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The Walking Dead

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Jesus will have nothing to do with that scenario besides maybe tattling and telling Rick and Michonne.

Maggie in the comics has a similar vendetta, and her relationship with Rick was pretty strained at right around this point, so that all adds up. Surprised to see Daryl in there, although he and Rick were shown to have disagreements all season long as well.

Doubt anything major will come of it. It's just about the only cliffhanger they could leave us with this summer.

Episode was pretty good though - as was this entire half season. Excited to see where we go after the time jump.
 
Jesus will have nothing to do with that scenario besides maybe tattling and telling Rick and Michonne.

Maggie in the comics has a similar vendetta, and her relationship with Rick was pretty strained at right around this point, so that all adds up. Surprised to see Daryl in there, although he and Rick were shown to have disagreements all season long as well.

Doubt anything major will come of it. It's just about the only cliffhanger they could leave us with this summer.

Episode was pretty good though - as was this entire half season. Excited to see where we go after the time jump.

Good point, and interesting note on the comics. So this is pretty much in line. Makes me agree it probably won't come to much, and I definitely agree it's the only cliffhanger they really could have left for us.

Still something to keep an eye on. Kind of glad JDM will be staying with the show (I assume?), too. Very talented actor. And while Negan was hit-or-miss as a full fledged villain, I think he may have more potential on the show as something...else. Not as a protagonist per se obviously, but we'll see.
 
Jesus will have nothing to do with that scenario besides maybe tattling and telling Rick and Michonne.

Maggie in the comics has a similar vendetta, and her relationship with Rick was pretty strained at right around this point, so that all adds up. Surprised to see Daryl in there, although he and Rick were shown to have disagreements all season long as well.

Doubt anything major will come of it. It's just about the only cliffhanger they could leave us with this summer.

Episode was pretty good though - as was this entire half season. Excited to see where we go after the time jump.

I agree that the last half of the season was good. Absolutely hated sparing Negan at the end -- made zero sense. There was no "turn" by Negan, no promise to "be better". Instead, Rick apparently thinks their relatively primitive community can reliably keep Negan imprisoned forever, without him escaping or being rescued, and without him seeking revenge on the community that 1) defeated him, and 2) planned on keeping him locked up forever.

Rick's stupidity should be rewarded with Negan escaping and slitting the throats of Michonne and Judith.
 
I don't agree at all. He didn't save his life because Negan "promised" anything. He did it to use him as an example, justice over revenge (we can have a capital punishment argument in the "liberal echo chamber" that is the politics forum, if we want). I see no reason why Rick shouldn't think they can't keep one man imprisoned. :chuckle: It's a TV show so we all know that's not how it's going to go, but I see no reason for Rick to think otherwise. They even have a jail cell for him already.

Just killing Negan would have been status quo, more bloodshed, villain gets killed, the way we have seen this story end a dozen times over. Meh. Glad they followed the comics. Killing Negan was the easy way out, both for Rick and for the show writers. Now I'm guessing viewers will be conflicted on this, and that's okay. If it were me in Rick's shoes I probably even would have killed Negan. That's why I find this more interesting, personally.
 
I don't agree at all. He didn't save his life because Negan "promised" anything. He did it to use him as an example, justice over revenge (we can have a capital punishment argument in the "liberal echo chamber" that is the politics forum, if we want).

Except the motive isn't just "revenge". It's preventing a very dangerous, murderous guy from potentially killing again. It's also justice. And to the extent Rick wanted to send a message of "a new way forward", the basic fact that he essentially pardoned all the surviving Saviors is much bigger than keeping a guy locked up forever.

I see no reason why Rick shouldn't think they can't keep one man imprisoned. :chuckle: It's a TV show so we all know that's not how it's going to go, but I see no reason for Rick to think otherwise. They even have a jail cell for him already.

Because there isn't such a thing as a full-time, real prison, with full-time, real guards in that world. Heck, guys even escape from real prisons in the real world. those. Here, they're just going to lock him up in some make-shift room, when dozens of his former loyalists around. The idea that he can be safely held indefinitely is just...dumb.

Just killing Negan would have been status quo, more bloodshed, villain gets killed, the way we have seen this story end a dozen times over. Meh. Glad they followed the comics. Killing Negan was the easy way out, both for Rick and for the show writers. Now I'm guessing viewers will be conflicted on this, and that's okay. If it were me in Rick's shoes I probably even would have killed Negan. That's why I find this more interesting, personally.

That's basically is saying "yeah, it is dumb and doesn't make any sense, but it will probably make for more interesting stories moving forward, so that's fine."
 
Except the motive isn't just "revenge". It's preventing a very dangerous, murderous guy from potentially killing again. It's also justice. And to the extent Rick wanted to send a message of "a new way forward", the basic fact that he essentially pardoned all the surviving Saviors is much bigger than keeping a guy locked up forever.



Because there isn't such a thing as a full-time, real prison, with full-time, real guards in that world. Heck, guys even escape from real prisons in the real world. those. Here, they're just going to lock him up in some make-shift room, when dozens of his former loyalists around. The idea that he can be safely held indefinitely is just...dumb.



That's basically is saying "yeah, it is dumb and doesn't make any sense, but it will probably make for more interesting stories moving forward, so that's fine."

No, it’s me saying I myself would probably be caught up in wanting revenge and bloodshed and wrath, so it’s understandable- but the show is speaking against that. Which is also understandable. And I like that route better.

Why is it hard to believe Negan will have guards? :chuckle: c’mon. This is a stretch. Like I said, you’re right killing Negan would be the easy way out, no risk it’s over for good. But I clearly see why he didn’t, too. And I prefer it. I guess we kind of agree in the end, it may not be the smart or pragmatic thing to do. But neither was Ned Stark confronting Cersei. :chuckle: All these guys want to be so righteous!

Anyway, I’d be surprised if any storyline involving Negan loyalists freeing him plays out. That would be lame. I think his war plotline is truly over, even if the character lives on.
 
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Why is it hard to believe Negan will have guards? :chuckle: c’mon. This is a stretch.

There's no real prison. There's no real, professional guards on duty 24/7, nor can they waste the manpower on having that. It's basically just locking a guy up. The idea that he won't/couldn't escape seems ridiculous to me -- especially when you consider the potential for loyalists.

Anyway, I’d be surprised if any storyline involving Negan loyalists freeing him plays out. That would be lame. I think his war plotline is truly over, even if the character lives on.

Maybe they won't have it happen that way. That doesn't make what Rick did seem any more credible to me.
 
There's no real prison. There's no real, professional guards on duty 24/7, nor can they waste the manpower on having that. It's basically just locking a guy up. The idea that he won't/couldn't escape seems ridiculous to me -- especially when you consider the potential for loyalists.



Maybe they won't have it happen that way. That doesn't make what Rick did seem any more credible to me.

Eh, like I said, just offing him would be the pragmatic thing to do. No disagreement there, if that’s how you want to look at it....

Don’t really see it as lacking credibility. They’ve been building to this moment all season. We have a very clear explanation for why he did it. Doesn’t mean we all have to agree or even think it’s the smartest move.

By the way, using your logic shouldnt killing all the Saviors be the smart thing to do? Arent they dumb for not doing so? And why cant they “waste” manpower on having a prison guard?
 
Eh, like I said, just offing him would be the pragmatic thing to do. No disagreement there, if that’s how you want to look at it....

Don’t really see it as lacking credibility. They’ve been building to this moment all season. We have a very clear explanation for why he did it. Doesn’t mean we all have to agree or even think it’s the smartest move.

But his explanation, on its own terms, is crappy. "Here, we're going to lock you up to rot, for the entire rest of your life, to show how much we believe in fresh starts moving forward." It's absurd. Whatever it was he wanted to demonstrate was done with pardoning the lower-level Saviors.

By the way, using your logic shouldnt killing all the Saviors be the smart thing to do? Arent they dumb for not doing so? And why cant they “waste” manpower on having a prison guard?

No. First, there is at least an argument that those people were all just intimidated by Negan, and might be better people if he wasn't in charge. Negan, on the other hand, was the HMFIC, and he's the guy who made the Saviors what they were. No excuse of "just following orders" for him.

Second, the other Saviors are supposed to all work going forward, along with everyone else, to build a better community. They are all supposed to be productive under the theory that larger communities are stronger communities. Negan will (supposedly) be locked up in a room for the rest of his life. he will be nothing more than a permanent drain on resources, contributing absolutely nothing.
 
But his explanation, on its own terms, is crappy. "Here, we're going to lock you up to rot, for the entire rest of your life, to show how much we believe in fresh starts moving forward." It's absurd. Whatever it was he wanted to demonstrate was done with pardoning the lower-level Saviors.



No. First, there is at least an argument that those people were all just intimidated by Negan, and might be better people if he wasn't in charge. Negan, on the other hand, was the HMFIC, and he's the guy who made the Saviors what they were. No excuse of "just following orders" for him.

Second, the other Saviors are supposed to all work going forward, along with everyone else, to build a better community. They are all supposed to be productive under the theory that larger communities are stronger communities. Negan will (supposedly) be locked up in a room for the rest of his life. he will be nothing more than a permanent drain on resources, contributing absolutely nothing.

Hmm, I don't see it. Plenty of the Saviors are shown to be terrible people, although plenty are shown to be decent as well. So, on one hand, we are to fear that the Saviors will rise up and free Negan so we are better off killing him. On the other, they are fine to be left alive and are supposed to "work" going forward building this new tomorrow. Kind of contradictory. I'm not sure killing a guy instead of taking him prisoner in order to prevent a "drain" on resources is in line with the message they wanted to send, but certainly, very pragmatic viewpoint as always.

Either way, reading the showrunners views on it pretty much confirmed what I thought. They wanted something different and unexpected (for people who didn't read the comic anyways). Which is funny since they kind of hit us over the head with this all season, it was pretty predictable if anyone was paying attention. But I get that they wanted to send a better message in the end, that part I do totally get. Even if the "smart" thing to do for Rick would be to just kill Negan. Just another argument that'll go in circles because nobody ever gives any ground. :chuckle: We can agree that killing Negan would have certainly solved most of their problems with little risk going forward and leave it at that.
 
So now Morgan meets the crew from Fear the Walking Dead. Either Morgan is a really fast walker (runner) or the Fear crew went way east.

Let me guess the next plot...the group meets some shady people. Strand schemes for the benefit of his own self-interests, that falls through, and someone in the group has to save him?
 
So now Morgan meets the crew from Fear the Walking Dead. Either Morgan is a really fast walker (runner) or the Fear crew went way east.

Let me guess the next plot...the group meets some shady people. Strand schemes for the benefit of his own self-interests, that falls through, and someone in the group has to save him?

Surprisingly, the Fear the Walking Dead premier was very good. Great opening scene - basically just a monologue by a brand new character. More western-themed that Mexico-themed.
 
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The Eugene heel turn on the Saviors felt cheap to me. Negan and the Saviors gave him a clear role and purpose that he seemed to appreciate. And he’s always been such a coward, yet out of nowhere he decides to risk his ass with a plan that could so damn easily get exposed before it is seen through? Really?

On top of that, if he had planned this before Daryl and Rosita kidnapped him then why wouldn’t he have filled them in? He could have let them know what he was doing and it would have been his best way to try and escape their clutches to go back and finish his plan. As it went, he just got lucky with his opportunity to escape and head back.

And if he hatched this plan AFTER getting back from his kidnapping, that makes even less sense. Because that’s directly after Rosita disrespected the hell out of him, threatened his life, and made it clear that he was dead to the group.

That whole thing was very lame to me.
 
The Eugene heel turn on the Saviors felt cheap to me. Negan and the Saviors gave him a clear role and purpose that he seemed to appreciate. And he’s always been such a coward, yet out of nowhere he decides to risk his ass with a plan that could so damn easily get exposed before it is seen through? Really?

On top of that, if he had planned this before Daryl and Rosita kidnapped him then why wouldn’t he have filled them in? He could have let them know what he was doing and it would have been his best way to try and escape their clutches to go back and finish his plan. As it went, he just got lucky with his opportunity to escape and head back.

And if he hatched this plan AFTER getting back from his kidnapping, that makes even less sense. Because that’s directly after Rosita disrespected the hell out of him, threatened his life, and made it clear that he was dead to the group.

That whole thing was very lame to me.

Specifically said after. Rosita’s words helped him decide to “do something with his pathetic life.” Character development and all that.

Wasn’t great, but it was satisfying enough for me.
 
On top of that, if he had planned this before Daryl and Rosita kidnapped him then why wouldn’t he have filled them in? He could have let them know what he was doing and it would have been his best way to try and escape their clutches to go back and finish his plan. As it went, he just got lucky with his opportunity to escape and head back.

I agree generally with the criticism -- all it would have taken was one person to test fire their weapon, and the whole plan would have...blown up in Eugene's face. :chuckle:

However, the reason he didn't tell Daryl and Rosita is that they very likely would not have believed him. They'd have assumed he'd just go back and screw them, so they would not have risked letting him go.

And if he hatched this plan AFTER getting back from his kidnapping, that makes even less sense. Because that’s directly after Rosita disrespected the hell out of him, threatened his life, and made it clear that he was dead to the group.

That whole thing was very lame to me.

My sense was that her comment that every single person who died after the Saviors escaped the Sanctuary was because of him really got to him morally. That was what caused him to develop a spine.

My whole issue with the plan was that it was much too easily exposed, and if it was, he would have been right there for Negan to bash into hamburger. The more "Eugene" move would have been to do the same thing, but then come up with an excuse for why he had to stay behind, and then flee before the Saviors come back if things went wrong.

Now, I will say that him retaining one gun with rounds that did work may have been his plan for survival. If his deceit is uncovered, he'd just try to shoot and kill Negan with that gun. That might explain why he insisted on being so close to Negan. But that's a ballsy move for a mulletted yellow-belly like Eugene.
 

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