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Before Dwill, I would have been reluctant to move Shumpert. If Dwill continues to fit in, I would be willing to move him for point.
 
Before Dwill, I would have been reluctant to move Shumpert. If Dwill continues to fit in, I would be willing to move him for point.

I really like DWill, but banking on him to be a big contributor in the playoffs after just 3 games is not only premature but dangerous. You have to bring back a SF/PF type or a longer guard that is better suited to guard Durant. I'd be most worried about Green and Durant in the pick & roll. Not sure how suited we're are to defend that at the moment. If either LeBron or TT get in foul trouble we'd be toast right now.
 
I dont think we can really afford to trade shump
I guess people are forgetting, but he's inconsistent, has yet to show up in the playoffs, is. consistently injured, and does not play golden state well.

Just a recap
 
I really like DWill, but banking on him to be a big contributor in the playoffs after just 3 games is not only premature but dangerous. You have to bring back a SF/PF type or a longer guard that is better suited to guard Durant. I'd be most worried about Green and Durant in the pick & roll. Not sure how suited we're are to defend that at the moment. If either LeBron or TT get in foul trouble we'd be toast right now.
If you look at our rosters, physically we don't match up inside ( Pachula and McGee) , but the roster is thinnest at point. Obviously the team has to decide if Williams is going to show up more than Stump, but all I am saying is that if Dwill stays then sHumbert is less critical.
 
I guess people are forgetting, but he's inconsistent, has yet to show up in the playoffs, is. consistently injured, and does not play golden state well.

Just a recap

you forgot hasnt shown up on the defensive side of the ball this year.
 
I guess people are forgetting, but he's inconsistent, has yet to show up in the playoffs, is. consistently injured, and does not play golden state well.

Just a recap

Different recap--

He's been pretty consistent for a majority of this season. 1 bad 2-3 week stretch, post JR going down, he was handling ball for LBJ-less 2nd unit, admitted he was trying to do everything. Was inserted into starting line-up and role was clearly defined by Lue, immediately back to great shooting, improving
defense. He's also been healthy all year *knock on wood*, save for that minor ankle sprain that only cost him a few games and has not seemed to affect him much since he's been back. He looks to be in great shape as well. He also usually does very well guarding guys like Klay, has had mixed results on Curry.

51 games played. 5 threes a game. Shooting 40.3% from 3.


Let's correct the playoff narrative a bit...

--He was amazing in our first playoff run together, he was a nightmare for Golden State actually, kicked ass up and down the floor even hobbling on a bad groin.

--He was not very good last year, started season with 3 month long wrist ligament injury on his right wrist(he shoots and dribbles with his right), had a terrible year all around, had a couple*moments* in the finals vs GS, but ultimately was not effective in that series because his shot was trash.


Shumps not perfect, and he is very very expendable with JR coming back and Korver playing out of his mind...but he's also young, athletic, and locked up on a sweet deal, and having a great year. That could both be an argument for keeping him and an argument for selling high on him.

I think the opportunity to sell high is still there in the summer(way more likely he gets traded then, IMO).

But I would totally be fine with trading Shumpert this week, but ONLY if we get a talent UPGRADE that will be able to make a legitimate impact against Golden State. Tall, versatile wings that instead of a 2/3 like Shump, and more of a 3/4. Rudy Gay pre-achilles really was the perfect target.

I think ultimately the guy I'm looking at if we trade Shumpert is Wilson Chandler. Shumpert+Cedi for Chandler? Does Denver consider it? Do we give up Cedi in that deal? Or would we rather give up 2021, would they take that?

I think Chandler is a guy like Iguodala who's just itching to find the right spot on a winning team to come in and make a huge impact.
 
Different recap--

He's been pretty consistent for a majority of this season. 1 bad 2-3 week stretch, post JR going down, he was handling ball for LBJ-less 2nd unit, admitted he was trying to do everything. Was inserted into starting line-up and role was clearly defined by Lue, immediately back to great shooting, improving
defense. He's also been healthy all year *knock on wood*, save for that minor ankle sprain that only cost him a few games and has not seemed to affect him much since he's been back. He looks to be in great shape as well. He also usually does very well guarding guys like Klay, has had mixed results on Curry.

51 games played. 5 threes a game. Shooting 40.3% from 3.


Let's correct the playoff narrative a bit...

--He was amazing in our first playoff run together, he was a nightmare for Golden State actually, kicked ass up and down the floor even hobbling on a bad groin.

--He was not very good last year, started season with 3 month long wrist ligament injury on his right wrist(he shoots and dribbles with his right), had a terrible year all around, had a couple*moments* in the finals vs GS, but ultimately was not effective in that series because his shot was trash.


Shumps not perfect, and he is very very expendable with JR coming back and Korver playing out of his mind...but he's also young, athletic, and locked up on a sweet deal, and having a great year. That could both be an argument for keeping him and an argument for selling high on him.

I think the opportunity to sell high is still there in the summer(way more likely he gets traded then, IMO).

But I would totally be fine with trading Shumpert this week, but ONLY if we get a talent UPGRADE that will be able to make a legitimate impact against Golden State. Tall, versatile wings that instead of a 2/3 like Shump, and more of a 3/4. Rudy Gay pre-achilles really was the perfect target.

I think ultimately the guy I'm looking at if we trade Shumpert is Wilson Chandler. Shumpert+Cedi for Chandler? Does Denver consider it? Do we give up Cedi in that deal? Or would we rather give up 2021, would they take that?

I think Chandler is a guy like Iguodala who's just itching to find the right spot on a winning team to come in and make a huge impact.

This issue I'm having with some of these Shumpert trades is they just don't seem to make sense for the other team.

Why is someone giving us a talent upgrade, when we honestly have so little else to add to a package? It's one thing to get a talent upgrade when you're giving back a guy on a rookie deal with potential. But we aren't. He is what he is and he's not on some cheap-ass rookie scale contract anymore. So why would someone trade a better player for a worse one, unless we can bring something else to the table? Salary cap relief isn't it, as I think we've seen now we aren't willing to take on more salary. We have no draft picks of significant value. All three of those things, young guy on a rookie deal with potential, draft picks, and salary relief, are how we did the Waiters for Shumpert/Smith/Mozgov trade. We really can't do any of them now except for........

Osman. And yea, if a team is willing to give us an upgrade for Shumpert, you include Osman and don't think twice. But I have no idea what Shumpert and Cedi Osman are going to bring you. I don't think it's Wilson Chandler.

I'm not trying to be a downer, but if we can't do anything else, then it's hard to imagine why a team would just flat out downgrade their talent from whatever player we want to Shumpert.

Even in the Gay situation, where maybe Sacramento would have been inclined to take a lesser talent w/o much else because Gay was/is leaving, at this point I'm not sure the Cavs make a trade for a guy who will be a free agent this summer that might get a significant pay raise. Ben said in this thread, I believe, that he thought in order for the Cavs to do a Carmelo deal the outgoing salaries would have to be very, very close to matching, thus not raising the tax bill. So I'm not sure they trade Shumpert for a guy who might end up getting a whole helluva lot more than Shumpert is getting right now, next season.

EDIT: But I will say this, if the we plan on keeping Korever, and I hope we do, it behooves us to move Shumpert. He can't play point, and we'd be better served with someone else to back up the small forward spot. And I think you'd be hard pressed to watch Korver and think Shumpert should be ahead of him in the shooting guard rotation.

So, for me, I'm fine moving Shumpert for an equal talent at a back-up position of need. Back-up point, back-up center, or a back-up 3/4 tweener (I know Williams is on the team, but we could get someone better if we swapped Shumpert for that person). Robert Covington was brought up, and while I do hate Covingtons tendency to keep shooting when he's off, he's a guy of roughly equal value to Shumpert and fills a greater need. Now I have no idea what Philadelphia thinks of Shumpert, but that's a trade that makes sense to me.

DOUBLE EDIT: And if Denver is in love with Osman and doesn't really care about making the playoffs this year and would do that trade, you pull the trigger on that immediately.
 
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I think Chandler is a guy like Iguodala who's just itching to find the right spot on a winning team to come in and make a huge impact.
I would love Wilson Chandler, he's been one of those guys the board has been brining up for years. That being said Im not sure I pull the trigger on a Wilson trade.

I do however, agree with this part of your post 100000%.

His 2010 & 2011 campaigns were fantastic. He was one of the key reasons NY looked to be on the rise after the Amare signing. Not sure what year it was, but I think he had a significant injury and since then he's lost some pop.

Then again, never underestimate a veterans hunger to win a ring.
 
This issue I'm having with some of these Shumpert trades is they just don't seem to make sense for the other team.

Why is someone giving us a talent upgrade, when we honestly have so little else to add to a package? It's one thing to get a talent upgrade when you're giving back a guy on a rookie deal with potential. But we aren't. He is what he is and he's not on some cheap-ass rookie scale contract anymore. So why would someone trade a better player for a worse one, unless we can bring something else to the table? Salary cap relief isn't it, as I think we've seen now we aren't willing to take on more salary. We have no draft picks of significant value. All three of those things, young guy on a rookie deal with potential, draft picks, and salary relief, are how we did the Waiters for Shumpert/Smith/Mozgov trade. We really can't do any of them now except for........

Osman. And yea, if a team is willing to give us an upgrade for Shumpert, you include Osman and don't think twice. But I have no idea what Shumpert and Cedi Osman are going to bring you. I don't think it's Wilson Chandler.

I'm not trying to be a downer, but if we can't do anything else, then it's hard to imagine why a team would just flat out downgrade their talent from whatever player we want to Shumpert.

Even in the Gay situation, where maybe Sacramento would have been inclined to take a lesser talent w/o much else because Gay was/is leaving, at this point I'm not sure the Cavs make a trade for a guy who will be a free agent this summer that might get a significant pay raise. Ben said in this thread, I believe, that he thought in order for the Cavs to do a Carmelo deal the outgoing salaries would have to be very, very close to matching, thus not raising the tax bill. So I'm not sure they trade Shumpert for a guy who might end up getting a whole helluva lot more than Shumpert is getting right now, next season.

EDIT: But I will say this, if the we plan on keeping Korever, and I hope we do, it behooves us to move Shumpert. He can't play point, and we'd be better served with someone else to back up the small forward spot. And I think you'd be hard pressed to watch Korver and think Shumpert should be ahead of him in the shooting guard rotation.

So, for me, I'm fine moving Shumpert for an equal talent at a back-up position of need. Back-up point, back-up center, or a back-up 3/4 tweener (I know Williams is on the team, but we could get someone better if we swapped Shumpert for that person). Robert Covington was brought up, and while I do hate Covingtons tendency to keep shooting when he's off, he's a guy of roughly equal value to Shumpert and fills a greater need. Now I have no idea what Philadelphia thinks of Shumpert, but that's a trade that makes sense to me.

DOUBLE EDIT: And if Denver is in love with Osman and doesn't really care about making the playoffs this year and would do that trade, you pull the trigger on that immediately.


Shumpert+whatever else if needed for Convington and Richaun Holmes. Convington is a lock down defender. This year he is seriously one of the best defenders on the wings. He is streaky and he takes bad shots but I think he can be productive under Lebron.
Richaun is obviously a guy that I liked ever since before the Draft and he can play either the 4 and the 5 with decent success.
 
This issue I'm having with some of these Shumpert trades is they just don't seem to make sense for the other team.

DOUBLE EDIT: And if Denver is in love with Osman and doesn't really care about making the playoffs this year and would do that trade, you pull the trigger on that immediately.

I agree with your premise, but I also think that Wilson Chandler is a specific situation we can get a talent upgrade for Shump.

Chandler is openly unhappy in Denver, he's battles some injuries there, and I think they honestly prefer Gallo long-term and plan on keeping him this summer.

Shumpert fits in very well there too. Their best SG is Will Barton and he's a 6th man type of quick hitting scorer and needs the ball in his hands. Their starting lineup would be more balanced with Shumpert. He's the kind of guy I could see Mike Malone wanting to insert at the 2 as a 3+D guy.

Denver has reportedly shown interest in Cedi as well, and they have a great international scouting department. If we're to believe scouts/reports that Osman would be a mid-late first rounder in this loaded 2017 draft, let's just say he's valued right in between the lottery and the last pick of the first round.

So #22 with the added advantage of not being extra flexible contract wise due to being a second rounder...That's a nice little asset.

Shump+Osman for Chandler I think is a fair enough trade. I agree it's something the Cavs should jump immediately, because it opens up the 2 for JR and Korver exclusively and then Chandler comes in as a 3 or small ball 4. It would extend LeBrons career and make resting LBJ much easier.

I would honestly even probably do Shump+Cedi+2021 first(lottery protected)
For Chandler. I really think he'd be an 6th man a-la Iguodala and he would also be amazing to have to matchup with the Warriors because we could put him on Durant and it frees up Bron more to take Draymond out of the game.

If we can't upgrade in that type of fashion, I dont really want to trade Shumpert. But given the situation in Denver....I think he's definitely gettable.

I'm not even sure who else there is that I'd let Shump go for. I saw some stuff about Jrue Holiday...I'd make that trade if Gilbert were willing to sign Holiday this summer. Even if it isn't a realistic long term fit I bet we could flip Jrue into something way nicer than Shumpert if we have him under contract.
 
I agree with your premise, but I also think that Wilson Chandler is a specific situation we can get a talent upgrade for Shump.

Chandler is openly unhappy in Denver, he's battles some injuries there, and I think they honestly prefer Gallo long-term and plan on keeping him this summer.

Shumpert fits in very well there too. Their best SG is Will Barton and he's a 6th man type of quick hitting scorer and needs the ball in his hands. Their starting lineup would be more balanced with Shumpert. He's the kind of guy I could see Mike Malone wanting to insert at the 2 as a 3+D guy.

Denver has reportedly shown interest in Cedi as well, and they have a great international scouting department. If we're to believe scouts/reports that Osman would be a mid-late first rounder in this loaded 2017 draft, let's just say he's valued right in between the lottery and the last pick of the first round.

So #22 with the added advantage of not being extra flexible contract wise due to being a second rounder...That's a nice little asset.

Shump+Osman for Chandler I think is a fair enough trade. I agree it's something the Cavs should jump immediately, because it opens up the 2 for JR and Korver exclusively and then Chandler comes in as a 3 or small ball 4. It would extend LeBrons career and make resting LBJ much easier.

I would honestly even probably do Shump+Cedi+2021 first(lottery protected)
For Chandler. I really think he'd be an 6th man a-la Iguodala and he would also be amazing to have to matchup with the Warriors because we could put him on Durant and it frees up Bron more to take Draymond out of the game.

If we can't upgrade in that type of fashion, I dont really want to trade Shumpert. But given the situation in Denver....I think he's definitely gettable.

I'm not even sure who else there is that I'd let Shump go for. I saw some stuff about Jrue Holiday...I'd make that trade if Gilbert were willing to sign Holiday this summer. Even if it isn't a realistic long term fit I bet we could flip Jrue into something way nicer than Shumpert if we have him under contract.

Shump+Cedi+2021 first is such an overpay.. I don't even know how you you can ever do that. Please tell me what's so special about Chandler? Igoudala and him are not even close.
 
Shump+Cedi+2021 first is such an overpay.. I don't even know how you you can ever do that. Please tell me what's so special about Chandler? Igoudala and him are not even close.

I think if put into a situation like the current Cavs team he would have an Iguodala-like impact.

And I really don't give a shit about throwing away a 2021 late first if it secures a guy who gives us a tangibly better chance in the finals for the next 3 years.
 
I think if put into a situation like the current Cavs team he would have an Iguodala-like impact.

And I really don't give a shit about throwing away a 2021 late first if it secures a guy who gives us a tangibly better chance in the finals for the next 3 years.

Late 1st? how can you know that? show me a stat that says Chandler is a difference maker. His RPM is -1 and he isn't an efficient shooter or a great defender. What's an Igoudala like impact? what do you mean that? He isn't close to being the defender Igoudalas is or the playmaker he is. Igaoudala was a very good player before he joined GSW while Chandler is average according to advanced stats.
He can score but he doesn't do it efficiently and he isn't going to put up 15 shots a game in Cleveland. We need niche players that are above average in their roles. I don't think he is what we need, honestly man, not for that price.
 

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