Tyronn Lue has been fired

[pinoycavsfan]

This switching everything defense leads to fastbreak opportunities for the other team. Cedi said during the post game interview that the cavs were dead last in the preseason in fastbreak defense. Coach Lue has to address this problem early on so that the cavs might be respectable on defense.

 

[Jedi Osman]

What's even the purpose of this switching? Saving energy? Tactic wise it doesn't work that's all i know...

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

So are we tanking?

Lue's rotations and gameplan were nonexistant. I don't get what the heck he is doing lol.

 

[BigZ94]

Agree with everybody Lue is trash, some of those lineups he put out were just awful, Zizic I thought was one of the main reasons for our comeback, not taking any credit away from Clarkson he made some great shots but Zizic set some great screens to get him open, and we all know that if Nance wasn't injured Zizic would not have seen 1 second on the floor.

I would have loved to have seen way more of Nwaba, I thought Clarkson had way too much of a Green light, sure he scores but he is such a ballhog that he takes everybody else out of rhythm. I'm sure any of you that have played basketball at any level have had a guy like this on your team and it sucks because sure he looks good puts up stats but overall brings down the energy of the team, and it's the head coach's responsibility to call him out and get him to pass the damn ball.

And as most of us have been saying since Lue took over, our Defensive scheme has simply been a joke. Last year Lue supporters were blaming it on Lebron being lazy, well he ain't here this year and it still looks terrble. Why on earth do we switch EVERYTHING... Teams with a guys like Leonard, Lowry even Van Vleet WANT mismatches they thrive on them, so why are we giving them for free? Sometimes we switch when there isn't even a screen.. I saw at least 3 plays where off ball Lowry or Leonard would simply run past TT and he would switch onto them??? No screens nothing, which leaves Hill or Sexton guarding somebody like Ibaka in the post and TT chasing a guard, it's just stupid and hasn't worked for 3 years. I don't understand this league wide respect for Lue he's so blatantly incompetent and it's clear as day.

 

[Mavaliersfan]

Why on earth do we switch EVERYTHING... Teams with a guys like Leonard, Lowry even Van Vleet WANT mismatches they thrive on them, so why are we giving them for free? Sometimes we switch when there isn't even a screen.. I saw at least 3 plays where off ball Lowry or Leonard would simply run past TT and he would switch onto them??? No screens nothing, which leaves Hill or Sexton guarding somebody like Ibaka in the post and TT chasing a guard, it's just stupid and hasn't worked for 3 years. I don't understand this league wide respect for Lue he's so blatantly incompetent and it's clear as day.

This has to be the single worst scheme I've ever seen implemented in professional sports. It's fucking maddening. We basically allow teams to exploit any given match-up they desire. I just would love to hear Lue's rationale for this!

 

[Derek]

If your defense isn't switching most screens then your schemes are outdated

There are many reason to criticize Lue. Switching screens isn't one of them.

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

If your defense isn't switching most screens then your schemes are outdated

There are many reason to criticize Lue. Switching screens isn't one of them.

Haha.

There will be even less of a need to switch screens if the refs continue the trend of calling moving screens that they set in pre-season. The only reason to switch screens in the first place was because of the blatant moving screens. Cavs are switching screens even when the defender doesn't make contact.

Freedom of movement rule makes the mismatch all that difficult to overcome now. We allow bad post up players to become highly efficient for absolutely no reason. We allow mediocre PnR players and shooters off the dribble to have an easy match up against our mediocre switching bigs. You can't be serious about it.

Our only switchy perimeter defender is Cedi Osman. We shouldn't switch ever screen that Sexton and Hill are involved in because neither of them is a good post defender at this point.

Our switching also doesn't allow us to run in transition as much as we potentially can because we allow more baskets, more close range attempts, and we need a few guys to effectively secure the boards instead of having them ready on the wings to run in transition after a missed basket.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Haha.

There will be even less of a need to switch screens if the refs continue the trend of calling moving screens that they set in pre-season. The only reason to switch screens in the first place was because of the blatant moving screens. Cavs are switching screens even when the defender doesn't make contact.

Good point.

I suppose one thing to really watch is if the tighter calls on moving screens stay consistent as the season progresses. If it does, then switching should become less common. Not just by the Cavs, but by other teams as well.

I suspect GSW will still get away with moving screens more so than other teams, but since we're really not in a position to compete against them anyway, that shouldn't matter.

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

Good point.

I suppose one thing to really watch is if the tighter calls on moving screens stay consistent as the season progresses. If it does, then switching should become less common. Not just by the Cavs, but by other teams as well.

I suspect GSW will still get away with moving screens more so than other teams, but since we're really not in a position to compete against them anyway, that shouldn't matter.

Yes. They will...I have seen it in PS. They are allowed to have way more leeway than other teams. You have Green blatantly pushing stronger guys than him with both hands whenever he is being posted up. This is a trend that you see with GSW the most, but every 'contender' that the league wants to push gets more leeway than the teams that they have no intention of pushing.

Also, to add to my point; one of the only chances for Sexton being a positive player this year is if he gets to excel in transition -- but how do you want him to get a lot of transition opportunities when he will likely be the person who is furthest away from the other team's basket because he is switched against the other team's big man? We need a big guy that cans secure the rebound by his lonesome and can create tough shots at the rim, and we need our PG to be able to stick with his own guy, contest well and be the first one in transition. We just can't do that with this switching scheme. Did Sexton even get 1 transition opportunity last night?

Cavs coaching staff needs to start from ground up. They are being alzywith this switching defense. It's time to teach the young guys some fundamentals and how to fight over screens effectively.

I also thought Ante had played great D and that starts with communication. He was visibly more comfortable and vocal out there.

 

[greenlaker]

If your defense isn't switching most screens then your schemes are outdated

There are many reason to criticize Lue. Switching screens isn't one of them.

So say you are interviewing for coaching staff and you ask the candidate his or her plan for defensive schemes with the current roster. The answer is "I'll switch everything". And you naturally ask for a detailed explanation why this fits our roster best. And the answer is "Well, everything else is outdated". Would you hire that guy?

What are the upsides of switching?

- It takes off the efficiency of spot-up shooters who cannot create. You can't run them off screens to find open shots. JJ Reddick is less valuable today than 10 years ago.
- You can defend the PnR more effectively
- You don't need to think about how to share the guys after the screen
- Anything else? Please add.

What do you need to effectively do this?

- Since you are switching you need players who can guard multiple positions, who does not suck at anything. You don't need to be perfect at everything but it is crucial that you don't suck at anything. Your five must be like a four, when switched to a guard, shouldn't be exposed badly. Your perimeter players should be able to play 1-2-3-4.

Who do we have?

Well we have Cedi that fits perfectly. And that's it. You need a few more Cedi's. Not only that our roster does not fit the description, they cannot even switch properly. They cannot succeed even in the first category, taking off the open shot, which is the easiest of all.

So it is true that the other defenses are outdated. But so is our roster. In the new drafts teams would be drafting more according to these principles. But right now, this is what we have and you need to make the best out of it. I mean Lue has to make the best out of it.

 

[Derek]

I said switch MOST screens. I agree that personnel should dictate the difference between most and all.

If Hill or Sexton end up on a big, that's because it was poorly communicated by the weak side defenders.

If you see a switch on a 15 PnR, most of the time you should see a rotation by the off ball defenders almost instantly to bring the 4 down to the 5, and get the 1 back to a more comfortable match up.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

So in terms of wondering what makes Lue tick, I know he's a former player and all, and I remember seeing him play only in the sense that you may remember some scrubs on other teams. Couldn't really remember much, but I thought "Hey, I'm going to look up his stats, and see if he is statistically similar to anyone on the Cavs." I figured that maybe looking up his advanced stats might tell me a bit about what kind of players he values....

Mother of God....he played 11 seasons. In every single one of those seasons, he had a negative DBPM, and a negative BPM. In all but 3 of those season, he had a negative VORP. And in all three of those seasons, his VORP was 0.0.

The guy managed to last 11 seasons in the NBA without even once being a positive BPM or VORP player. That's amazing.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/luety01.html

 

[greenlaker]

So in terms of wondering what makes Lue tick, I know he's a former player and all, and I remember seeing him play only in the sense that you may remember some scrubs on other teams. Couldn't really remember much, but I thought "Hey, I'm going to look up his stats, and see if he is statistically similar to anyone on the Cavs." I figured that maybe looking up his advanced stats might tell me a bit about what kind of players he values....

Mother of God....he played 11 seasons. In every single one of those seasons, he had a negative DBPM, and a negative BPM. In all but 3 of those season, he had a negative VORP. And in all three of those seasons, his VORP was 0.0.

The guy managed to last 11 seasons in the NBA without even once being a positive BPM or VORP player. That's amazing.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/luety01.html

Maybe he was too aggressive.

 

[rcj47]

Pushing the pace as much as he is trying to, it's probably not a good idea for Lue to be playing players for very long stretches at a time (Love played entire 1st quarter last night), or 40 minutes per game.

If the goal is to have Love injured before the All-Star break (Cedi too possibly given the way he plays both offense and defense) then keep it up. I think it's crazy to be playing two bigs in Love and Thompson 35 minutes or higher. I add Cedi in here too because of his effort level on both side of the floor.

 

[pinoycavsfan]

This defensive scheme by lue has to go.. it wasnt effective when we had talent (lbj, kyrie, love) and it wouldnt be effective now... Would love to see the team be selective on switches based on the personnel... I think this group has better basketball iq and effort that they can grasp a more complicated defensive scheme...