The Capricious Non partisan Government Arbitrary Action thread.

[AZ_]

"Intelligence sources"

I thought the fake news thread was locked?

Doing damage to our own National Security isn't fake news, nor is it a partisan issue.

Enough is enough, it's becoming boring to even joke about it anymore.

It's sad.

 

[Huber.]

Doing damage to our own National Security isn't fake news, nor is it a partisan issue.

Enough is enough, it's becoming boring to even joke about it anymore.

It's sad.

Damage to our own National Security? Going to need some unnamed sources for that claim.

 

[David.]

I dont think this is what this thread was intended to be.

 

[Huber.]

I dont think this is what this thread was intended to be.

I am still trying to figure out what that exactly is.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Here is the problem with the whole thing, and after reading the decision again, why it isn't based on run-of-the-mill precedent or reasoning :

How can a court ignore an EO that claims it isn't a "Muslim Ban" when POTUS is running around as recently as Thursday calling it a Muslim Ban?

The best I can say is to read the dissent I linked above. The core answer to your question is that the precedent (which I think is correct) says that courts may not "look behind" the reasons offered by the President or Congress on issues of immigration. If they do, that essentially amounts to courts applying a standard of "prove to us that your immigration policy/decision/law is justified/makes sense, or we'll throw it out." And that essentially puts the courts in the position of deciding what is wise policy rather than what is constitutional. In other words, their job is to determine if the policy itself is constitutional, not the reasons for the policy.

Perhaps Shapiro's most important point was that the judge did not base his decision on a claim that Trump exceeded the authority granted to him by Congress. It was based on a acclaim that his action was unconstitutional.

What the court did is legally indistinguishable from Congress passing a law stopping all new visas, and a court tossing that out on the grounds that it believes that Congress was motivated by anti-Muslim sentiment. In essence, that puts the courts squarely in charge of immigration policy. If you can't convince the courts that your reason for limiting immigration is justified, then you have to let in everyone. This case (if upheld) would establish a precedent enabling those exact types of rulings.

The dissent I linked did an excellent job of discussion how the Supreme Court, and even Circuit courts, have traditionally deferred to the justifications offered by the executive, and why such deference is necessary.

 

[-Akronite-]

Damage to our own National Security? Going to need some unnamed sources for that claim.

I'm pretty sure I saw something about it in a Trump tweet based off something Sean Hannity said a couple hours before.

LET'S FUCKING WRECK THIS THREAD

 

[David.]

I am still trying to figure out what that exactly is.

I take it as a thread that isnt obviously being used just to bash trump or support him on underdeveloped things posted on twitter, and more immature bickering like the other 10 threads that included nothing but, and were subsequently shut down.

We're looking at actual policy and discussing it, right @Tornicade ?

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

well for starters there was three specific individuals cited in the state of Hawaii's case Shapiro only referenced one and misrepresented that citation as well

What, specifically, did Shapiro misrepresent with respect to the one specific individual he cited?

Also, with respect to Shapiro's article, you actually said:

....the article posted misrepresented several parts of the case needless to support it conclusions in spectacular fashion

So what were the other "parts" of the case that Shapiro misrepresented?

 

[CleveRocks]

Fyi, I read the dissent.. Q is right. If you read the dissent you will see in detail why the ruling is bad, and I think this will be the position of SCOTUS.

In essence, it boils down to the function of he executive branch.. the entire reason the executive was created was to act quickly when needed, in terms of enforcement of law, foreign policy and National safety.. a pure democracy cannot act quickly ( because it needs full debate to be effective ).. Requiring judicial review of what is essentially a policy decision, extinguishes the underlying logic of the executive at all...

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Fyi, I read the dissent.. Q is right. If you read the dissent you will see in detail why the ruling is bad, and I think this will be the position of SCOTUS.

In essence, it boils down to the function of he executive branch.. the entire reason the executive was created was to act quickly when needed, in terms of enforcement of law, foreign policy and National safety.. a pure democracy cannot act quickly ( because it needs full debate to be effective ).. Requiring judicial review of what is essentially a policy decision, extinguishes the underlying logic of the executive at all...

All true. But the really scary thing is that it also would permit courts to use perceived motive as precedent to strike down facially neutral foreign policy/immigration laws passed by Congress as well. And that's because the case wasn't based on Trump exceeding his statutory authority, but on the policy itself being unconstitutional.

Can Congress pass a law limiting immigration from certain countries, yes, or no? Or only if it manages to convince judges that it's a good idea?

This is one case where you'd love to see Scalia at oral argument, because he'd run out hypothetical after hypothetical, and absolutely blister that lower court order.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Press Releases

GOP Senators Call on Sec. Tillerson to Investigate State Department Meddling[/paste:font]
Mar 14 2017

WASHINGTON - Sen. Mike Lee (R-UT) and a group of Senators called on Secretary of State Rex W. Tillerson today to immediately investigate how US funds are being used by the State Department and the United States Agency for International Development (USAID) to support left-of-center political groups and impress left-leaning policies on sovereign nations, regardless of their desire for self-determination. One such group is USAID multi-grant recipient, the George Soros-backed Open Society Foundations. Sen. Lee and his colleagues believe this behavior is unacceptable and must be halted immediately.

Sens. Inhofe (R-OK), Tillis (R-NC), Cruz (R-TX), Perdue (R-GA), and Cassidy (R-LA) join in signing the letter.

“Over the past few months, elected officials and political leaders of foreign nations have been coming to me with disappointing news and reports of US activity in their respective countries. This includes reports of diplomats playing political favorites, USAID funds supporting extreme and sometimes violent political activists, and the US Government working to marginalize the moderates and conservatives in leadership roles,” Sen. Lee said. “This sort of political favoritism from our missions around the world is unacceptable and endangers our bilateral relationships.”

The letter calls on Secretary Tillerson to, “…investigate all funds associated with promoting democracy and governance and review the programs, accounts, and multiplicity of US entities involved in such activities. We must … review how all our tax dollars are being utilized in order to halt activities that are fomenting political unrest, disrespecting national sovereignty and civil society, and ultimately undermine our attempts to build beneficial international relationships.”

The most damaging consequence of the United States weighing in so heavily on one side of the political spectrum abroad is that we ostracize many foreign citizens who have traditionally supported strong relations with the United States. Such division allows aggressive opportunists like Russia space to operate and cause further damage.

Sen. Lee is hopeful Secretary Tillerson acts quickly on this issue and looks forward to continuing to work with him in the future.

https://www.lee.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/press-releases?ID=B5BD5596-25C8-495F-A8B1-A4D248649C04

 

[Tornicade]

Press Releases

GOP Senators Call on Sec. Tillerson to Investigate State Department Meddling[/paste:font]
Mar 14 2017

WASHINGTON - Sen. Mike Lee (R-UT) and a group of Senators called on Secretary of State Rex W. Tillerson today to immediately investigate how US funds are being used by the State Department and the United States Agency for International Development (USAID) to support left-of-center political groups and impress left-leaning policies on sovereign nations, regardless of their desire for self-determination. One such group is USAID multi-grant recipient, the George Soros-backed Open Society Foundations. Sen. Lee and his colleagues believe this behavior is unacceptable and must be halted immediately.

Sens. Inhofe (R-OK), Tillis (R-NC), Cruz (R-TX), Perdue (R-GA), and Cassidy (R-LA) join in signing the letter.

“Over the past few months, elected officials and political leaders of foreign nations have been coming to me with disappointing news and reports of US activity in their respective countries. This includes reports of diplomats playing political favorites, USAID funds supporting extreme and sometimes violent political activists, and the US Government working to marginalize the moderates and conservatives in leadership roles,” Sen. Lee said. “This sort of political favoritism from our missions around the world is unacceptable and endangers our bilateral relationships.”

The letter calls on Secretary Tillerson to, “…investigate all funds associated with promoting democracy and governance and review the programs, accounts, and multiplicity of US entities involved in such activities. We must … review how all our tax dollars are being utilized in order to halt activities that are fomenting political unrest, disrespecting national sovereignty and civil society, and ultimately undermine our attempts to build beneficial international relationships.”

The most damaging consequence of the United States weighing in so heavily on one side of the political spectrum abroad is that we ostracize many foreign citizens who have traditionally supported strong relations with the United States. Such division allows aggressive opportunists like Russia space to operate and cause further damage.

Sen. Lee is hopeful Secretary Tillerson acts quickly on this issue and looks forward to continuing to work with him in the future.

https://www.lee.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/press-releases?ID=B5BD5596-25C8-495F-A8B1-A4D248649C04

wow. perhaps we should send them that quiz we took as a litmus test for government funding !

 

[Tornicade]

Executive Order on March 13, 2017
Presidential Executive Order on a Comprehensive Plan for Reorganizing the Executive Branch
Presidential Executive Order on a Comprehensive Plan for Reorganizing the Executive Branch
EXECUTIVE ORDER

- - - - - - -

COMPREHENSIVE PLAN FOR REORGANIZING THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH

By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, it is hereby ordered as follows:

Section 1. Purpose. This order is intended to improve the efficiency, effectiveness, and accountability of the executive branch by directing the Director of the Office of Management and Budget (Director) to propose a plan to reorganize governmental functions and eliminate unnecessary agencies (as defined in section 551(1) of title 5, United States Code), components of agencies, and agency programs.

Sec. 2. Proposed Plan to Improve the Efficiency, Effectiveness, and Accountability of Federal Agencies, Including, as Appropriate, to Eliminate or Reorganize Unnecessary or Redundant Federal Agencies. (a) Within 180 days of the date of this order, the head of each agency shall submit to the Director a proposed plan to reorganize the agency, if appropriate, in order to improve the efficiency, effectiveness, and accountability of that agency.

(b) The Director shall publish a notice in the Federal Register inviting the public to suggest improvements in the organization and functioning of the executive branch and shall consider the suggestions when formulating the proposed plan described in subsection (c) of this section.

(c) Within 180 days after the closing date for the submission of suggestions pursuant to subsection (b) of this section, the Director shall submit to the President a proposed plan to reorganize the executive branch in order to improve the efficiency, effectiveness, and accountability of agencies. The proposed plan shall include, as appropriate, recommendations to eliminate unnecessary agencies, components of agencies, and agency programs, and to merge functions. The proposed plan shall include recommendations for any legislation or administrative measures necessary to achieve the proposed reorganization.

(d) In developing the proposed plan described in subsection (c) of this section, the Director shall consider, in addition to any other relevant factors:

(i) whether some or all of the functions of an agency, a component, or a program are appropriate for the Federal Government or would be better left to State or local governments or to the private sector through free enterprise;

(ii) whether some or all of the functions of an agency, a component, or a program are redundant, including with those of another agency, component, or program;

(iii) whether certain administrative capabilities necessary for operating an agency, a component, or a program are redundant with those of another agency, component, or program;

(iv) whether the costs of continuing to operate an agency, a component, or a program are justified by the public benefits it provides; and

(v) the costs of shutting down or merging agencies, components, or programs, including the costs of addressing the equities of affected agency staff.

(e) In developing the proposed plan described in subsection (c) of this section, the Director shall consult with the head of each agency and, consistent with applicable law, with persons or entities outside the Federal Government with relevant expertise in organizational structure and management.

Sec. 3. General Provisions. (a) Nothing in this order shall be construed to impair or otherwise affect:

(i) the authority granted by law to an executive department or agency, or the head thereof; or

(ii) the functions of the Director relating to budgetary, administrative, or legislative proposals.

(b) This order shall be implemented consistent with applicable law and subject to the availability of appropriations.

(c) This order is not intended to, and does not, create any right or benefit, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law or in equity by any party against the United States, its departments, agencies, or entities, its officers, employees, or agents, or any other person.

DONALD J. TRUMP

THE WHITE HOUSE,
March 13, 2017.

 

[Tornicade]

Text of a Letter from the President to the Speaker of the House of Representatives
March 16, 2017

Dear Mr. Speaker:

I ask the Congress to consider the enclosed appropriations request for Fiscal Year (FY) 2017. The request includes an additional $30 billion for the Department of Defense (DOD) to rebuild the U.S. Armed Forces and accelerate the campaign to defeat the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS), and an additional $3 billion for the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) for urgent border protection activities.

This appropriations request would provide $24.9 billion in the DOD base budget for urgent warfighting readiness needs and to begin a sustained effort to rebuild the U.S. Armed Forces. The request seeks to address critical budget shortfalls in personnel, training, maintenance, equipment, munitions, modernization, and infrastructure investment. It represents a critical first step in investing in a larger, more ready, and more capable military force.

The request also includes $5.1 billion in the Overseas Contingency Operations budget for DOD to accelerate the campaign to defeat ISIS and support Operation Freedom's Sentinel in Afghanistan. This request would enable DOD to pursue a comprehensive strategy to end the threat ISIS poses to the United States.

In addition, this appropriations request would provide an additional $3 billion for DHS implementation of my executive orders on border security and immigration enforcement. The request would fund efforts to plan, design, and construct a physical wall along the southern border, and make other critical investments in tactical border infrastructure and technology. The request also proposes funding to increase immigration detention capacity, which is necessary to ensure the removal of illegal aliens from the United States. Finally, the request funds new recruiting capacity at DHS so that it may hire additional immigration law enforcement officers and agents.

In conjunction with this request, I recommend that the Congress enact non-defense discretionary reductions of $18 billion in FY 2017, which would fully offset the amounts proposed for DHS and would offset half of the amounts proposed for DOD.

The details of this proposal are set forth in the enclosed letter from the Director of the Office of Management and Budget.



Sincerely,

DONALD J. TRUMP

 

[Tornicade]

Discretionary spending is about 1.1 trillion a year. 54% of that is allocated for military spending.