now.

Good luck next week.
 
I guess the part I have trouble with is while Harbough is a good coach, I don't know if he is even a top 3 coach in the big ten East.

Urban
Franklin
Dantonio


Does he have a big name yes, but I am not sure if at the college level he has proven he is better then any of the above coachs.
 

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