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The Military Thread

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Is CNN is pro-Trump because they employ Jeffrey Lord to come on and say batshit stupid things like Trump is the Martin Luther King of healthcare?

No. Journalists and their guests argue about the merits of both domestic and foreign policy all the time. But they generally don't call for terrorist attacks.

It should also be noted that Nance has been a contributor to Fox News.

So what? I'm criticizing Nance, not MSNBC, for encouraging terrorists to attack a hotel. I'll criticize MSNBC if they don't take some action regarding this, and other networks as well if they choose to have that asshat on in the future and don't grill the shit out of him.
 
No. Journalists and their guests argue about the merits of both domestic and foreign policy all the time. But they generally don't call for terrorist attacks.



So what? I'm criticizing Nance, not MSNBC, for encouraging terrorists to attack a hotel. I'll criticize MSNBC if they don't take some action regarding this, and other networks as well if they choose to have that asshat on in the future and don't grill the shit out of him.

Yeah, except that's not what you did.

Using the opportunity to lecture us all about what side "the press" is on, using this as an example, is pathetic.

Pretending to have some moral highground over the batshit things people like Jeffrey Lord, Sebastian Gorka or KellyAnne Conway have said on air over the last year or so is ridiculous.

To say nothing of the fact you ignored that Nance isn't representative of the networks view on anything, he's a talking head that said something profoundly stupid and hateful on twitter.

I know you're not going to want an argument surrounding Twitter etiquette or making egregiously terrible, hateful takes visible on social media.
 
This is in line with my thinking. A militaristic view of a situation may be different from the political consequence.

And, I don't know what the answer is. Seems like a pretty subjective line on what type of conflict should involve approval instead of direct action.

@The Human Q-Tip - you seem to think this is no big deal. Where do you draw the line on what should involve CiC approval?

I thought I already stated that, but fine. It has to be a bright line, .

So the first line -- which is already a standing order -- is no attacks across borders without Presidential authorization. Washington also gets to decide, at least on the macro level, who our allies are, and if/whether any particular factions on the other side are off limits. Washington decides whether or not our troops in Syria can engage Russian or Syrian units. And it obviously should be consulted regarding overall force levels deployed in a particular theater.

Washington may also set the ROE, though that should be done with a mindset towards leaving as much discretion as possible with the military in-theater. Or perhaps it is better to say that the military command should set the ROE, with Washington only stepping in if it is apparent problems with the ROE are rising to a level of real significance.

Washington also should be consulted before any major military operations in which significant American or civilian casualties are reasonably possible, or when political coordination with the foreign government is required. In other words, if we're planning on participating actively in the liberation of Mosul, there should be civilian consultation.

In terms of permissible weapons, the standard prohibitions against chems/bios applies ( we don't use them, period) and nukes are under the control of the President. And whatever is otherwise contained in the law of war. Other than that, no restrictions.

That's off the top of my head. Probably could think of some more stuff, or refine the verbiage a bit, but that's the basic idea. In general, the rule is that the President decides what the military should do, and the military should decide how to do it.

I was in artillery, and did a lot of fire support coordination with air assets. Target don't just sit there, and there are a ton of factors that affect the most advantageous timing of a particular strike. If you deprive our military of the ability to respond quickly to a changing battlefield, you are eliminating one of the biggest advantages we have. It is our superior battlefield intelligence/observation, and ability to multiply combat power quickly through the use of supporting arms and airlift capability, that really sets us apart from our enemies in a tactical sense.

FDR didn't micromanage the war effort in WW2. And to the extent Churchill did it, the result often was not good.
 
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Kelly to Homeland Security critics: Change the law or 'shut up'

Homeland Security Secretary John Kelly offered a sharp rebuttal to critics of his department on Tuesday, challenging lawmakers who dislike its approach to immigration enforcement to change the law or “shut up.”

Employees at the Department of Homeland Security, he told an audience at George Washington University, “are often ridiculed and insulted by public officials and frequently convicted in the court of public opinion on unfounded allegations testified to by street lawyers and street spokespersons.”

“If lawmakers do not like the laws that we enforce, that we are charged to enforce, that we are sworn to enforce, then they should have the courage and the skill to change those laws,” Kelly said. “Otherwise, they should shut up and support the men and women on the front lines.”

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/04/john-kelly-homeland-security-critics-237329

I like that enough that it's going in my book. That's exactly how separation of powers is supposed to work. There's a famous quote by judge Oliver Wendell Holmes that endorses the same view on separation of powers, but from the judicial perspective:

“If my fellow citizens want to go to Hell I will help them. It’s my job.”
 
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Just want to note that today is the 242nd anniversary of the Shot Heard Round the World -- the battle of Lexington/Concord, and the first blows for liberty.
 
Just want to note that today is the 242nd anniversary of the Shot Heard Round the World -- the battle of Lexington/Concord, and the first blows for liberty.


monopoly_pimpin-206x300.jpg



 
I thought I already stated that, but fine. It has to be a bright line, .

So the first line -- which is already a standing order -- is no attacks across borders without Presidential authorization. Washington also gets to decide, at least on the macro level, who our allies are, and if/whether any particular factions on the other side are off limits. Washington decides whether or not our troops in Syria can engage Russian or Syrian units. And it obviously should be consulted regarding overall force levels deployed in a particular theater.

Washington may also set the ROE, though that should be done with a mindset towards leaving as much discretion as possible with the military in-theater. Or perhaps it is better to say that the military command should set the ROE, with Washington only stepping in if it is apparent problems with the ROE are rising to a level of real significance.

Washington also should be consulted before any major military operations in which significant American or civilian casualties are reasonably possible, or when political coordination with the foreign government is required. In other words, if we're planning on participating actively in the liberation of Mosul, there should be civilian consultation.

In terms of permissible weapons, the standard prohibitions against chems/bios applies ( we don't use them, period) and nukes are under the control of the President. And whatever is otherwise contained in the law of war. Other than that, no restrictions.

That's off the top of my head. Probably could think of some more stuff, or refine the verbiage a bit, but that's the basic idea. In general, the rule is that the President decides what the military should do, and the military should decide how to do it.

I was in artillery, and did a lot of fire support coordination with air assets. Target don't just sit there, and there are a ton of factors that affect the most advantageous timing of a particular strike. If you deprive our military of the ability to respond quickly to a changing battlefield, you are eliminating one of the biggest advantages we have. It is our superior battlefield intelligence/observation, and ability to multiply combat power quickly through the use of supporting arms and airlift capability, that really sets us apart from our enemies in a tactical sense.

FDR didn't micromanage the war effort in WW2. And to the extent Churchill did it, the result often was not good.

I concur with your answer to @Scrote Squad excellent question. I'd note the LBJ Administration also did a lot of micromanaging, during the Vietnam War, with poor results.

And given the nature of this President, who clearly doesn't know shit about foreign policy, or even the difference between Kim Jong Il and Kim Jong Un, I think maybe it is better to keep the current ROE.
 
People sometimes joke about wondering who's side the press is on. Guess the wondering is over, at least with respect to this guy:

MSNBC’s Malcolm Nance Nominates Trump Tower Istanbul for ‘ISIS Suicide Bombing’

http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb...olm-nance-nominates-trump-tower-istanbul-isis

Perhaps the Media Research Center may want to look at the underlying issue that Nance's admittedly poorly worded tweet was attempting to address: Trump's conflict of interests in respect to Turkey''s leadership and his widely questioned congratualatory phone call to Erdogan after his successful takedown of Turkey's democratic institutions:

Could Trump's Financial Ties Have Influenced His Phone Call With Erdogan?

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/04/trump-erdogan-conflict-of-interest/523485/

Also, the wiki article below explains how the project developer and Erdogan have threatened to remove Trump's name from the tower (Trump is simply licensing his name and does not own the property) due to his perceived anti-muslim policies in the U.S. (in case you need a motive for Trump's behavior regarding the recent developments in Turkey):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_Towers_Istanbul
 
Perhaps the Media Research Center may want to look at the underlying issue that Nance's admittedly poorly worded tweet...

"Poorly worded?" Like he just used the wrong words by mistake, and accidentally conveyed a meaning he didn't really intend?

I disagree - i think his wording conveyed exactly what he intended to say.
 
Nance is an idiot.

I think we should leave Trump's numerous business conflicts of interest for another thread.
 
I think we may find that Trump's conflicts of interest will ultimately have a greater impact on U.S foreign and military policy than Malcolm Nance's tweets.
 
I think we may find that Trump's conflicts of interest will ultimately have a greater impact on U.S foreign and military policy than Malcolm Nance's tweets.

This is probably true. We should have a foreign policy thread.
 
I think we should leave Trump's numerous business conflicts of interest for another thread.

Maybe an emoluments thread. Because that is where the shit is most likely to hit the fan even with all the Russia collusion smoke.
 
I think we may find that Trump's conflicts of interest will ultimately have a greater impact on U.S foreign and military policy than Malcolm Nance's tweets.

If you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

Trump is a successful business man with international interests. If you begin from the assumption that his motive is to preserve his business interests (which i think does not make sense), then you can use that to taint anything he does without any actual evidence.

I'd suggest that he has a pretty clear strategy of focusing on one problem at a time in a region. So, he backed off on China for the moment because we need them to help with NK. And he's going to give Turkey a pass for the moment because we need them to help or at least be neutral with respect to the Iran/Syria/Russia axis.
 

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