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The Trump Administration (just Trump) Thread

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by The Human Q-Tip, May 31, 2017.

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  1. MediumBaller

    MediumBaller NBA Starter

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    These immigrants favor big government at much higher rates than the population at large. In order to be an attractive party to them the Republican Party would have to completely change their stances. Sure, if they were "nicer" to immigrants they might pick up a few more votes, but as long as they're the party of small government they're not going to attract many of them.
     
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  2. Jack Brickman

    Jack Brickman Preview Team

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    You do realize that a lot of these immigrants hold strongly conservative social views, right? You could very easily sway them to vote Republican if the Republican party weren't constantly trying to tear their families apart and making racially insensitive comments about their work ethics and countries of origin.

    @gourimoko has written dozens of posts about this. Feel free to go find them.
     
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  3. gourimoko

    gourimoko Fighting the good fight!

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    How about starting with how/why your idea of "small government" makes more sense than the alternative. Because, frankly, it doesn't make sense to me, nor would it make the most sense to most Norwegians, FWIW. But as @Jack Brickman pointed out, if you appealed to their socially conservative roots, that might be a good start.
     
  4. MediumBaller

    MediumBaller NBA Starter

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    "When it comes to the size of government, Hispanics are more likely than the general public to say they would rather have a bigger government providing more services than a smaller government with fewer services. Some 75% of Hispanics say this, while 19% say they would rather have a smaller government with fewer services. By contrast, just 41% of the general U.S. public say they want a bigger government, while nearly half (48%) say they want a smaller government.

    Support for a larger government is greatest among immigrant Latinos. More than eight-in-ten (81%) say they would rather have a bigger government with more services than a smaller government with fewer services. The share that wants a bigger government falls to 72% among second-generation Hispanics and 58% among third-generation Hispanics."

    http://www.pewhispanic.org/2012/04/04/v-politics-values-and-religion/?src=prc-number

    So if conservatives start being "nicer" to them are they going to start favoring small government?
     
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  5. Jack Brickman

    Jack Brickman Preview Team

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    Personally, I think the idea that the current Republican Party is in favor of small government is bullshit to begin with. They say they are, but ultimately they're in favor of a larger government or government role on issues they support (like banning abortion and marijuana and constantly funneling unnecessary amounts of money into the military) and against it on issues they oppose. They're no different than the Democrats. They just want big government on different issues.

    It's nothing more than a lie they sell to their base.
     
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  6. gourimoko

    gourimoko Fighting the good fight!

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    Really?

    ...???

    FWIW, if the economy doesn't grow as the Republicans claim it will, then the tax plan could potentially lead to a very harsh period of austerity within the next 10 years.
     
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  7. gourimoko

    gourimoko Fighting the good fight!

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    Do you think Hispanic people innately believe in "large government?"

    Try making a compelling argument as to why your idea of "small government" is better than what they perceive to be a "larger government."
     
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  8. OptimusPrime

    OptimusPrime Back in 2002

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    Why don't "conservatives" actually reduce the size of government then? These vague questions in polls mean nothing. Ask the typical idiot American about specific issues and see if they really want smaller government. Should we have "free" health care? Yes? More government. Should we tax imported goods to make domestic goods more competitive? Yes? More government. Should we build a wall to keep the Mexicans out? Yes? More government.
     
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  9. King Stannis

    King Stannis The One True King

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    Good luck getting in. Norway has strict immigration laws.

    They don’t want uneducated, racist gun nuts coming into their country from dritt hullen like the US.
     
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  10. MediumBaller

    MediumBaller NBA Starter

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    I'm not arguing that small government is better, or that Hispanics should favor small government, or anything like that. That's a different discussion. My argument is that I don't believe that the GOP's rhetoric toward Hispanics is the main reason why they vote overwhelmingly democrat. If the republicans presented similar policies in a much nicer way toward Hispanics I don't believe that it would make a discernible difference.
     
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  11. gourimoko

    gourimoko Fighting the good fight!

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    Oh.. okay.

    So you don't think the GOP's poor performance among Latinos has anything to do with their rhetoric?

    In 2004, G.W. Bush garnered 40% of the Latino vote. No one has come close from the GOP since; however, that degree of support cannot simply be discounted, right?

    Moreover, your assertion seems to suggest, again, that Latinos are voting for Democrats because of some innate reason? Unless I'm misunderstanding you?
     
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    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
  12. The Human Q-Tip

    The Human Q-Tip War is Hell

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    You can bring over a spouse and children before becoming a citizen, as soon as you get your green card.

    Further, the vast majority of permanent residents will become citizens, and therefore be eligible to bring over extended family members either directly or indirect.. in 2015, there were approximately 43.3 million immigrants in the United States. Of that number, 20.7 million were already citizens. That remaining 22.6 million of non-citizens includes 1.7 temporary immigrants not eligible for citizenship, and 11.4 million illegals also not eligible. Which means that only 9.5 million are permanent residents who are not (yet) citizens. Given that it take 5-7 years to become a citizen, and considering how many new permanent residents we get each year, that means approximately 6 million of that number aren't even eligible to become citizens.

    So out of a total of perhaps 24 million people who are permanent residents eligible for citizenship, 20.7 million have already become citizens.

    https://www.migrationpolicy.org/art...tics-immigrants-and-immigration-united-states
     
  13. MediumBaller

    MediumBaller NBA Starter

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    Because they prefer their policies, particularly on immigration. The GOP is going to have to change some of their policies soon if they want to remain relevant as a party, imo.
     
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  14. gourimoko

    gourimoko Fighting the good fight!

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    I think we're talking past one another...

    The point I'm making is that, the GOP should try to explain why these policies make sense for everyday Americans, including Latinos. Otherwise, for many people, including myself, it doesn't make much sense.
     
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  15. Jack Brickman

    Jack Brickman Preview Team

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    Shockingly, immigration is the most important issue for immigrants. If the GOP weren’t so vehemently anti-immigrant, with racist undertones to boot, they’d almost certainly be able to sway those immigrants on other issues.
     
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