Week 7 (10/25): Browns (2-4) @ Rams (2-3) [1:00 PM EST, CBS]

[brownindian]

I don't disagree he's dug his own grave here if and when he's fired.

But let's not pretend like this organization was a powderkeg waiting to wreck this league.

Overzealous owner, zero quarterback, little chance to retain free agents eager to get to a better organization.

Almost anyone who takes this position will be coming in to a less than ideal scenario.

You make is sound like the reason Farmer failed was cos he was in the Browns.

Over-Zealous owner ? Apart from the Fraud scandal and the Johnny Pick what else did the owner do that made the job difficult for Farmer ?

As far as Zero QB goes - Josh McCown is not that terrible looking at what he is doing with the Browns and he may perhaps be the best of the bunch in a long time so far. Also, we cant blame Josh McCown for the defense's inability to play well can we?

As far as retaining free agents goes - Apart from a Banged up Jordan Cameroon and Alex Mack who else wanted to leave ? TJ Ward said he got no offer from the Browns. We then let Jabal Sheard walk and the Patriots got him for 2 year 11 million and he seems to be doing good out there stopping the run which now seems to our #1 problem. Also didnt we get Whitner, Dansby, Hartline et all via FA. And the fact that Dwayne Bowe gets to earn 9 million without even playing will make us a very favorable destination for FA's.

I dont see how Farmer walked into a hopeless situation with the Browns and how it was the Browns that hampered him ability. If i completely misunderstood what you said then I would appreciate you putting more info into your statement so i can get it.

 

[Ohdang]

He was one of the more respected assistant GMs in the league before he got the job, so you're talking out of your ass.

One thing that was definitely not wise though was sticking him with a coach that he did not pick.

This. I had high hopes for Farmer in the beginning. I was even one of those people who swore he couldn't possibly have wanted Manziel and it must have been owner meddling. Now, though, as badly as I'd like some consistency in this god forsaken franchise I wouldn't be upset if he was fired. He's really botched this job.

 

[AZ_]

You make is sound like the reason Farmer failed was cos he was in the Browns.

Over-Zealous owner ? Apart from the Fraud scandal and the Johnny Pick what else did the owner do that made the job difficult for Farmer ?

Is that REALLY not enough for you to concede this as a fact?

As far as Zero QB goes - Josh McCown is not that terrible looking at what he is doing with the Browns and he may perhaps be the best of the bunch in a long time so far. Also, we cant blame Josh McCown for the defense's inability to play well can we?

Josh McCown is well below average. The fact that the nicest you could have put this was "Josh McCown is not that terrible looking" is probably a pretty good indicator.

As far as retaining free agents goes - Apart from a Banged up Jordan Cameroon and Alex Mack who else wanted to leave ? TJ Ward said he got no offer from the Browns. We then let Jabal Sheard walk and the Patriots got him for 2 year 11 million and he seems to be doing good out there stopping the run which now seems to our #1 problem. Also didnt we get Whitner, Dansby, Hartline et all via FA. And the fact that Dwayne Bowe gets to earn 9 million without even playing will make us a very favorable destination for FA's.

I don't care if the Browns didn't offer Ward a contract, you think he was going to resign in Cleveland over the Broncos offer? I'm not that naive, I don't think you are either.

Whitner, Dansby and Hartline were all nice additions. End of their career stops, all of them past their best years....but nice.

I don't think there is any question that the league perception of Cleveland is not favorable.

You don't really want to argue that, I'd imagine.

I dont see how Farmer walked into a hopeless situation with the Browns and how it was the Browns that hampered him ability. If i completely misunderstood what you said then I would appreciate you putting more info into your statement so i can get it.

The Browns are not a good situation. Not hopeless by any means, but not good.

How anyone can dispute this, while regime after regime of respected football people cycle through here is beyond me.

 

[MGMT]

I honestly thought Farmer was going to work out better than this through this point in time.

 

[Randolphkeys]

I know I mentioned this elsewhere long ago, but I taught Ward's niece the last year he was in Cleveland. I was led to believe from Ward's family he wanted to come back to Cleveland, but he wanted to get paid his worth. I took that as paid like a Pro Bowl strong safety.

Browns decided to go hard after Whitner because of his locker room presence, and they felt he had a few good years left. Whitner signed with Cleveland well before Ward came to terms with Denver. Family had told me he was surprised.

At the time, reports coming out of the Browns locker room were that Ward still had some growing up to do. However, it would be disingenuous to say he didn't want to come back to Cleveland.

 

[brownindian]

Is that REALLY not enough for you to concede this as a fact?

Josh McCown is well below average. The fact that the nicest you could have put this was "Josh McCown is not that terrible looking" is probably a pretty good indicator.

I don't care if the Browns didn't offer Ward a contract, you think he was going to resign in Cleveland over the Broncos offer? I'm not that naive, I don't think you are either.

Whitner, Dansby and Hartline were all nice additions. End of their career stops, all of them past their best years....but nice.

I don't think there is any question that the league perception of Cleveland is not favorable.

You don't really want to argue that, I'd imagine.

The Browns are not a good situation. Not hopeless by any means, but not good.

How anyone can dispute this, while regime after regime of respected football people cycle through here is beyond me.

How do you split my post into multiple quotes ? I dunno how to do that so i will lump my answer in bullet points.

1. Owner- The handpicked QB of the owner is not seeing playing time, So while he is a waste draft pick, He is not responsible for our offensive or defensive woes. You cant make a bad play if you dont play, right ?
2. Josh McCown - I think you are holding Josh to a higher standard. He is no top tier QB but as a journeyman who has put up 300 + yards and was once the offensive player of the week- I dont think he is a main contributor to our woes.
3. FA - You have a very valid point with with the Ward and Broncos offer, but my point is that in the interview that Ward gave - he said we did not even make an offer for him. Isnt that bad? Isnt it better that you make a solid offer and then let him choose?
4. More FA points - We are not going after top tier agents like Jimmy Graham as like you said, they would not fancy themselves here. Our FA targets that we acquired are reasonable and I think they fill the role of providing the veteran leadership and locker room presence. We still need talent via the draft and to me that seems like a problem area.
5. Cant disagree with you on that again. We have been changing coaches way too often and sometimes unfairly too.

 

[AZ_]

How do you split my post into multiple quotes ? I dunno how to do that so i will lump my answer in bullet points.

1. Owner- The handpicked QB of the owner is not seeing playing time, So while he is a waste draft pick, He is not responsible for our offensive or defensive woes. You cant make a bad play if you dont play, right ?
2. Josh McCown - I think you are holding Josh to a higher standard. He is no top tier QB but as a journeyman who has put up 300 + yards and was once the offensive player of the week- I dont think he is a main contributor to our woes.
3. FA - You have a very valid point with with the Ward and Broncos offer, but my point is that in the interview that Ward gave - he said we did not even make an offer for him. Isnt that bad? Isnt it better that you make a solid offer and then let him choose?
4. More FA points - We are not going after top tier agents like Jimmy Graham as like you said, they would not fancy themselves here. Our FA targets that we acquired are reasonable and I think they fill the role of providing the veteran leadership and locker room presence. We still need talent via the draft and to me that seems like a problem area.
5. Cant disagree with you on that again. We have been changing coaches way too often and sometimes unfairly too.

1. Wrong. The Browns could have easily drafted Teddy Bridgewater instead and focused on building for the future, instead of treading water with McCown because you have no direction and nobody better.

2. I'm holding Josh to the league average standard. I don't think he's the key figure to our woes either, the defense currently is. Right now he's hovering right on that level, slightly below...I don't expect that to continue as the schedule gets tougher.

3. As Keys pointed out, perhaps there were extenuating circumstances with his locker room presence which necessitated that. I'm not going to pretend to know the scoop there, but signing Whitner was a more than adequate replacement.

4. You're absolutely right, this has been the problem era. This is why I've said Farmer dug his own grave with regards to his future. You can have all the other things working against you, but if you're able to find elite talent in the draft...you're off the hook.

 

[spydy13]

This. I had high hopes for Farmer in the beginning. I was even one of those people who swore he couldn't possibly have wanted Manziel and it must have been owner meddling. Now, though, as badly as I'd like some consistency in this god forsaken franchise I wouldn't be upset if he was fired. He's really botched this job.

I agree that I wouldn't be upset if they just clear house, but part of me wants to see if better coaching could get more out of this roster he's built (although I'm sure any remaining Pettine supporters would like to see what he could do with a better roster).

Either way, Jimmy has some tough decisions to make in the coming months and I would truly be surprised if he brings the whole band back together.

 

[Tornicade]

Question is .... would Pettine have played Bridgewater any more than Manziel.

I am rather doubtful

 

[AZ_]

Question is .... would Pettine have played Bridgewater any more than Manziel.

I am rather doubtful

One of them was a four year starter, polished and ready to take the reigns of an NFL offense....the other was Johnny Manziel.

 

[Soda]

Just poking in here to mention that Gurley looks the part in a big way. He did not look like a rookie out there.

 

[Phills14]

Question is .... would Pettine have played Bridgewater any more than Manziel.

I am rather doubtful

I'm really sorry to go down this worm hole but what in the world are you basing this statement on?

 

[The Wizard of Moz]

I'm really sorry to go down this worm hole but what in the world are you basing this statement on?

The fact that all college QBs are created equally and mean ol pettine just hates rookies, duh.

 

[Jordan]

Here are my thoughts for this week.

The good:
1) Duke Johnson Jr. looks like he could develop into a viable passing-down back. I've said at best I can see DJjr becoming a Reggie Bush-type back. I'm not sure he has the upper body and core strength Reggie had, though. Nonetheless, it is a good developmental piece to have.
2) Travis Benjamin looks like he can play in the NFL for awhile. He's fast and runs crisp routes. I don't believe he is a #1 receiver by any means. But definitely a good #2/#3.
3) Gary Barnidge is better than any Tight End we've had since Kellen Winslow Jr. I'm glad he's on the team.

The bad (literally, everything else):
1) For such an expensive offensive line they suck. Seven penalties directly related to the offensive line. Not being able to hold a Rams defense, that albeit is very good, but we couldn't stop anything. I don't know if Pettine has just lost the team and the line doesn't care, the line has become complacent, or what. But it needs to change.
2) The secondary. I understand Joe Haden didn't play but come on guys. Nick Foles is a good QB. But he kept finding wide-open receivers the entire game.
3) The defensive line and linebackers. I under Gurley is a workhorse. But we couldn't tackle at all. I'm still not coming to conclusions on Danny Shelton, as he's doing everything right, but that's the problem. He seems like a fundamentally sound defensive tackle that doesn't do anything exceptional. I get that it takes two guys to stop him. So the fuck what?!? Welcome to the NFL where nearly every defensive tackle takes two guys to stop him.
4) The overall complacency and a lack of a sense of urgency. Every week that goes by I am starting to believe Pettine has lost the team. We just don't seem to care about winning. Honestly, this needs to change. It's not fair to the fans to need to watch this shit week-in and week-out.
5) The big one, we lack so much talent. I've listed players I think could be part of a longterm strategy to make the Browns a winning team:
-Joe Haden
-Joe Thomas
-Joel Bitonio
-Josh McCown (the guy who can help develop our young QB and serve as a backup)
-Duke Johnson Jr.
-Travis Benjamin
-Gary Barnidge
-Travis Coons

That is eight players. Eight fucking players. One of whom is a backup, two are no more than important rotation players, and one is the kicker. That means we have four starting quality players right now. Certain guys like Danny Shelton I'm not sure of yet. But I'd say, at absolute most, there may be twelve players on this team that can play a part of a future winning franchise. I'm sorry guys, but this is embarrassing. I don't know what needs to be done to change it but it starts from the top on down. I'm always one to advocate consistency, and I like Pettine's coaching talent, but if he has truly lost the locker room he needs to go. Farmer definitely needs to go. If I were Haslem, I would fire Farmer today, and start a firesale. Everyone -- even the untouchable Joe Thomas and Joe Haden -- need to be available.

This team is a joke and not deserving of the city. All I can say is, this weekend, I chose to watch Manchester United instead of driving an hour to the Browns Backers bar. I watched the Browns play on a shitty stream. With the Cavs starting now, too, I have no desire to watch this team. Josh McCown, for all of his weaknesses as a QB, plays with more fucking heart than anyone on this roster. I think the injury does lead to Johnny Wifebeater playing. And I'll still root for the Browns. But I can think of no quarterback that is more emblematic of this shitty franchise than Johnny Manziel.

 

[Tornicade]

I'm really sorry to go down this worm hole but what in the world are you basing this statement on?

Bridgewater got his first start after cassel was injured, That wouldnt of Happened in Cleveland and even with 2 solid performances. Browns still likely acquire Mccown who has outperformed Bridgewater this season.