Welcome 8th Pick from Brooklyn

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

Should be but he isn’t. Arizona’s defense is horrible and he’s suppose to be the anchor of it. Hes got all the measurables in the world but so have hundreds of draft busts.

Ayton is not the reason Zona's defense sucks. Sure, Bamba or Jackson would have made them better, but he isn't the the reason it sucks.

The reason it sucks is because of Ristic. He is one of the worst defensive big man in College, and the worst PnR defender in college out of 525players qualified.


Their pairing together is a joke. Ayton shouldn't play the PF position, especially not with a big who can't do every one thing on an average on the defensive end. I don't know who's fault it is, I do know that Ayton views himself as a PF and that's a red flag in itself, but bottom line is that a lot of things are going against him on that end.

Ristic can't step out on the perimeter, can't defend in isolation, can't defend anything really, so the only defensive play styles that he is part of are either post ups, Spot ups and PnR(he sucks in all of them)...so that makes Ayton have to compensate for the lack of versatility and taka huge chunk of defensive assignments that he has no business being a part of. He has to defend most of the time on the perimeter, and he has to make a tons of defensive rotations that other center do not have to do deal with... He also hard Hedges every PnR he is involved with and when he is involved with Trier, it's a disaster. A very similar defensive scheme to Kevin Love with Kyrie.

I'm certainly not absolving him of blame, as he has his fair share of problem especially in post ups situations where he doesn't put a body or shows no defensive instincts and timing on his contests, but Sean Miller has done a pretty bad job with Ayton so far this season.

On the offensive end, I wished he put the ball more on the floor and attacked harder at times and showed a bit more consistent shot from range, but watching this Arizona spacing tough... it almost looks like they are playing hand, so you really have to take everything with a grain of salt and be ready for the possibility that he isn't showing everything in his arsenal.

Most issues I have with him are mental and are related to his character. Defensive issues are there, but I put a lot of blame on Sean Miller and Arizona... especially the you compare him to Bamba where he just has to stand inside the key and block shots. Ayton has to defend similar to the NBA while being out of position.

 

[Alec]

Rubios “lack of athleticism” has never hurt him on either end.

He’s a good defender and he has great hands, good anticipation. He could really benefit from being a better athlete. Especially when finishing

 

[Nathan S]

Guys like Rubio, and half the NBA really, would probably love to have Doncic's body.
















































No, not like that...perv...

 

[RchfldCavRaised]

Rubios “lack of athleticism” has never hurt him on either end. If he could score and shoot like Doncic he would be a perennial all-star!

If you’re good enough with the ball, the explosiveness of your first step is much less important. I don’t think Doncic is gonna have any problems getting to the rim and if he’s allowed to play enough pick and roll I don’t see how he ends up anything but a monster offensive player in terms of production and efficiency.

You can pick out just as many “quick first step” busts as you can “not as quick Eurolean guy” busts.

Can’t teach his feel for the game.

Rubio has been a really good defender, I agree there.

Though I dont see some world beating scoring ability for Doncic, I love his feel for the game. However, there have been quite a few guys who I've loved for their feel for the game that I would never consider drafting with #1's. Terry Porter, Rod Strickland, Mark Jackson... I loved Jalen Rose's feel for the game but would have never taken him with a lottery pick even as a big PG.

Now if his feel were Jason Kidd-esque, we'd be having a different conversation.

When I watch Doncic play (yesterday made 3rd full game), I see a guy who has some great feel and good intangibles but who also will always be limited and dependent on coaching/system/matchups.

He's not #1 overall material and I dont want him Cleveland

 

[wremy]

Guys none of this is gonna matter when we trade it for AD and go on to win the next 3 NBA titles

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

Rubio has been a really good defender, I agree there.

Though I dont see some world beating scoring ability for Doncic, I love his feel for the game. However, there have been quite a few guys who I've loved for their feel for the game that I would never consider drafting with #1's. Terry Porter, Rod Strickland, Mark Jackson... I loved Jalen Rose's feel for the game but would have never taken him with a lottery pick even as a big PG.

Now if his feel were Jason Kidd-esque, we'd be having a different conversation.

When I watch Doncic play (yesterday made 3rd full game), I see a guy who has some great feel and good intangibles but who also will always be limited and dependent on coaching/system/matchups.

He's not #1 overall material and I dont want him Cleveland

I feel your concern on “#1 material “.

Even though I have Doncic on top right now and think he could go 1....I do think in a draft this strong you are looking for a surefire franchise guy up there and maybe Doncic could be that but it does seem like the athletic European big men(like KP) are the true NBA stars over there and the perimeter guys all fit into a general mold which is effective but not elite when translated to the NBA. I think Luka can maybe break that mold but at the same time it goes back to the whole “they call it a stereotype for a reason” stuff.

I dunno. I kinda would be okay with being in a position in the draft, hopefully still top 5, but where we don’t have the opportunity to make the call on Doncic and either hit or miss on him.

I’m a big Porter Jr. guy if the medical stuff checks out. If he comes back and looks good physically before the end of the season I think he vaults to #1 on my board and if the medicals check out he’s a guy with a#1 game, body, and athleticism that could realistically drop as low as like 7 or 8 depending how spooked teams that absolutely cannot take any risk are(i feel like we are a team that can take on the risk profile of Porter Jr given our situation with or without LeBron)

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

I feel your concern on “#1 material “.

Even though I have Doncic on top right now and think he could go 1....I do think in a draft this strong you are looking for a surefire franchise guy up there and maybe Doncic could be that but it does seem like the athletic European big men(like KP) are the true NBA stars over there and the perimeter guys all fit into a general mold which is effective but not elite when translated to the NBA. I think Luka can maybe break that mold but at the same time it goes back to the whole “they call it a stereotype for a reason” stuff.

I dunno. I kinda would be okay with being in a position in the draft, hopefully still top 5, but where we don’t have the opportunity to make the call on Doncic and either hit or miss on him.

I’m a big Porter Jr. guy if the medical stuff checks out. If he comes back and looks good physically before the end of the season I think he vaults to #1 on my board and if the medicals check out he’s a guy with a#1 game, body, and athleticism that could realistically drop as low as like 7 or 8 depending how spooked teams that absolutely cannot take any risk are(i feel like we are a team that can take on the risk profile of Porter Jr given our situation with or without LeBron)

I know nothing about him -- what is the supposed "risk profile" on Porter Jr.?

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

I know nothing about him -- what is the supposed "risk profile" on Porter Jr.?

The “minor” back surgery he had that’s kept him out the whole season so far.

 

[sleepmaster]

If we get Porter or one of the three centers then it becomes possible to call the Kyrie trade a success. The risk with Porter is if the remaining herniated disc disintegrates and they have to clean it out and fuse the vertebrae, which would be well after Lebron retires, so I'm not worried about Porter unless they shaved off an unusually large part of the disc. When I was Porter's age, I was diagnosed with a low back herniated disc but never had surgery. I'm more worried about Kevin Love's back.

 

[RchfldCavRaised]

I’m a big Porter Jr. guy if the medical stuff checks out. If he comes back and looks good physically before the end of the season I think he vaults to #1 on my board and if the medicals check out he’s a guy with a#1 game, body, and athleticism that could realistically drop as low as like 7 or 8 depending how spooked teams that absolutely cannot take any risk are(i feel like we are a team that can take on the risk profile of Porter Jr given our situation with or without LeBron)

I've been holding firm on him being my #3 guy without seeing him at this level and if he does get back before the tourney and shows SOME of what Simmons showed while working off the rust, then he could tip toe by Ayton for me for #2 on my wishlist.

I love his game and I really think he will translate well if his back holds up. He has a competitiveness where he really has a COOL about him when the lights are turned up brightest. I cant quantify it, but I've seen it in his HS games.

A year ago, my business partner was down in Watercolor Fla for Easter and MPJ and his family were in town at a resort near my partners beach house after committing to Missouri. His 13 and 10 yr old sons interacted with MPJ at the pool one day, and the next day, MPJ and two of his younger brothers invited to 13 yr old to shoot around with them and gave him some tips on drills and things like that... totally unprovoked. He's a really good character guy, has a strong leadership quality off the court and will be a star if he stays healthy at the next level.

 

[MediumBaller]

Landing Porter Jr. would be awesome. I still prefer trading it for an all-star before the draft, but Porter would be a nice player to pair with LeBron if he's good physically.

 

[RuanuLaw]

Yes, that's definitely a point against him

If anyone's seriously concerned about him having the agility of Enes Kanter, DX did a nice video on his defense after Eurobasket last fall, which I posted in the other thread:

The Defense looks good, but I fear that he will constantly find himself in foul trouble. I might be VERY wrong here, but he seems very aggressive when playing D.

But, and I mean a HUGEEEEE but...if he is able to play the same type of D in the NBA and is ALLOWED to play the same way he is accustomed to...then he will be awesome to have on the team.

Can some of you pitch in...does his Defense look "illegal-ish" for the NBA game, or will he be OK?

 

[Nathan S]

The Defense looks good, but I fear that he will constantly find himself in foul trouble. I might be VERY wrong here, but he seems very aggressive when playing D.

But, and I mean a HUGEEEEE but...if he is able to play the same type of D in the NBA and is ALLOWED to play the same way he is accustomed to...then he will be awesome to have on the team.

Can some of you pitch in...does his Defense look "illegal-ish" for the NBA game, or will he be OK?

Not my area of expertise...I expect he'll have to learn and adjust his game some, as is the case for all rookies. My main point is that he's certainly not a lost cause on that end. He has good enough tools to be a solid system defender with good coaching.

 

[Heej]

The thing with Doncic is that on the ball his first step matters less the more his change of pace is developed. He can very well be a bigger slower James Harden that's a lot more fiery, and pairing that with Lebron would be devastating. He can get by with a slower first step by being a bit more shifty in his dribble and changing heights, speed, and direction while throwing defenders off balance with his shooting ability.

I think speed matters less than IQ and strength, and Doncic is pretty damn strong. And he's not even on an NBA "weight training" program yet. I mean look at how doughy his arms look. He'll very likely be able to defend the power wings (Giannis MPJ Simmons and more in the future) that Cedi can't and LeBron doesn't want to. Cedi will have the footspeed to guard the quicker wings and guards.

 

[czvo]

I've been holding firm on him being my #3 guy without seeing him at this level and if he does get back before the tourney and shows SOME of what Simmons showed while working off the rust, then he could tip toe by Ayton for me for #2 on my wishlist.

I love his game and I really think he will translate well if his back holds up. He has a competitiveness where he really has a COOL about him when the lights are turned up brightest. I cant quantify it, but I've seen it in his HS games.

A year ago, my business partner was down in Watercolor Fla for Easter and MPJ and his family were in town at a resort near my partners beach house after committing to Missouri. His 13 and 10 yr old sons interacted with MPJ at the pool one day, and the next day, MPJ and two of his younger brothers invited to 13 yr old to shoot around with them and gave him some tips on drills and things like that... totally unprovoked. He's a really good character guy, has a strong leadership quality off the court and will be a star if he stays healthy at the next level.

Yeah, I don't know how many people know about the Porters, but there are like 10 kids, and everyone that knows that family just raves about them. I've never heard anyone say one bad word about anyone in that family, it's kind of amazing. Not even an offhand comment about how one of the kids, one time, was maybe, kind of, rude in a Chipotle once. Just nothing but compliments.