The Windhorst Tracker - (Shaq for Ben and Sasha?)

[Wine and Gold]

Of course, without knowing what deals were available, we can't say what he did or didn't blew.

But you can't really convince me that the team is better off now, than it was 48 hours ago.... i.e that we are better with Wally Szczerbiak (who expires and leaves at the end of the year), than we would be with some of the long term pieces who had been mentioned over the past few months (whether it was Amare, RJ, VC, Gforce, Camby, Salmons, Shaq, etc.) I would have even thought that taking a bad contract and a high draft pick or developing prospect, would have put us in a much better position to pick up a Bosh/Amare type in a trade next year.

Maybe none of these deals ever materialized, and maybe Ferry never had a choice....but that doesn't change the fact that from a fans perspective it's damn disappointing. Without knowing what deals were available, it looks like we've missed an opportunity.

~Lyuokdea

And that sums it up ..out of frustration we might want to play the blame game ...but the fact is WE DID have an opportunity to possibly help our team out with this expiring contract, and we weren't able to. That's dissapointing as HELL to me, to Ferry, to every fan out there.

But, that's just the way things fall sometimes. He was on the phone trying to make some kind of deal almost every waking hour the last four days. You don't have Mo Williams type outcomes to trades every time you step to the plate as a GM. Standing pat beats making a deal that blows uop in our face, that's always another way to look at it.

A person is saying Ferry gambled with the asset, he could have traded him for something earler on in the process, but didn't because he gambled that he could get more later .......every decision he makes is a calculated risk, and gamble. That's the nature of the beast. Does a GM sometimes turn down a trade option, in hopes that he may have a better option down the road ...all the time. Did it happen during this trade period just concluded ?

Honestly, no deal I've head of didn't come with some stipulation that turned us away. I went into today saying that, of the talks we had going on ...either the teams we were dealing with needed to concede on their stances that they had taken up til now, or we would have to. If they or we didn't, then no deal would get made. And from what I know, that's exactly what ended up happening. We never found a match, and yes ...I'm really dissapointed. But, doesn't mean I'm dissapointed in Ferry, just that we couldn't find the match.

I seriously hope we can find a vet big via free agency. If we could it would make me feel much much better than I do now.

 

[Zone]

How do you know Ferry didn't call New Orleans and OKC after that trade fell apart? I know for a fact we acquired Flip Murray a few trade deadlines ago because another deal fell through for the Sonics, hence we nabbed a starting guard for our playoff run for pennies on the dollar. Ferry made the call that time, and there is no proof he didn't at least try to do the same this time.

All the posters who lived on RCF for the past 12 hours straight must feel tremendous dissapointment right now, mostly because you spent the whole day waiting for the big payoff. I pretty much missed the emotional rollercoaster because of work, so I can have a clear head about being patient for the details. Go ahead and be angry, but let's not make any assumptions about who Ferry didn't call until we get proof.

He may have called them, but what could he have possibly not liked about trading Snow + DJack for Wilcox. I am not going to believe that OKC liked a straight expiring contract in Malik Rose more than they would have liked Snow (same size expiring) + DJack (decent looking young big).

How does anyone know Ferry didn't call Presti and have that exact deal of Snow/DJ for Wilcox lined up, only to have Dan Gilbert say: "OK, so I'm going to lose over $10 million by trading Snow (not to mention a VERY cheap asset in DJ) for Chris FRICKING Wilcox?"?

 

[Mdog1]

How does anyone know Ferry didn't call Presti and have that exact deal of Snow/DJ for Wilcox lined up, only to have Dan Gilbert say: "OK, so I'm going to lose over $10 million by trading Snow (not to mention a VERY cheap asset in DJ) for Chris FRICKING Wilcox?"?

But to say that he loses 10 million in Snow, then to ignore that the team would with Wally expiring save 26 million dollars next year.

 

[Zone]

A person is saying Ferry gambled with the asset, he could have traded him for something earler on in the process, but didn't because he gambled that he could get more later .......every decision he makes is a calculated risk, and gamble. That's the nature of the beast. Does a GM sometimes turn down a trade option, in hopes that he may have a better option down the road ...all the time. Did it happen during this trade period just concluded ?

I think part of the gamble is that we might be in a better situation next year with Ben's expiring (if we still have it heading into the deadline), depending on how Ferry played his cards with other teams/GM's while saying all along that he'd be happy to stand pat. Part of me thinks that some teams never bought into the fact that Ferry would do so. Now they know, and I'd hope that they'd learn from this experience.

 

[-Akronite-]

I wish Sacramento didn't find a suitor for Brad Miller, otherwise we'd be all over Ferry's nuts right now.

 

[Silky Smooth]

And that sums it up ..out of frustration we might want to play the blame game ...but the fact is WE DID have an opportunity to possibly help our team out with this expiring contract, and we weren't able to. That's dissapointing as HELL to me, to Ferry, to every fan out there.

But, that's just the way things fall sometimes. He was on the phone trying to make some kind of deal almost every waking hour the last four days. You don't have Mo Williams type outcomes to trades every time you step to the plate as a GM. Standing pat beats making a deal that blows uop in our face, that's always another way to look at it.

A person is saying Ferry gambled with the asset, he could have traded him for something earler on in the process, but didn't because he gambled that he could get more later .......every decision he makes is a calculated risk, and gamble. That's the nature of the beast. Does a GM sometimes turn down a trade option, in hopes that he may have a better option down the road ...all the time. Did it happen during this trade period just concluded ?

Honestly, no deal I've head of didn't come with some stipulation that turned us away. I went into today saying that, of the talks we had going on ...either the teams we were dealing with needed to concede on their stances that they had taken up til now, or we would have to. If they or we didn't, then no deal would get made. And from what I know, that's exactly what ended up happening. We never found a match, and yes ...I'm really dissapointed. But, doesn't mean I'm dissapointed in Ferry, just that we couldn't find the match.

I seriously hope we can find a vet big via free agency. If we could it would make me feel much much better than I do now.

It seems like you were expecting a deal to happen. Im pretty mad too nothing happened but just like you if we can get Joe Smith through free agency I would feel a lot better.

 

[Zone]

But to say that he loses 10 million in Snow, then to ignore that the team would with Wally expiring save 26 million dollars next year.

I think you're comparing apples to oranges (if I understand your post correctly). Wally and Wilcox are both expirings. But trading Snow would've cost $10 million right off the bat because we would no longer be able to collect the medical reimbursement on his contract, and that money from Wilcox's contract would've remained on both our salary and luxury cap numbers.

 

[daytripper]

Bottomline the Cavs are one of the 4-5 best teams in the NBA this year regardless of them making a deal today and alot of that is due to Ferry.

With that said, I have one small nitpick with the way he handled the expiring asset of Wally's contract. Honestly, I really can't blame Ferry too much based on his prior experience just last season he was able to make a nice deal at the deadline. With so many teams facing financial difficulties it only made sense that there would be alot of options today.

Looking back to the beginning of the season, it now appears the best time to have made a deal may have been during the first month of the season. As an example it appeared Larry Brown and MJ were making most of the Bobcat players available the first few weeks of the season. Then after the Jason Richardson trade the team settled down and there was a feeling that guys like Wallace and Okafor were no longer on the block. I don't know if Ferry ever had any talks with Charlotte early on but you could see how that window could've closed as we've moved closer to the trade deadline.

I think having another huge expiring like LaFrentz probably messed up the Cavs too in addition to the Bulls trading another expiring like Gooden. Last year when the Lakers acquired Gasol they had one of the few expirings in Kwame Brown and apparently had a desperate Memphis team thinking they were going to trade that expiring elsewhere if they didn't take their lowball offer.

 

[KI4MVP]

W&G I respect u, but I have to state that Ferry knows best. Shaq was the only person we really went after on deadline day, and he is not a great fit. I wish we would have went with AK47, but Ferry did not make an offer. I think Ferry knows what he is doing, and I have thought that ever since I found out about us not making a deal. Like I stated before, Wally can play when he wants to. I am just pissed that we tryed to trade Ben Wallace because now, if history proves itself, Wallace will become a cancer now.

how can you possibly claim to know this.

 

[NarlCavs]

It seems a lot of people are taking rumors and their own fantasy trade ideas too seriously and are upset that some supposed great deal that may have never existed didn't end up coming true.
Everything that gets reported in regards to possible trades might not be completely accurate.

I was hopeful Wally's contract could be used to bring in quality talent. It appears to have turned out that contract by itself wasn't enough to bring back the right value. You don't give up a young talent like Hickson, other core pieces or draft picks unless it's exactly the right deal. If it's for a Bosh or Amare level talent than you do it, otherwise you end up giving up too much and set yourself back.

The Cavs still have the flexibility, ability, and willingness to make one or more major moves in the next year or two. I'm also disappointed a deal couldn't be worked out but I'd rather go forward with a team that currently 41-11 than make a move just to make a move or one that risks setting this team back.

When I see some possibilities that didn't work out I'm not that upset. Bringing in Shaq while huge is also a major risk and adjustment.
Brad Miller never excited me too much. I only viewed him as a last resort if nothing else panned out. There's no way I give up any future assets or core players for him.
Salmons never excited me too much either. I see a player who is better with the ball in his hands and one who I wonder would accept a lesser role or a possible bench role. I don't know how well he would have fit.

 

[CavsRules]

What I really want to know is more about Amar'e and how our discussions went. I heard what we offered, but never knew if it was legit or not, and if the Suns were interested in dealing with us.


Needless to say, after cooling off I think this is probably the best thing Ferry could possibly do if all we could get was Shaq(though I wouldn't mind O'Neal..), but it's pretty disappointing when you can't get a deal done to improve the team with the assets you have. I think that's the way most fans view it, at least myself.

Time to get healthy and see what we really got here.

 

[Benedict_Boozer]

I would like to hear what happened with the RJ discussions as well if possible. The fans on the MIL msg board seem pissed a salary dump wasn't done, and the majority seem to be on board with a straight swap of Wally for RJ (so they could resign Sessions & CV, etc.)

 

[Radar]

Dam all we needed was ONE decent big man off the bench and we should have been good,but NO....

W&G are you able to say(since deadline is gone) what decent names were out there that is worth talking about?

 

[Cavatt]

Honestly I am really happy that we have JJ still, and even (gulp) Wally! I was hoping we would end up doing a straight salary thing with Snow and a pick or something for a small bench upgrade. I was not excited about anything much besides Camby or Amare. I really love our team and think we are the best. Our guys have not given their best shot against any of the teams we have lost to and I just don't see those bad performances lasting a 7 game series.

For all of those people who say why did he stand pat? Think about the fact that he was in some kind of serious talks about Stoudamire just a week ago. If you are being teased with that because of your expirings, would you think nothing else from one of the other financially strapped teams is going to show up? I would have guessed after I was in a two horse race for Stat, that something a little less magnificent might show up. I am glad we didn't give up to much. In some ways we had more to lose than to gain.

 

[Mr2400]

Bottomline the Cavs are one of the 4-5 best teams in the NBA this year regardless of them making a deal today and alot of that is due to Ferry.

With that said, I have one small nitpick with the way he handled the expiring asset of Wally's contract. Honestly, I really can't blame Ferry too much based on his prior experience just last season he was able to make a nice deal at the deadline. With so many teams facing financial difficulties it only made sense that there would be alot of options today.

Looking back to the beginning of the season, it now appears the best time to have made a deal may have been during the first month of the season. As an example it appeared Larry Brown and MJ were making most of the Bobcat players available the first few weeks of the season. Then after the Jason Richardson trade the team settled down and there was a feeling that guys like Wallace and Okafor were no longer on the block. I don't know if Ferry ever had any talks with Charlotte early on but you could see how that window could've closed as we've moved closer to the trade deadline.

I think having another huge expiring like LaFrentz probably messed up the Cavs too in addition to the Bulls trading another expiring like Gooden. Last year when the Lakers acquired Gasol they had one of the few expirings in Kwame Brown and apparently had a desperate Memphis team thinking they were going to trade that expiring elsewhere if they didn't take their lowball offer.

i would say we're either third best or tied for second best. We still can't win a title without more size. That includes the backcourt and up front. Delonte, Mo, and Boobie are all undersized. Ben, Andy, and Z don't score much between them and only Z has any offensive game worth speaking of in terms of getting his shot without lebron or mo having to set it up for him.