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Tristan Thompson

Discussion in 'Cavs Talk' started by Rist77, Dec 14, 2011.

  1. Pjlea28

    Pjlea28 In the Rotation

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    So many rumors out there about Whiteside, wonder if there is some truth to them.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2018
  2. avs2000

    avs2000 In the Rotation

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    New rumor on bleacher. Tt. Korver Clarkson for whiteside and waiters or Johnson
     
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  3. stowfan

    stowfan In the Rotation

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    Tyler Johnson 6'4' shooting guard or James Johnson PF?
     
  4. Pjlea28

    Pjlea28 In the Rotation

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    I saw that.
     
  5. priceFTW

    priceFTW Gold Star Member

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    Don’t want anything to do with Whiteside. I could go into a lot more details since @Nathan S and @The Human Q-Tip asked, but have to prep for a meeting.

    1. Why would you get him?
    • If you swap one bad contract for another, what do you gain? Is he better than TT in a vacuum? Yeah, but playoffs TT was actually a much better player than Whiteside (see more below about Whitside’s playoffs benching for being unplayable).
    • Are you going to be a better team with him? Probably not (will explain down below including an all time shitty playoffs performance)
    • Let’s say he was actually a difference maker (he’s not)—are you contending? No, so why would you do it?
    • This team supposedly wants to build a culture around being competitive and smart and unselfish. Whiteside is a HEADACHE and not good for locker room, has a low BBIQ, and is selfish and a locker room detriment.
    In SUMMATION: not a very good player in today’s league who is a pain in the ass in the locker room who’s also on a shitty contract. We gain NOTHING.

    2. Whiteside’s impact

    7,225 minutes played in his career. The Heat have been +.4 per 100 possessions better with Whiteside ON Court than OFF. So, on a team that hasn’t been good/talented after Bron left, Whiteside’s time on court has made ZERO difference.

    In fact, when the Heat played Olynyk at center and Whiteside was on the bench, the Heat had one of the NBA’s most potent offenses at an ORTG of 113.9. Miami was a NET +5.8 per 100 possessions with Olynyk on court and Whiteside off, equivalent to a 55 to 60 win type of team.

    2018 impact: Miami was -2.4 per 100 possessions with Whiteside on court in 1,365 minutes (30 win type team), and was +2.8 per 100 with him off court in 2,621 minutes (50+ win type playoff team). Literally, the only reason the Heat made the playoffs was because of the way it played with Whiteside ON THE BENCH.

    As the league has evolved, the chance that a guy like Whiteside can make a two-way difference is close to ZERO.

    —He cannot shoot and is an average player “roll man” on the pick and roll.

    —He’s a good offensive rebounder and has improved his FT shooting so if he did just those things, he might be least neutral on offense, but he’s not content with that.

    —He has been upset at his team for not getting him more touches so he can “dominate down low.” You don’t need this on this young team.

    2018 Heat ORTG WITH Whiteside: 104.1
    2018 Heat ORTG WITHOUT Whiteside: 109.5

    The Heat played massively better on offense when Whiteside sat on the bench. In fact, Whiteside was benched in the playoffs for being unplayable.

    2018 Playoffs Heat ORTG WITH Whiteside: 92.5
    2018 Playoffs Heat ORTG WITHOUT Whiteside: 108.5

    Whiteside had the THIRD LOWEST offensive box/plus minus EVER in a single playoff season for a player who played at least 75 minutes at an unfathomably bad -11.6.


    —Defensive impact

    He IS a good rim protector but before this year,
    his lack of awareness on rotations, and inability to defend in space has made him not much of a defensive impact player.

    2018 Heat DRTG WITH Whiteside: 106.5
    2018 Heat DRTG WITHOUT Whiteside: 106.7 (no difference)

    2017 Heat DRTG WITH Whiteside: 108.2
    2017 Heat DRTG WITHOUT Whiteside: 105.6 (much BETTER WITHOUT Whiteside)

    2018 Heat DRTG WITH Whiteside: 106.5
    2018 Heat DRTG WITHOUT Whiteside: 106.7 (no difference)

    2016 Heat DRTG WITH Whiteside: 105.1
    2016 Heat DRTG WITHOUT Whiteside: 104.2 (slightly BETTER WITHOUT Whiteside)

    So...you have a negative offensive player who lives in the dinosaur age and a defender who cannot defend in space in pace and space era.

    244 NBA players defended at least 1 spot up possession per game and played 50+ games. Whiteside was the 14th worst defender on spots up in the NBA giving up a shitty 1.18 PPP and nearly 43% on threes. BTW, Nwaba was third worst in the NBA giving up an unholy 1.27 PPP.

    He can't switch out to perimeter players and struggles to get back into position if he does do so.

    TL;DR: makes zero sense for any team to get Whiteside unless he plays spot minutes and with his contract, that would be ridiculous.

    I would also add that had we had Whiteside instead of TT in 2016, there’s a good chance we’re worse and don’t win the title.
     
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    Last edited: Aug 9, 2018
  6. Sir'Dom Pointer

    Sir'Dom Pointer Hall-of-Famer

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    Never post such a shallow post again..

    If you have a meeting, go meet.

    If you have the time to post, post.

    Don't mix them together. Sheesh. The outcome is unreadable.




    Real talk, this is how you post when you are in a hurry? Lol..such a beast.
     
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  7. WorldFreeB

    WorldFreeB In the Rotation

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    That is a boatload of salary to take on whether it's Johnson or Waiters,,I'm not crazy about taking another high salary player back.
     
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  8. stowfan

    stowfan In the Rotation

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    I wouldn't want either player, I think the Cavs can trade Clarkson for better. I'd forget the whole thing if that's the only deal the Heat will take.
     
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  9. LeeBuckeye

    LeeBuckeye Sixth Man

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    Why are we giving Pat Riley a mulligan?
     
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  10. chuck0609

    chuck0609 Sixth Man

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    Question is who would you want more- TT or Whiteside? Both have two years left on their deals.
    Don’t think it moves the needle much, but ties up salary next summer. Who’s a FA in 2020?
     
  11. aldamon

    aldamon Situational Stopper

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    All I got out of that is we should forget Whiteside and reach into the WNBA for Olynyk.
     
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  12. Mott the Hoople

    Mott the Hoople Situational Stopper

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    People are overthinking this.
    TT has few basketball skills. Few skills that are shown consistently at least. Whiteside at best, goes way beyond TT's skill level. At worst, he is on par with TT. Neither is positive as far as team chemistry goes.
    But Whiteside certainly can give us a different look offensively and defensively.
    I would make this deal 7 days a week.
    But I would like them to sweeten the deal if they want Korver.
     
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  13. CleveRocks

    CleveRocks There go the Cavs!

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    I think whitesides on paper is a better fit with love... I also think he may bring more back in a trade next year than TT will. I would not include Clarkson though. If we move hill, we will be riding a rook with 2 d league back ups..

    I am not for bringing a cancer, so if he is that , then nix it.. but if you think he views it as opportunity, I think it's better than TT..
     
  14. rastamon87

    rastamon87 Situational Stopper

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    Aye! And 1! We'll be seeing Waiters shooting over brooms again?
     
  15. MrX

    MrX Situational Stopper

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    I don't know. I would be jumping with joy for Whiteside. Maybe I just can't get past the insane individual stats.

    He had 14pts 11rebs 1.7blks last year but the guy only played 25 mins for goodness sakes.

    At 36 mins per game he would be on pace for 20pts 16rebs 2.5blks a game.

    It's not like his points are inefficient. His eFG% was 54% last year and career 57%

    Also it's not like he only scores on scrap's for 10pts over 36 mins. Its volume shooting with efficient scoring.

    His DRtg last year was 99 and career 98

    Is there anyone else on the heat with DRtg below a 100 that would make this look better then it appears?

    Love and Whiteside would be the best rebounding duo in the league and how long have we wanted rim protection?

    Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Whiteside hold players well below league average in the paint while TT gave up above league average?

    He is not even a liability from the FT line anymore.
     
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    Last edited: Aug 10, 2018

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