Time for a Rudy Gay safari?

[Walter White]

Here's my take on all this, and I'm not using exact figures, just ballpark guesstimates to demonstrate why the tax implications should really be a consideration here:

Gay would likely make around $18-20M; average it to $19 for the sake of argument... I think this is reasonable since he'll likely use the Luol Deng contract as a starting point in negotiations.

Shump will make nearly $11M next year, RJ $2.5M. That's $13.5M.. Jones and Anderson will be gone, that's $3M, total $16.5M..

The difference between this team with Gay, versus this team with Shumpert and Jefferson plus 1 guy who never plays and another who is medically retired is about ~$2.5M (w/12 guys on the roster)..

If we could upgrade to Rudy Gay for an additional $2.5M to even $5M (Gay @ $21M+), the Cavs should do that every day, all day.

But those are still filled roster spots right? Won't JJ, Bird, RJ or anyone else have to be replaced with minimum contracts or cap holds? There will be at least 5 open roster spots on the team. That is an extra 4-5 million regardless. And Shump is closer to 10 mil.

So we will be about 20 mil over the luxury tax line replacing Shump for Gay assuming we fill in the 5 extra spots with minimums. Which doesn't include using any MLE's, re-signing Korver, TPE's, etc. Not even whatever Kyrie or Love's new numbers are if they change. This is 20 mil over the luxury tax line bare minimum right? I mean Gay might even make more. I'm not sure how much that equates to in luxury tax (close to 100 mil or more?), but I'm pretty sure our FO isn't going to pay it for Rudy Gay being honest. He is going to need to take a discount probably, if you want to call it a discount. I think 15 mil a year is a more fair price anyway.

Maybe I am wrong which is possible. But it doesn't seem as feasible as you make it sound.

 

[gourimoko]

But those are still filled roster spots right? Won't JJ, Bird, RJ or anyone else have to be replaced with minimum contracts or cap holds? There will be at least 5 open roster spots on the team. That is an extra 4-5 million regardless. And Shump is closer to 10 mil.

So we will be about 20 mil over the luxury tax line replacing Shump for Gay assuming we fill in the 5 extra spots with minimums. Which doesn't include using any MLE's, re-signing Korver, TPE's, etc. Not even whatever Kyrie or Love's new numbers are if they change. This is 20 mil over the luxury tax line bare minimum right? I mean Gay might even make more. I'm not sure how much that equates to in luxury tax (close to 100 mil or more?), but I'm pretty sure our FO isn't going to pay it for Rudy Gay being honest. He is going to need to take a discount probably, if you want to call it a discount. I think 15 mil a year is a more fair price anyway.

Maybe I am wrong which is possible. But it doesn't seem as feasible as you make it sound.

I went over this in greater detail in the Shumpert thread, and I think @Lyuokdea and @jking948 also touched on this as well, but even if the Cavaliers salary were to go up, it would not be anywhere near as much as people are thinking.

Shump, RJ, JJ, Birdman going out with Gay+D-leaguers is not a huge increase in payroll from what I can tell.

I'm not saying it's a wash, but it's absolutely 100% a more optimal expenditure, dollar/performance-wise.

I also didn't touch on the fact that the salary cap is going up, and will fall somewhere between $102-108M.

 

[BimboColesHair]

Here's my take on all this, and I'm not using exact figures, just ballpark guesstimates to demonstrate why the tax implications should really be a consideration here:

Gay would likely make around $18-20M; average it to $19 for the sake of argument... I think this is reasonable since he'll likely use the Luol Deng contract as a starting point in negotiations.

Shump will make nearly $11M next year, RJ $2.5M. That's $13.5M.. Jones and Anderson will be gone, that's $3M, total $16.5M..

The difference between this team with Gay, versus this team with Shumpert and Jefferson plus 1 guy who never plays and another who is medically retired is about ~$2.5M (w/12 guys on the roster)..

If we could upgrade to Rudy Gay for an additional $2.5M to even $5M (Gay @ $21M+), the Cavs should do that every day, all day.

Just a heads up.

James Jones says he is playing 1 more year. Said he wants to hit 15 years and then call it a career right before this season started.

Could obviously change, but as long as we have LeBron, we'll be the only place who signs him IMO.

 

[gourimoko]

Just a heads up.

James Jones says he is playing 1 more year. Said he wants to hit 15 years and then call it a career right before this season started.

Could obviously change, but as long as we have LeBron, we'll be the only place who signs him IMO.

I feel it, but, that doesn't mean he needs to be here to start the season, right?

I mean, he could do the team a solid, pull a Ray Allen and sign midseason.. It's not like he's a vital component to training camp and he'd still get his 15 seasons..

 

[BimboColesHair]

I feel it, but, that doesn't mean he needs to be here to start the season, right?

I mean, he could do the team a solid, pull a Ray Allen and sign midseason.. It's not like he's a vital component to training camp and he'd still get his 15 seasons..

I really can't see that happening...not with LeBron's "favorite teammate ever".

And with the vet minimum supposedly going way up under the new CBA, it will probably wash out any gain made by Birdman's vet minimum coming off the books.

 

[Walter White]

I went over this in greater detail in the Shumpert thread, and I think @Lyuokdea and @jking948 also touched on this as well, but even if the Cavaliers salary were to go up, it would not be anywhere near as much as people are thinking.

Shump, RJ, JJ, Birdman going out with Gay+D-leaguers is not a huge increase in payroll from what I can tell.

I'm not saying it's a wash, but it's absolutely 100% a more optimal expenditure, dollar/performance-wise.

I also didn't touch on the fact that the salary cap is going up, and will fall somewhere between $102-108M.

If it is closer to 108M, that would sure help.

Maybe if we get really crafty we can get it down to only 15 mil over the luxury tax. Maybe Rudy Gay's first year is only say 16-17 mil hit on the cap, we leave a roster spot open, etc. I'm just worried about if/how much Kyrie and Love's salaries could change and how much flexibility that leaves us with. There are many unknowns right now.

Perhaps it is quite possible, but being at that limit with up to 4 or 5 forced minimum contracts is scary territory to me. It means there is virtually no way to improve the roster except for minimum contracts. Which we could probably find decent value on, but that is a ton riding on a player that isn't necessarily guaranteed to work out.

 

[Lyuokdea]

I feel it, but, that doesn't mean he needs to be here to start the season, right?

I mean, he could do the team a solid, pull a Ray Allen and sign midseason.. It's not like he's a vital component to training camp and he'd still get his 15 seasons..

I don't think that actually matters? The salary tax is based on the yearly salary of the players on your roster, it isn't pro-rated by how much you actually paid them.

What would technically help is Champ signing to start the year, and then retiring on say, Feb 15 --- but I don't think that is likely.

 

[Efficiency]

I'm kinda confused why people think Gay would only sign for 15-20 mill. Cap is rising again and there were a lot worse players that got paid 15-20 mill this past FA.

With our lack of assets and ability to improve I think he would have us by the balls. We can't exactly lose Rudy Gay for nothing. I can't see a agent not taking advantage of that.

 

[col63onel]

I'm kinda confused why people think Gay would only sign for 15-20 mill. Cap is rising again and there were a lot worse players that got paid 15-20 mill this past FA.

Cap is rising, but there was still more cap space last summer than this summer.

 

[BigJ]

A guy like Gay especially if he helps us win a Title with a Strong Performance will demand 25m+ easilly.
Quallity Starter Caliber Players are payed 20m+ now.

We could not resign him without beeing in Tax Hell..(more than we already are) and i dont even know if we even could resign him(would we get his Bird Rights?)

 

[Lyuokdea]

A guy like Gay especially if he helps us win a Title with a Strong Performance will demand 25m+ easilly.
Quallity Starter Caliber Players are payed 20m+ now.

We could not resign him without beeing in Tax Hell..(more than we already are) and i dont even know if we even could resign him(would we get his Bird Rights?)

We would get his Bird Rights.

We could offer him up to about $20M/year while being in the same tax situation we are now.

 

[BigJ]

We would get his Bird Rights.

We could offer him up to about $20M/year while being in the same tax situation we are now.

I think we would have to try to get a feeling if he would want to rather Play on a contender for 20m than get 25+m elsewhere.. i Imagine he would.. he lacks Team Sucsess so far and i imagine he would be happy to play for Titles..

I would not want to throw Shump away for half a year of Gay and whoops he is gone..

 

[Lyuokdea]

I think we would have to try to get a feeling if he would want to rather Play on a contender for 20m than get 25+m elsewhere.. i Imagine he would.. he lacks Team Sucsess so far and i imagine he would be happy to play for Titles..

I would not want to throw Shump away for half a year of Gay and whoops he is gone..

I agree - you can often talk to a player during a trade -- I think the other team just needs to give permission. We probably wouldn't be able to come to agreement on terms immediately though, but you can get a gist.

Another possibility is that we offer Gay an extra year (which we can do because we have his rights), that extra guaranteed money (though it might make the contract a bit of an albatross in 2020) can make up for less money in year one.

 

[BigJ]

I agree - you can often talk to a player during a trade -- I think the other team just needs to give permission. We probably wouldn't be able to come to agreement on terms immediately though, but you can get a gist.

Another possibility is that we offer Gay an extra year (which we can do because we have his rights), that extra guaranteed money (though it might make the contract a bit of an albatross in 2020) can make up for less money in year one.

Yeah.. i trust or FO to not just go in blindly without ever speaking to Rudy and trying to get a feel if he would even like Playing here long term

 

[gourimoko]

We would get his Bird Rights.

We could offer him up to about $20M/year while being in the same tax situation we are now.

Exactly.