Discussion in 'Trades, Free Agency, & the Draft' started by TFIR, Jan 16, 2016.
You seem to be implying that Delly and Rubio are equivalent players....
Actually I'm not, since I'd rather have Delly on my team than Ricky fu_ckin' Rubio.
Because of his ability to shoot the three? I'm honestly curious to hear why.
Spot up 3PT shooting, defense energy & hustle, good chemistry with LeBron/Love/T.T ect..
Delly was just a great fit on both ends, I don't think Rubio fits as well primarily because he can't shoot which is very important to the the way we play.
I love Delly, but his 3 point shooting has been ass this year. It's been diving since the mid-way through last season.
And Rubio is a helluva defender.
My thoughts too... Anyone who cites they'd rather have Delly because of passing/facilitating or defense does not watch Rubio. He's a top-5 defensive PG in the NBA and is up there as a facilitator too.
If the answer is shooting then I do buy that argument... But given this season, I'm wondering if Delly's shooting numbers were inflated by regular season defense against LBJ, Kyrie, and Love, and not because he's a good spot-up shooter.
I have no idea why we'd rather have Delly over Rubio?
Not that I want to trade Shump for Rubio -- I don't.. But I get the argument.
I'd have to wait and see what the fit looks like. Rubio's inability to shoot is really worrisome to me. Stats are showing that the Wolves are not only better with Kris Dunn playing with KAT, but Tyus Jones too! For as great of a facilitator as Rubio is - and he is definitely phenomenal at facilitating - the Wolves cannot use KAT's astounding ability to its fullest with Rubio playing.
The Wolves starting lineup is outscored by 4.4 points per possession with Rubio at the helm. With Kris Dunn they’re outscored by one. But most importantly, with Jones playing instead of Rubio or Dunn him the Wolves outscore their opponent by a whopping 19.1 points per possessions.
With that said, we have much better shooting talent than Minnesota, and this should help Rubio. I imagine he would play primarily during the regular season and select defensive minutes without LeBron in the playoffs. If you could surround Rubio with Kyrie, Korver, JR, Channing, and/or Love (pick four out of five), I'd have to imagine his facilitating would be a deadly weapon.
The big dilemma, though, is then the Cavs are down one more defensive wing. I really think Liggins can play against GSW, which means we have four wings who can guard the Warriors (JR, Liggins, RJ, and LeBron). I think the number we need is five, mainly because of liabilities that Liggins, RJ, and JR have on various sides of the ball.
So, frankly, unless Rubio can be such a huge boon to the Cavs offense that he will earn noticeable playing time against the Warriors - something I do not totally discount - than I would rather have Shump.
Well pretty much all the stuff that people talked about Rondo being a theoretical good fit with the team would actually apply to current Rubio.
I'm a Rubio fan and if he didn't have 3 years remaining (or so) and was a worse finisher than Delly I'd be all for it.
Since LeBron mentioned getting a point guard. Does it mean he's confident vs. Golden State with the wings that we have?
Because at this point, everyone and their mother is talking about going after PJ Tucker. New York, OKC, Toronto, etc.,
I guess there's a question of what position you want to get high-quality at, and what you want to pay for it? For instance, do we want a PG to play serious postseason minutes? Or do we want one that can play 15 MPG for the rest of the regular season to keep the starters rested? Would we be better with a Wing/Big or PG against GS? What fraction of our total planning should be GS specific, and how much should we concentrate on just being a better team overall?
My guess is the front office is biding their time for one, or maybe both, of two reasons:
1.) They think that a Rondo, Deron Williams, or Rubio type might get bought out (going from most to least probable). They think they can make get a top flight PG for this season at the Vet Min.
2.) They want a guy like Chalmers or Jack who isn't quite back yet.
Otherwise, I don't see a reason they would make a play (vet min or cheap trade) now. We are thin right now, and going on a long and intense road trip. Also, the tax doesn't care what time of the year you sign a player, so there's nothing to worry about money wise. LBJs comments seemed to pack some urgency, which is another reason for the team to act now
Either of these scenarios though, suggest that they are actually looking for quality in the PG they bring in, and that suggests playoff minutes. Otherwise, why not just get Norris Cole on a 10 day contract, or bring in Quinn Cook, or any of the other dozen scrubs who would be ready to step in at a moments notice.
The fact that we are talking about PG while also playing Felder about 15 MPG suggests the same thing -- we're looking for a proven vet that can help the team through the playoffs.
I haven't actually heard much from Cavs/insiders on the Wings fronts. Lots of people here (and generally on the internet) are clamoring for more defensive wings. Maybe the Cavs feel LBJ/Shumpert/Smith/Liggins is enough? Maybe they feel Korver/Jefferson can be a good defensive matchup against Thompson?
We actually have a ton of players in the wing category -- so it's clear that if we shop here, we're not going bottom of the basement. Because whoever we get has to take minutes from somebody. Also, because we have tons of bodies, we're definitely not thinking about the regular season here. In the playoffs you only usually play ~9 deep. We have: LBJ/Shumpert/Smith/Liggins/Korver/Jefferson to play 2/3. Even taking away LBJ who will play a lot of minutes at the 4, that is 5 people among only two of the positions.
So whoever we get is going to supplant one of the 5 names up there. Korver is probably safe because we just got him. Smith is probably safe as long as he comes back healthy. There are probably two tiers of players here:
1.) Vets on Expiring contracts for Tanking teams: The best options are Tucker and Sefalosha. Not sure how reasonable Thabo is since we couldn't get him included into the Korver deal. Tucker is actually a bit hard to trade for now, because we broke the AV TPE into two, and neither piece is big enough. Thus we need to send out a contract at around 3M to get him? It would have to be either Shumpert or Jefferson + Anderson + McRae
2.) Great players on expiring deals who are likely leaving at the end of the year. Rudy Gay and Danilo Gallinari fall into this category. These take Shumpert + Anderson + Junk, and also probably a few assets to get. Also, these deals tend to increase the salaries by around $8M this year (and more depending on what they resign for after). They are big home run moves --- do we want to make one?
Nobody talks about this -- I think because everybody is concentrating on GS. But what if Memphis makes it out of the playoffs? Or OKC? Without Andersen we really only have Love + Thompson + Frye among legit inside players. LBJ can bang there in the playoffs, but it's not where we want him. I could see us getting a vet min (buyout?) guy here. Or making a big trade in this category for a legit third big.
Also, note that since teams aren't emphasizing bigs anymore, these guys might come cheaper than you'd imagine. The problem is that most of the "shoppable" players are quite young (Noel, Okafor, Jusuf Nurkic, Vucevic, Cauley-Stein) and are thus probably expensive. Other players who would be cheap in draft picks (Lopez, Howard, Monroe, Whiteside) have huge contracts and would be hard for us to add cap-wise. One option on the "maybe leaving at the end of the year" deal is actually Ibaka -- but Orlando just paid a lot to get him (but you never know with Orlando).
In the mid-price range option are guys like Kenneth Faried? Miles Plumlee? Boban? Hibbert? Chandler? Asik? Aminu (maybe he's in the wing convo)? (you will actually get an asset for taking some of these guys)? None of those guys will see the court against the warriors, but might see minutes against some other teams
Buyout options might include Bogut or a number of those mid-range options.
Other ideas I haven't thought of?
Hey, it looks like Atlanta is no longer shopping Millsap, at least for now. That's nice as I didn't want to see him on Toronto, or Boston for that matter. They would still be underdogs to us but it could be a harder series.
Was hoping he'd head out West to the Spurs or OKC so they'd have a better shot at knocking out Golden State.
Is it confirmed as of now? As hours ago I saw it was not fixed yet.
Cavs have two ways to structure the deal:
1. Dun for KK, and Mo+1st for TPE; this way leaves us a 2.2 mln TPE good for 9 Jan 2018;
2. (part of)TPE for KK, and Dun for TPE, and Mo+1st for TPE; this way leaves us a 4.8 mln and a 2.2 mln TPE good for 9 Jan 2018, but will break our Varejao TPE to 4.4 mln, good for Feb 2017.
I would rather Griff keep the whole Varejao TPE, considering the lack of suitable PG options fitting for 4.4 mln contract. But again, is it confirmed that the TPE is already broken.
For example, Cavs might be interested in Collison (but Kings are leaning towards extending him currently), but Collison's contract is 5.3 mln. With our TPE broken down to 4.4 mln, even if he's available moving towards deadline, we're not able to nab him.