Cedi Osman Goodbye & Good Luck

[stowfan]

I’ve actually never seen any player change the form on their jumper as much in a single year.

It’s damn impressive. Not just the upper body, but his lower body and lift, too. It’s been entirely reconstructed and somehow seems natural already.

In part, NBA writers project how bad the Cavs will be based on last year's stats. Cedi only averaged 3.9 points last year. I'm really hoping that number goes up to the 10-15 ppg range. Some other notables are Zizic 3.7 ppg, and TT 5.9 ppg

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

In part, NBA writers project how bad the Cavs will be based on last year's stats. Cedi only averaged 3.9 points last year. I'm really hoping that number goes up to the 10-15 ppg range. Some other notables are Zizic 3.7 ppg, and TT 5.9 ppg

We are fucked. Say goodbye to Nassir Little.

 

[benchplayer]

In part, NBA writers project how bad the Cavs will be based on last year's stats. Cedi only averaged 3.9 points last year. I'm really hoping that number goes up to the 10-15 ppg range. Some other notables are Zizic 3.7 ppg, and TT 5.9 ppg

I think a lot of this is gonna depend on Lue and if he can implement an offensive system based on ball movement. You have to remember, Lebron turned a lot of guys into spot-up/standstill shooters when he was here. That's gone now, so I expect guys to be constantly moving and the ball to be constantly moving. We don't have anybody to pound the air out of the ball now. We hear other players and coaches talk about how good of a coach Lue is, now's his chance to prove it. I think the cavs are gonna surprise a lot of people this year.

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

I think a lot of this is gonna depend on Lue and if he can implement an offensive system based on ball movement. You have to remember, Lebron turned a lot of guys into spot-up/standstill shooters when he was here. That's gone now, so I expect guys to be constantly moving and the ball to be constantly moving. We don't have anybody to pound the air out of the ball now. We hear other players and coaches talk about how good of a coach Lue is, now's his chance to prove it. I think the cavs are gonna surprise a lot of people this year.

Lue sucks.

The only people that talk about him positively are broadcasters and ex-players that have/had a friendly relationship with him.

The only thing I hope is that he isn't going to mess this up and screw our young players development.

Cavs roster on paper is much better than people give them credit for. It's a playoffs team in the east under a good coach.

 

[benchplayer]

Lue sucks.

The only people that talk about him positively are broadcasters and ex-players that have/had a friendly relationship with him.

The only thing I hope is that he isn't going to mess this up and screw our young players development.

Cavs roster on paper is much better than people give them credit for. It's a playoffs team in the east under a good coach.

Oh, believe me, I've said that many times. When I said "I expect the ball to be moving" I meant there is no excuse for them to trot out the same iso-ball b.s as last yr.
I merely stating that without LeBron we are gonna see Lue in true form, for better or worse.

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

Oh, believe me, I've said that many times. When I said "I expect the ball to be moving" I meant there is no excuse for them to trot out the same iso-ball b.s as last yr.
I merely stating that without LeBron we are gonna see Lue in true form, for better or worse.

Gotcha

 

[Jstock12]

we are gonna see Lue in true form

 

[CSF]

I always believed Lue to be a top 5 coach where as his playoff record clearly indicates he’s one of the best . I’m excited to see him flourish without LePunk holding him down .

 

[Cavatt]

I am most excited about seeing Cedi as a playmaker this year. Glad he got some good chemistry going with Ante and Collin in summer league.

I am also pretty curious to see where he will be in the pecking order as far as scoring goes. He should get 10 easy with enough minutes.

 

[priceFTW]

Oh, believe me, I've said that many times. When I said "I expect the ball to be moving" I meant there is no excuse for them to trot out the same iso-ball b.s as last yr.
I merely stating that without LeBron we are gonna see Lue in true form, for better or worse.

They won’t because there’s nobody good enough to make it work.

I just want to reiterate to posters here how good that “iso-ball bs” offense was—it may not have “looked good” to some, but it was an all time great offense.

This past year, with injuries and so many moving parts, the Cavs’ offense with LeBron on court had a staggering 118.8 ORtg. With Love at the 5 and without Wade, Crowder, Rose, and IT, it was 122.2. The Warriors this year with Curry, KD, and Klay on court had a 123.3 OTRG for comparison. The all time greatest regular season offense had an ORtg of 115.6 (2017 Warriors).The Spurs in 2014 against the Heat had an ORtg of 120.8

That “iso-ball bs” created the best playoffs offense in NBA history (2017–the year we ran the most ISO) and the 5th best in NBA playoffs history (2016).

Cavs’ ORtings in the playoffs from 2015 to 2018:

2017 vs. Celtics, 128.4
2018 vs. Raptors, 127.3
2016 vs. Hawks, 122.9
2016 vs. Pistons, 120.4
2017 vs. Celtics, 120.4
2017 vs. Raptors, 120.3
2017 vs. Pacers, 119.8
2016 vs. Raptors, 118.5
2017 vs. Warriors, 114.6
2015 vs. Hawks, 114.0
2015 vs. Bulls, 112.3
2015 vs. Celtics, 111.6
2016 vs. Warriors, 109.1
2018 vs. Pacers, 105.8
2015 vs. Warriors, 99.6

In comparison, here are the Warriors’ best offensive series; the Cavs’ offense has actually been more lethal EVEN WITH GSW BOASTING MULTIPLE GENERATIONAL TALENTS AND A “SYSTEM.”

122.2: vs SAS last year
121.3: vs. Cavs last year
117.3
117.1
116.1
116.0 vs Cavs this year
115.8
113.7

Here’s the vaunted Spurs’ system everyone speaks of and the best series they have put together over the last 12 years. We know that an always very good to great defense has been their greatest strength

121.0 vs. Memphis, 2017
120.8 vs. Miami, 2014
117.1
114.4
113.7
113.2
113.1
113.1

In three playoffs, the Cavs have posted THREE DIFFERENT series with a better offense than what the Spurs did in OVER TWELVE years. The Cavs posted EIGHT series with a better ORTG over 3 years than the Spurs’ third best over a 12 year span.

Here’s a list of the best offensive series in NBA history (over the last 44 years at least); the Cavs have 5 of the top 29, i.e., 50% of all Cavs’ playoff series since 2016 began have been in the top 1% of all playoff series played which is goddamn ridiculous. They also have two best ever.

Cavs 2017 vs. Celtics, 128.4
Cavs 2018 vs. Raptors, 127.3
Suns 1995 vs. Blazers, 127.3
Bulls 1992 vs. Miami, 126.7
Lakers 1987 vs. Nuggets, 125.1
Suns 2005 vs. Grizzlies, 124.8
Lakers 1985 vs. Suns, 124.6
Lakers 1988 vs. Mavs, 124.6
Lakers 2010 vs. Suns, 124.2
Magic 1996 vs. Pistons, 123.7
Magic 1996 vs. Hawks, 123.1
Cavs 2016 vs. Hawks, 122.9
Lakers 1986 vs. Spurs, 122.7
Thunder 2016 vs. 122.5
Lakers 1989 vs. Blazers, 122.4
Warriors 2017 vs. Spurs, 122.2
Lakers 1984 vs. Mavs, 121.9
Jazz 1997 vs. Clippers, 121.7
Lakers 1987 vs. Warriors, 121.7
Bulls 1991 vs. Pistons, 121.6
Celtics 1986 vs. Bulls, 121.4
Warriors 2017 vs. Cavs, 121.3
Spurs 2017 vs. Memphis, 121.0
Bulls 1993 vs. Hawks, 121.0
Spurs 2014 vs. Miami, 120.8
Rockets 1995 vs. Jazz, 120.6
Cavs 2016 vs. Pistons, 120.4
Cavs 2017 vs. Raptors, 120.3
Magic 1995 vs. Pacers, 120.2

 

[TyGuy]

Price out here destroying dreams and narratives.

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

They won’t because there’s nobody good enough to make it work.

I just want to reiterate to posters here how good that “iso-ball bs” offense was—it may not have “looked good” to some, but it was an all time great offense.

This past year, with injuries and so many moving parts, the Cavs’ offense with LeBron on court had a staggering 118.8 ORtg. With Love at the 5 and without Wade, Crowder, Rose, and IT, it was 122.2. The Warriors this year with Curry, KD, and Klay on court had a 123.3 OTRG for comparison. The all time greatest regular season offense had an ORtg of 115.6 (2017 Warriors).The Spurs in 2014 against the Heat had an ORtg of 120.8

That “iso-ball bs” created the best playoffs offense in NBA history (2017–the year we ran the most ISO) and the 5th best in NBA playoffs history (2016).

Cavs’ ORtings in the playoffs from 2015 to 2018:

2017 vs. Celtics, 128.4
2018 vs. Raptors, 127.3
2016 vs. Hawks, 122.9
2016 vs. Pistons, 120.4
2017 vs. Celtics, 120.4
2017 vs. Raptors, 120.3
2017 vs. Pacers, 119.8
2016 vs. Raptors, 118.5
2017 vs. Warriors, 114.6
2015 vs. Hawks, 114.0
2015 vs. Bulls, 112.3
2015 vs. Celtics, 111.6
2016 vs. Warriors, 109.1
2018 vs. Pacers, 105.8
2015 vs. Warriors, 99.6

In comparison, here are the Warriors’ best offensive series; the Cavs’ offense has actually been more lethal EVEN WITH GSW BOASTING MULTIPLE GENERATIONAL TALENTS AND A “SYSTEM.”

122.2: vs SAS last year
121.3: vs. Cavs last year
117.3
117.1
116.1
116.0 vs Cavs this year
115.8
113.7

Here’s the vaunted Spurs’ system everyone speaks of and the best series they have put together over the last 12 years. We know that an always very good to great defense has been their greatest strength

121.0 vs. Memphis, 2017
120.8 vs. Miami, 2014
117.1
114.4
113.7
113.2
113.1
113.1

In three playoffs, the Cavs have posted THREE DIFFERENT series with a better offense than what the Spurs did in OVER TWELVE years. The Cavs posted EIGHT series with a better ORTG over 3 years than the Spurs’ third best over a 12 year span.

Here’s a list of the best offensive series in NBA history (over the last 44 years at least); the Cavs have 5 of the top 29, i.e., 50% of all Cavs’ playoff series since 2016 began have been in the top 1% of all playoff series played which is goddamn ridiculous. They also have two best ever.

Cavs 2017 vs. Celtics, 128.4
Cavs 2018 vs. Raptors, 127.3
Suns 1995 vs. Blazers, 127.3
Bulls 1992 vs. Miami, 126.7
Lakers 1987 vs. Nuggets, 125.1
Suns 2005 vs. Grizzlies, 124.8
Lakers 1985 vs. Suns, 124.6
Lakers 1988 vs. Mavs, 124.6
Lakers 2010 vs. Suns, 124.2
Magic 1996 vs. Pistons, 123.7
Magic 1996 vs. Hawks, 123.1
Cavs 2016 vs. Hawks, 122.9
Lakers 1986 vs. Spurs, 122.7
Thunder 2016 vs. 122.5
Lakers 1989 vs. Blazers, 122.4
Warriors 2017 vs. Spurs, 122.2
Lakers 1984 vs. Mavs, 121.9
Jazz 1997 vs. Clippers, 121.7
Lakers 1987 vs. Warriors, 121.7
Bulls 1991 vs. Pistons, 121.6
Celtics 1986 vs. Bulls, 121.4
Warriors 2017 vs. Cavs, 121.3
Spurs 2017 vs. Memphis, 121.0
Bulls 1993 vs. Hawks, 121.0
Spurs 2014 vs. Miami, 120.8
Rockets 1995 vs. Jazz, 120.6
Cavs 2016 vs. Pistons, 120.4
Cavs 2017 vs. Raptors, 120.3
Magic 1995 vs. Pacers, 120.2

It was great because we had Lebron and Kyrie; that however does not mean that we couldn't have produced a better offense if Lebron was used more as a cutter and a roll man...because Lebron is better at both than he is at Isolation.

The fact is that Lebron is elite at every single playtype, especially when he is surrounded by such prolific shooters, so we would have produced elite offense regardless of what we ran...it's just that we needed more than that against a team like the Warriors. Playing Iso from the perimeter against them is exactly what they wanted us to do...without Irving at least.

 

[TyGuy]

It was great because we had Lebron and Kyrie; that however does not mean that we couldn't have produced a better offense if Lebron was used more as a cutter and a roll man...because Lebron is better at both than he is at Isolation.

The fact is that Lebron is elite at every single playtype, especially when he is surrounded by such prolific shooters, so we would have produced elite offense regardless of what we ran...it's just that we needed more than that against a team like the Warriors. Playing Iso from the perimeter against them is exactly what they wanted us to do...without Irving at least.

Pretty much everybody is better at cutting though. Cutting is really high efficient offense for everybody. It just doesn't work every time down the floor. If it did, that is all we would run ever.

Isolation is really easy to run, and if you are efficient at it then you are in good hands because you can run it every time down.

LeBron as a roll man is amazing and we only have a short sample to work with.

 

[Cavatt]

It's just defense. The Cavs could not defend Golden State and they would just score too easily.

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

Pretty much everybody is better at cutting though. Cutting is really high efficient offense for everybody. It just doesn't work every time down the floor. If it did, that is all we would run ever.

Isolation is really easy to run, and if you are efficient at it then you are in good hands because you can run it every time down.

LeBron as a roll man is amazing and we only have a short sample to work with.

But Lebron rarely cuts, and when he cuts it works. Why doesn't he cut more? No one can stop him. Fact is, Lebron didn't do the little things. When was the last time we saw Lebron seal a man and score easily on him? When was the last we saw him fucking screen properly and roll hard?

Why can't he do the things that Draymond Green does on offense, just on a completely different level and then add all the iso and the things that he does well to his arsenal? He just didn't play as part of the team as a Cavalier; instead he hijacked the offense.

Our iso offense created nothing for the teammates. It's not a way to run an offense...players are not robots. They need to gain confidence, and you need to have some kind of dynamic offense to give them opportunuties to create for others and themselves...

Basically they only scored on spot ups and cuts. They knew that if they got the ball from Lebron, they had to shoot it. That's terrible. Don't even try to score an hockey assist or have any type of continuity to the offense. Just shoot it...and if you miss, you get that mean look..ENJOY!

Yes, Isolation is easy to run; but that doesn't mean it's the best option, because it's not. GSW/Curry ran tons of isolation offense under Mark Jackson, and they were good, but not nearly good enough. They got to another level once they put their best players in the best position to score as efficiently as possible, eventhough Curry was an excellent Isolation scorer.

Running Isolation against the Warriors didn't work, especially so when our defense was fucking garbage. I saw people praising the team's defense in this year's playoffs, but it was still terrible. Even before the GSW series, we were one of the worst teams in the playoffs on that end.

What do you mean by short sample as a roll man? Didn't quite get you there. Regardless, Lebron can be the playmaker and scorer in the short roll every trip down the court...he can have as much volume as he likes, it depends on how serious the coach and if he believes in that and if he can/wants to convince Lebron to be that kind of players.

We have enough sample size over the years that shows Lebron is unstoppable as a Roll Man. It makes zero sense to me to have Lebron Iso on the perimeter when his shot isn't his best attribute and nowadays when he doesn't have the same first step and explosiveness; instead, you want to have Lebron as closer to the basket as possible and be a scorer/playmaker from there, where he has the highest gravity possible...this would create the most scoring opporunuties for his teammates and the best possible TS% for himself. Lebron's gravity as a PnR Ball Handler from the perimeter isn't what it used to me: 1. Because he doesn't have the same first step 2.Because teams switch so much, and when they do he will settle for an outside shot instead driving...whether he is matched against a guard or a big.

If Lebron bought in and we had a good coach, the Cavs would have been unstoppable on the offensive end, even without Irving... we played down to our absolute floor.