Theoretically Ante Zizic

[cavsfever]

The reason is SEEMS like they had 12 players all averaging 12+ minutes every game is because most of their main guys played between 63-74 games. But on a per game basis, Pop uses a 8-9 man rotations

It doesn't SEEM like they have 12 players averaging 12+ minutes a game, they DO have 12 players averaging 12+ minutes a game. True that they don't do it every game, but over the course of the season. Resting players for games doesn't make it fake. By definition if they rest players a lot they won't go 12 deep every game -- because guys are resting so they're not playing. But going 12 deep year in, year out, over the entire regular season is how they keep their players rested and learn everyone's skills so they can be best used situationally in the playoffs. Good lesson for us to learn, especially with our roster being so deep this year.

However, even the Spurs don't really go beyond about 12 players averaging 10+ minutes a game for more than half the season, so unless we make a special effort we will have trouble making use of our entire roster 1-15. Truth is that with Felder/RJ gone all 15 players on our regular season roster could be seen as deserving of minutes. Calderon will get no minutes once IT returns, Frye probably won't get minutes, then who? Will Cedi and Zizic get frozen out? Will Lue have the guts to keep Wade's minutes down where they probably should be?

Really, the special thing about our roster this year is the depth, and I wonder if Lue will be creative enough to make full use of it.

 

[MirORich]

It doesn't SEEM like they have 12 players averaging 12+ minutes a game, they DO have 12 players averaging 12+ minutes a game. True that they don't do it every game, but over the course of the season. Resting players for games doesn't make it fake. By definition if they rest players a lot they won't go 12 deep every game -- because guys are resting so they're not playing. But going 12 deep year in, year out, over the entire regular season is how they keep their players rested and learn everyone's skills so they can be best used situationally in the playoffs. Good lesson for us to learn, especially with our roster being so deep this year.

However, even the Spurs don't really go beyond about 12 players averaging 10+ minutes a game for more than half the season, so unless we make a special effort we will have trouble making use of our entire roster 1-15. Truth is that with Felder/RJ gone all 15 players on our regular season roster could be seen as deserving of minutes. Calderon will get no minutes once IT returns, Frye probably won't get minutes, then who? Will Cedi and Zizic get frozen out? Will Lue have the guts to keep Wade's minutes down where they probably should be?

Really, the special thing about our roster this year is the depth, and I wonder if Lue will be creative enough to make full use of it.

You misread my sentence. I said it seems like they have 12 players avg 12+ minutes every game. Which they don't. Because of injuries, rest games, and blowouts where they actually held on to their early leads, they were able to get 12 guys good minutes over the course of the season. But on an individual game by game basis, Pop played 8-9 guys rotation minutes, just like the Cavs and most other teams.

In fact, if you go by the simple MPG average, the Cavs had 14 guys who averaged 10+ minutes per game last season.

The only point I'm making is that it's a myth that on an individual game basis that the Spurs has a deeper/longer rotation than the Cavs, which people bring up to make the argument that somehow the Spurs put a higher priority on developing their younger players.

The truth is, the Spurs, unlike the Cavs actually had legit young guys to develop(Murray, Bertans, Anderson). Guys they had invested first round picks in. But unless it was a blowout or rest/injury game for a regular, those guys were not seeing minutes.

 

[tocov]

I think the physicality and energy it takes to guard opposing centers will not bode well for Love offensively. Its like a QB, when they get hit enough times, they typically lose accuracy. Theres a reason most all centers dont shoot from 3.

I dont think Love will stay at the 5 very long.

I agree with this 100%. It's a concern I raised before.
Love is going to get MAULED by big centers on both sides, especially on defense. Then you expect him to make plays and keep his accuracy when he's beaten up and exhausted. It just doesn't work. Not everybody is LeBron James.

 

[abrahavt]

The reason LeBron refuses to play center is because of the physical abuse your body takes in banging with the big centers. If a super human like LeBron cant handle it how is Love supposed to?

 

[Cassity14]

What centers are we afraid of taking advantage of Love?

It's the worst position in the NBA for a reason, and Love creates more of a mismatch in favor of the Cavs' offense than the other way around.

If a team wants to run their offense through some stiff posting up Love every play, let them.

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

What centers are we afraid of taking advantage of Love?

It's the worst position in the NBA for a reason, and Love creates more of a mismatch in favor of the Cavs' offense than the other way around.

If a team wants to run their offense through some stiff posting up Love every play, let them.

That's why it's great for the playoffs and not in the RS.

In the playoffs you can still battle out in the post even if you lack the size and strength and still be fairly efficient on the other side.. But asking Love to figh taller, bigger and stronger men for a full season is pushing it tooo far.

He lost the weight so we could move better on the perimeter, and now in order for him to compete better on the defensive end, he is going to have to bulk up and that is going to screw up his shot and even his movement on the perimeter that he got so much better at and in turn lose the whole purpose as to why we moved him to the 5 in the first place.

The end goal is to beat GSW and to match up better against them on both ends of the floor. I'd argue and say that Love has been a better switch defender against the Warriors. Moving Love to the 5 also allows us to only have 1 prototypical big man as opposed to 2 and as a result have a defense that is far more suited to switching.

I'm not opposed to having Love at the 5, but not for a full season.. that can be catastrophic for player that has had back problems the last few years and is going to have to compensate in order to fight the bigger guys.

 

[Mavaliersfan]

That's why it's great for the playoffs and not in the RS.

In the playoffs you can still battle out in the post even if you lack the size and strength and still be fairly efficient on the other side.. But asking Love to figh taller, bigger and stronger men for a full season is pushing it tooo far.

He lost the weight so we could move better on the perimeter, and now in order for him to compete better on the defensive end, he is going to have to bulk up and that is going to screw up his shot and even his movement on the perimeter that he got so much better at and in turn lose the whole purpose as to why we moved him to the 5 in the first place.

The end goal is to beat GSW and to match up better against them on both ends of the floor. I'd argue and say that Love has been a better switch defender against the Warriors. Moving Love to the 5 also allows us to only have 1 prototypical big man as opposed to 2 and as a result have a defense that is far more suited to switching.

I'm not opposed to having Love at the 5, but not for a full season.. that can be catastrophic for player that has had back problems the last few years and is going to have to compensate in order to fight the bigger guys.

I have to agree. It's good to experiment with him at center for some stretches of the season so you can go to it in the playoffs. But not for a full 82! My hope is Zizic steadily improves throughout the season so that come March, April he can slide into the starting lineup alongside Love at the 4. I think someone mentioned a lineup of IT, Bron, Crowder, KL, Zizic, which is very intriguing.

Just imagine our 2nd unit of...

Rose
Wade
JR
Green
Tristan

That lineup alone could win 25-30 games in the east.

 

[Dshuks]

Why isn't this guy playing more?

He shouldn't only be part of the victory cigar/blowout loss lineup. We could use his size and mobility.

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

He should start. Can't see any real weakness to his game that is going to make our starting lineup worse. Take Wade out and either insert him or TT again.

Lue put Love at C to make the spacing better for Wade, but I also think he did it to match up better against GSW. It's a mistake and I think we need to go big in the RS. Atleast at the start.

I'd bet good money that if he plays with competent players around him on the floor, he is a net positive from the second he steps on that floor.

He is our best PnR defender already.. his positional awareness and understanding of the game is rare for a 20 year old.

Cedi Otoh judging even by his body language is very very nervous and out of sorts. He is not ready, especially how we run the offense.

 

[LeeBuckeye]

Exactly, having Love play the 5 all year will destroy his body the way it ruined Tristan last year. Love is already not the most durable player.

Green played the 5 in spurts NOT every minute he was out there. Lue is honestly clueless. The 35 game span is 2015 was probably the most dominant I've seen from any Cavaliers team and having a legit Big in Mozgov protecting the paint on a LeBron team was something to behold. Zizic could surprise us even more if he shares the floor with Love/LeBron/Crowder.

 

[Benedict_Boozer]

Exactly, having Love play the 5 all year will destroy his body the way it ruined Tristan last year. Love is already not the most durable player.

Green played the 5 in spurts NOT every minute he was out there. Lue is honestly clueless. The 35 game span is 2015 was probably the most dominant I've seen from any Cavaliers team and having a legit Big in Mozgov protecting the paint on a LeBron team was something to behold. Zizic could surprise us even more if he shares the floor with Love/LeBron/Crowder.

Totally agree but will never happen with Lue. He will go back to TT/Love or even Frye before he plays Zizic. The fact Zizic was not even active when Rose was playing says it all.

 

[Gus Zing]

Exactly, having Love play the 5 all year will destroy his body the way it ruined Tristan last year. Love is already not the most durable player.

Green played the 5 in spurts NOT every minute he was out there. Lue is honestly clueless. The 35 game span is 2015 was probably the most dominant I've seen from any Cavaliers team and having a legit Big in Mozgov protecting the paint on a LeBron team was something to behold. Zizic could surprise us even more if he shares the floor with Love/LeBron/Crowder.

Totally agree but will never happen with Lue. He will go back to TT/Love or even Frye before he plays Zizic. The fact Zizic was not even active when Rose was playing says it all.

In fairness to Lue he never got a healthy Mozgov his first year. As much as I like Zizic I'm not seeing the athleticism, shotblocking and catch and finish like Moz. Remember for that short period of time Cavs fans could legitimately debate if he was as good or better than Whiteside.

I think he deserves a few mins but he's still just 20. No need to rush him along either if he's not ready to deal with the NBA grind yet.

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

In fairness to Lue he never got a healthy Mozgov his first year. As much as I like Zizic I'm not seeing the athleticism, shotblocking and catch and finish like Moz. Remember for that short period of time Cavs fans could legitimately debate if he was as good or better than Whiteside.

I think he deserves a few mins but he's still just 20. No need to rush him along either if he's not ready to deal with the NBA grind yet.

Hmm, Moz was great on defense for what we needed at the time, he was long and knew how to use his size to contest well at the rim without fouling.. but he wasn't a high IQ defender. He wasn't good at reading the defense and was late on rotations at times.. couldn't defend in space and couldn't recover well enough at times, especially after that injury.

As far as hit shotblocking, he was never a shot blocker.. Zizic and Moz use similar technique to contest at the rim and I think Zizic has great timing on his jumps and I also project him to be a better shot blocker, especially against smaller guards.

Moz was athletic, he was definitely better at running the floor pre-injury and was a huge lob target, but in order to finish he first had to catch the ball which he was atrocious at. The number of TOs that were a result of his poor hands can not be understated.. he cost him and the team bunch of points each game.

I think Zizic has much better hands and has a soft feathery touch to finish inside. He isnt close to being this huge lob target that was Moz, but he doesn't have to be. He is big enough to get the ball down low, duck, gather and finish over length with great efficiency. Reason Tristan gets most of his passes out of the PnR for a lob is because if he gets a normal pass, he is just too small to finish with good efficiency when he has to gather and finish over bigger centers.

And the biggest difference is that Moz was soft and bad as a rebounder, while Zizic projects to excel in that area which helps the defense aswell.

Moz was never as good as Whiteside. I remember that debate and I was on Moz side, but it was only because Moz seemed like a perfect fit because he could run the floor and had a pretty good mid range game that Whiteside just didn't have at the time. But I think we just wanted to believe so because we gave up 2 1st rounders and he was after all a Cavalier. Also Whiteside seemed like a headcase so there's that.


I look at Zizic and I think he is up to the task.. I don't expect it to happen, but he can us very good minutes and he doesn't look fazed. I hope we play him at some point this season, sooner the better.

Again though, I'm concerned for Cedi, doesn't look like he gets any guidance.. playing him only in blowouts I think can also ruin his confidence. Watch him on the floor and see how jittery he is, how uncomfortable he looks and how much he plays with his mouthguard. Looks like a kid.

 

[Dreaded Cav]

I look at Zizic and I think he is up to the task.. I don't expect it to happen, but he can us very good minutes and he doesn't look fazed. I hope we play him at some point this season, sooner the better.

I'd love to just see a few minutes of him playing next to Love here and there to see what we really have. The fact it didn't even happen in the preseason gives me little hope of it actually happening though, especially since he's usually one of the last off the bench... for some reason. The garbage time minutes playing with backups are next to useless.

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

I'd love to just see a few minutes of him playing next to Love here and there to see what we really have. The fact it didn't even happen in the preseason gives me little hope of it actually happening though, especially since he's usually one of the last off the bench... for some reason. The garbage time minutes playing with backups are next to useless.

Im not very optimistic because he was in street clothes before Rose got injured.. I don't think he is even in Lue's mind at the moment, but if he kills it in practice then we I can only hope he gets some time.