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Damn, Jimmy G this is some serious good quarterbacking.

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My issue with him for the number twelve pick is that, when he was drafted, he clearly was not worth a pick that high. What has he done since then to justify his price rising to that level? Nothing.

I'll preface this with: I do not under any circumstances want to use #12 in a Jimmy trade.

But playing devil's advocate, I could see how people could argue that Jimmy's value has changed greatly from his draft position...but I could see it in both directions.

I could argue that taking a developmental 2nd round QB and teaching him how to operate from under center, how to command an NFL locker room and huddle, how to understand an NFL playbook, how to read an NFL defense, how to adjust to the speed of NFL athletes, etc. actually increases his value. Especially when he learned all of this from freaking Bill Belichick and Tom Brady. This is serious work that you have to do with rookie QBs that we would not have to do in this case, because it was already done by the best in the business..

But on the other side of the coin, his contract situation is absolutely a negative. You're spending draft picks on a guy who you have only one guaranteed year of control over on a reasonable price tag, with only that year to evaluate what kind of money he deserves moving forward. That's a huge negative.

No I do not want to spend #12 on Jimmy. But I also don't believe his value is #62 pick in the draft anymore by any means.
 
I'll preface this with: I do not under any circumstances want to use #12 in a Jimmy trade.

But playing devil's advocate, I could see how people could argue that Jimmy's value has changed greatly from his draft position...but I could see it in both directions.

I could argue that taking a developmental 2nd round QB and teaching him how to operate from under center, how to command an NFL locker room and huddle, how to understand an NFL playbook, how to read an NFL defense, how to adjust to the speed of NFL athletes, etc. actually increases his value. Especially when he learned all of this from freaking Bill Belichick and Tom Brady. This is serious work that you have to do with rookie QBs that we would not have to do in this case, because it was already done by the best in the business..

But on the other side of the coin, his contract situation is absolutely a negative. You're spending draft picks on a guy who you have only one guaranteed year of control over on a reasonable price tag, with only that year to evaluate what kind of money he deserves moving forward. That's a huge negative.

No I do not want to spend #12 on Jimmy. But I also don't believe his value is #62 pick in the draft anymore by any means.

Great post
 
The "Matt Cassel" effect does not scare me. If anything, it speaks to the high quality coaching he's receiving that they were able to get Cassel to play so well in New England.

I could understand that if the "high-quality coaching" was of a kind that stuck with him after he left New England, but it apparently didn't. So whether actually it's high-quality coaching, or just a very good system, I'd question whether it really lasts.

So I guess I'm the opposite -- the Matt Cassel effect makes me really nervous about overvaluing Garappolo.
 
My issue with him for the number twelve pick is that, when he was drafted, he clearly was not worth a pick that high. What has he done since then to justify his price rising to that level? Nothing.
Won 2 super bowls
 
Matt Cassel inherited a team that went 18-1. Playing with Randy Moss in his prime, and Wes Welker. It wasn't just coaching, he had superior talent all around him.

He was still a game-managing QB that season, and sure, McDaniels did a great job protecting him and maximizing what he could do well.

Everyone overreacts to the Matt Cassel situation. It just speaks more to how talented New England was at that point. Jimmy never inherited a team remotely that good offensively.

He didn't throw the football to one single pro-bowl player.
 
Matt Cassel inherited a team that went 18-1. Playing with Randy Moss in his prime, and Wes Welker. It wasn't just coaching, he had superior talent all around him.

He was still a game-managing QB that season, and sure, McDaniels did a great job protecting him and maximizing what he could do well.

Everyone overreacts to the Matt Cassel situation. It just speaks more to how talented New England was at that point. Jimmy never inherited a team remotely that good offensively.

He didn't throw the football to one single pro-bowl player.

He was still playing with a very experienced, well-oiled offensive machine, and in a system where he had the benefit of watching the greatest QB of all time manage it.

Whether or not he will be equally proficient in another system, and after other teams have a chance to get game tape on him and make adjustments, is an open question.

Cassel made the Pro Bowl initially with KC. But once teams got enough tape on him, he was relegated to scrub-hood. The exact same could easily be true with Garappolo -- he wouldn't be the first backup to look great for a couple of starts, but end up not being a legitimate starter.
 
He was still playing with a very experienced, well-oiled offensive machine, and in a system where he had the benefit of watching the greatest QB of all time manage it.

Whether or not he will be equally proficient in another system, and after other teams have a chance to get game tape on him and make adjustments, is an open question.

Cassel made the Pro Bowl initially with KC. But once teams got enough tape on him, he was relegated to scrub-hood. The exact same could easily be true with Garappolo -- he wouldn't be the first backup to look great for a couple of starts, but end up not being a legitimate starter.

People though actually get mistaken and think Cassel was the catalyst, not even close. His initiative was to get the ball to Welker and Moss, and let them make plays.

Cassel wasn't that bad either. He had some talent, he's always been inconsistent. Hell, he was inconsistent that season even.

To have an effective system QB for example, you need superior playmakers around that QB, otherwise the system QB will fail. Great coaching in football can't make up for it.

Maybe Jimmy's very small sample size was a fluke, but I don't really think coaching or the system had a significant impact in what he displayed in his very brief stint. He showed he has real skills/talent to play the position. But, that doesn't mean he'll work out either.

Notice when Brissett was in, they had to change the entire philosophy of the offense, because Brissett doesn't yet have the talent/skills as a Jimmy.

Even Bill admitted, they didn't change or dumb down the offense for Jimmy in place of Brady. They kept it the same. Bill is never known to shower guys with compliments.

They must think pretty highly of Jimmy.
 
The overreaction to the Cassel situation, and the Osweiler situation ("he" "won" a super bowl too, you know), is that idea that because a backup looks competent when pressed into service for a super bowl caliber team, he MUST be valuable because he's obviously going to be able to recreate that competence somewhere else.
 
The overreaction to the Cassel situation, and the Osweiler situation ("he" "won" a super bowl too, you know), is that idea that because a backup looks competent when pressed into service for a super bowl caliber team, he MUST be valuable because he's obviously going to be able to recreate that competence somewhere else.

Those guys are apples and oranges.

Osweiler looked like shit. He was benched. Yes, to Peyton Manning, but not the good Peyton Manning.

Matt Cassel looked nothing more than a system-QB at best. He did look like he could be an Alex Smith QB at best.

Hell, look at his numbers in NE. 7.16 yards per completion (that's very average at best), and just 21 tds to 11 picks. That's not wow, production.

What some people don't realize, or just forget, two years later, in KC, he actually had arguably a better season than he did in NE, with lesser talent.

Threw for less yards, but 27 tds to just 7 picks, with a passer rating of 93.

Cassel showed moments of being a capable system QB, but he's always struggled with consistency.

If anyone saw franchise QB in him after his NE stint, then they didn't actually watch him play that season.

Jimmy is just guilty of having less tape on him than those two, but he does show legit talent/flashes I think both Osweiler and Cassel never showed at all.
 
The entire league watched him play, and the Pats had to put the franchise tag on him to make sure he didn't walk. The Chiefs certainly watched him play, and gave him $28 million guaranteed.
 
The entire league watched him play, and the Pats had to put the franchise tag on him to make sure he didn't walk. The Chiefs certainly watched him play, and gave him $28 million guaranteed.

Yeah, because he showed he looked like a legit starting QB that can be a system caliber. The Chiefs traded a second round pick for him, which is fair value for someone like that. Notice not a first round pick. A second round pick seems like a lot, but it's not for a QB that looks like he can start in this league.

Look what Jay Cutler got on the market. Look what QB's warrant in trades that have never he taken a snap in the NFL. It's a lot... It's a highly coveted position.

There's nothing wrong with being a 'system QB' for the record, which Cassel definitely showed he's capable of being at times. Not just in NE, but in Kansas City for a brief time. There are a lot of QBs that can't even be that in this league.

Cassel's problem was consistency.
 
Why is this still an ongoing debate?

If a Cleveland Browns QB put up Jimmy G three game sample, everyone in here would be saying that the sample size is too small.
 
Why is this still an ongoing debate?

If a Cleveland Browns QB put up Jimmy G three game sample, everyone in here would be saying that the sample size is too small.
Exactly..

I honestly don't want to give up a lot to get Jimmy Garappolo. I would be OK with offering a few 2nd-round picks, but New England is talking about wanting multiple first-round picks just to hold the conversation? No thanks.

On top of that, the Browns would need to extend Garappolo, meaning they are giving up their cap space, and multiple high draft picks for a guy who we don't know can be the guy, all we have is a small sample size to go off of, and the fact he is the backup to Tom Brady makes it more intriguing to others.

I believe they do move him, because it's silly for Bill and company not to take all these picks for a backup QB, when they will have Brady for at least 2-3 more years. That is more than enough time to find another guy to replace him, especially when you're being offered all those picks.

I'd much rather go the route of drafting our guy in this draft. If they can move up from 12 and get their pick of Mitch and Watson, that's a win in my eyes.

Sent from my Galaxy Edge. Don't forget that the Golden State Warriors blew a 3-1 lead in the NBA Finals.
 
Does it make any difference to you guys that your women will probably watch football with you on Sundays if they get Jimmy? This could be a poz or neg obvi.

Also more hot single drunk chicks in the stands with Jimmy jerseys and wet giners.
 

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