Theoretically Ante Zizic

[TitleTown]

Im not very optimistic because he was in street clothes before Rose got injured.. I don't think he is even in Lue's mind at the moment, but if he kills it in practice then we I can only hope he gets some time.

It would be stupid to integrate Zizic right now.

Once we get our primary rotations figured out, then we can find ways to insert him against shitty teams.

Until then, he's a practice dummy. And that's all he should be in the short term.

There will be plenty of chances for him to earn time over the long 82 game season.

 

[Cavatt]

The screen setting with the first group is so bad. It is hard to justify not having a good screener out there.

 

[kookoo]

Memphis beat the Warriors by playing tough. Having Love at the 5 isn't tough. Lue is seriously fucking up everything by not putting a real center as the starter. Love at the 4 is always a much better fit for the bulk of the game.

 

[Joe Henderson]

Memphis beat the Warriors by playing tough. Having Love at the 5 isn't tough. Lue is seriously fucking up everything by not putting a real center as the starter. Love at the 4 is always a much better fit for the bulk of the game.

Because a 20-year-old rookie would definitely be just as effective as Marc Gasol?
Come on, Lue's obviously not 'seriously fucking up everything'
-first of all, we have no idea how good Zizic can be in the actual NBA.
-who knows what the lineups and rotations will look like next week, let alone in June. It's been four games and three starting lineups so far. There will be many more as they figure things out
-'real center' is not the direction the NBA has been headed. Who knows what Zizic can do, but there's not a lot of evidence that supports the idea that a traditional center would be super effective against GSW. The skillset of successful modern centers seems much closer to Love's than, say, Mozgov's. Look around the up-and-comers...

I just don't get how there's a movement to start a guy we haven't even seen yet. I guess it's just along the lines of the old adage about how the best player is always the one not playing, but it's baffling that people can go into meltdown mode over this.

(unless i'm missing something and this whole thing is in the mold of the Luke Harangody fan club, in which case I apologize for my stiff brain)

 

[Arketebel]

Zizic per 36:

20.6 PTS
20.6 TRB
10.3 BLK

Get off your hands, Lue!

 

[kookoo]

Because a 20-year-old rookie would definitely be just as effective as Marc Gasol?
Come on, Lue's obviously not 'seriously fucking up everything'
-first of all, we have no idea how good Zizic can be in the actual NBA.
-who knows what the lineups and rotations will look like next week, let alone in June. It's been four games and three starting lineups so far. There will be many more as they figure things out
-'real center' is not the direction the NBA has been headed. Who knows what Zizic can do, but there's not a lot of evidence that supports the idea that a traditional center would be super effective against GSW. The skillset of successful modern centers seems much closer to Love's than, say, Mozgov's. Look around the up-and-comers...

I just don't get how there's a movement to start a guy we haven't even seen yet. I guess it's just along the lines of the old adage about how the best player is always the one not playing, but it's baffling that people can go into meltdown mode over this.

(unless i'm missing something and this whole thing is in the mold of the Luke Harangody fan club, in which case I apologize for my stiff brain)

Did I even mention Marc Gasol. I was just saying what style of play we need to beat Golden State. Not this going small BS everyone thinks can be more effective. I commend Lue for making changes yesterday and realizing Love at the 5 permanently doesn't work... We're not going to find out how good Zizic is in the NBA unless we give him a real shot. As good as practises can be, you never know a guy's true potential until he's in-game. Hell, there are practise killers who suck in game or aren't as effective... I'm hoping Lue at some point gives him a shot and it's not because his hand is forced due to injury. Let's see...

Who cares what direction the NBA is headed in? You make people adjust to you, not the other way around.

 

[TitleTown]

Did I even mention Marc Gasol. I was just saying what style of play we need to beat Golden State. Not this going small BS everyone thinks can be more effective. I commend Lue for making changes yesterday and realizing Love at the 5 permanently doesn't work... We're not going to find out how good Zizic is in the NBA unless we give him a real shot. As good as practises can be, you never know a guy's true potential until he's in-game. Hell, there are practise killers who suck in game or aren't as effective... I'm hoping Lue at some point gives him a shot and it's not because his hand is forced due to injury. Let's see...

Who cares what direction the NBA is headed in? You make people adjust to you, not the other way around.

I mostly agree with this, but...

It's a long season. Injuries and chances to play will come along for Zizic.

No need to force the situation right now while we're trying to figure out our core rotations.

 

[Joe Henderson]

Did I even mention Marc Gasol. I was just saying what style of play we need to beat Golden State. Not this going small BS everyone thinks can be more effective. I commend Lue for making changes yesterday and realizing Love at the 5 permanently doesn't work... We're not going to find out how good Zizic is in the NBA unless we give him a real shot. As good as practises can be, you never know a guy's true potential until he's in-game. Hell, there are practise killers who suck in game or aren't as effective... I'm hoping Lue at some point gives him a shot and it's not because his hand is forced due to injury. Let's see...

Who cares what direction the NBA is headed in? You make people adjust to you, not the other way around.

You cited Memphis, therefore the Gasol reference. My point is that the fact that an All-NBA, All-Defense level former DPOY hyper skilled center had success in this context has zero correlation with what's reasonable to expect from a rookie.

Sure, Zizic needs a shot and I really hope he'll get it. But it's quite understandable that getting him playing time isn't a high priority for Lue right now.

In terms of where the NBA is headed... the point i was trying to make is that "traditional" centers aren't very useful in the current environment. And even more importantly that we have no idea if Zizic could even stay on the floor against the Warriors, let alone make a difference. I know it sounds badass to say that you make people adjust to you but where's the evidence that he is the type of player that will force anyone into an adjustment?

But mainly, how is Lue "seriously fucking everything up" by not starting a guy that none of us has any idea can even play in the league? This is what you said and i'm sorry, but it doesn't make any sense.

 

[Dreaded Cav]

Yes the NBA has been heading into the direction of small ball because of the Warriors success, but it's completely suicidal when no one has a prayer, including us of matching GS's lineup. Putting 5 small guys out there doesn't mean we can match up. They have three of the greatest shooters in the history of the game plus Draymond and if we go into the finals with Love at center we get swept with ease. (unless of course we have that one perfect shooting night)

The teams actually giving GS issues happen to be teams like SA & Memphis. Pop, the best coach of the league's best franchise has shown no interest in going small with his primary lineup, despite the fact he likely doesn't have the horses to actually beat GSW with his front line well past their prime, but he certainly understands it is the best way to beat them. Zizic despite his youth at least needs a look running with the starters along side Love. I think Love would look a whole lot better as well.

On our current path i'll just have to hope for a miracle with Bron & IT going absolute god mode and scoring at least 40 per game... maybe that makes it a close series.

 

[kookoo]

You cited Memphis, therefore the Gasol reference. My point is that the fact that an All-NBA, All-Defense level former DPOY hyper skilled center had success in this context has zero correlation with what's reasonable to expect from a rookie.

Sure, Zizic needs a shot and I really hope he'll get it. But it's quite understandable that getting him playing time isn't a high priority for Lue right now.

In terms of where the NBA is headed... the point i was trying to make is that "traditional" centers aren't very useful in the current environment. And even more importantly that we have no idea if Zizic could even stay on the floor against the Warriors, let alone make a difference. I know it sounds badass to say that you make people adjust to you but where's the evidence that he is the type of player that will force anyone into an adjustment?

But mainly, how is Lue "seriously fucking everything up" by not starting a guy that none of us has any idea can even play in the league? This is what you said and i'm sorry, but it doesn't make any sense.

Memphis has played in that style since before Marc. That's what I'm trying to say. And they've always given Golden State trouble. You're focusing on the wrong thing man. I'm not saying Zizic is going to be Marc Gasol or close. I'm trying to say the way to beat the Warriors is by playing hard nosed defense. They're all bitches and any contact makes them weaker mentally. Sorry, but you're reading my posts completely wrong.

Traditional centers are essentially on every single team. Not sure why you think that doesn't exist more. The only difference is all the centers are adding range. In fact, Tristan is probably the smallest starting center in the league... And likely has the least range outside of maybe DJ... Draymond is only situationally their center. So this thing that you're trying to bring out as fact... Yeah, it's completely incorrect. Laughably so. Please look though the list of starting 5s and tell me size wise doesn't count as a traditional center...

This league is about situations. You have to see who is the best person to play against the teams you're going up against. Sure, there are times a guy like Zizic shouldn't see the floor. But how are you going to know what his abilities are in-game if you don't give him a try. It's so much better to try this early on in the season while your team is trying to develop chemistry. Why would you wait until someone gets injured to work him into the rotation? It is not understandable at all that for the position we're lacking depth, to not try guys who can give you minutes. I mean, think about Tristan for a second. He's a defensive big who can't defend or score outside of allyoops. Why does he belong in the rotation? Over a guy who seems to have a solid post game, a little bit of a jumper and toughness... Could you imagine staying big but not having to worry about teams just playing off him knowing he's not going to score?

Again, he may not pan out. But this is the time to see whether or not he belongs here. The adjustment period when you can try out new things... Unleash ZZ!

 

[kookoo]

I mostly agree with this, but...

It's a long season. Injuries and chances to play will come along for Zizic.

No need to force the situation right now while we're trying to figure out our core rotations.

I know... But I don't want an injury to be the only reason he lets ZZ play. And this is absolutely the time to give him a shot. Like you said, we're trying to figure out our core rotation. If Zizic actually plays well, you don't want to have to change your core rotation a month before the playoffs start. This is where you get to experiment. Like LeBron at the 1.

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

I know... But I don't want an injury to be the only reason he lets ZZ play. And this is absolutely the time to give him a shot. Like you said, we're trying to figure out our core rotation. If Zizic actually plays well, you don't want to have to change your core rotation a month before the playoffs start. This is where you get to experiment. Like LeBron at the 1.

As much as I like Ante (and think he could produce with LBJ), he’s a rookie. He’s extremely young. His European experience has him far ahead of his peers skill and body-wise.

But I am fine with him just learning without playing for this year. We have so many guys Lue is already dealing with having to play, I see no need to complicate it with the young guys.

Let them get their time in during blowouts, extreme foul trouble, injury emergencies, and rest days. We really don’t need to know whether they can play or not this year. Both of them are going to be here next year unless they get traded.

I just don’t think it’s time to try to force a rookie into a rotation when we already are hard at work integrating a whole new group of guys into our core team as a contender.

I think Zizic will get some chances this year. Tristan already had a sore knee. And we ran him into the ground last year...and I know for a fact the Cavs regret that. He was out of gas by the Finals. The Cavs aren’t going to do that this year

Just be patient with it. He’s a good prospect but he’s not a factor in this years equation.

 

[JMoneyYourHoney]

But I am fine with him just learning without playing for this year. We have so many guys Lue is already dealing with having to play, I see no need to complicate it with the young guys.

The problem with that though is that Zizic offers a skillset that nobody else on this roster provides and is something that has sorely been missing the past couple seasons...rim protection.

I get where the league has been trending but you still need a traditional, bruising center to provide some size down low, alter and block shots, even if it's for spot minutes.

Spiting our less-than-stellar defense just because he's a rookie is foolish to me. If he can cover what is currently one of our biggest holes, then a little playing time could go a long way.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

And even more importantly that we have no idea if Zizic could even stay on the floor against the Warriors, let alone make a difference. I know it sounds badass to say that you make people adjust to you but where's the evidence that he is the type of player that will force anyone into an adjustment?

Where's the evidence that he won't? Isn't that the kind of thing it would be nice to know before crunch time? And how are we going to know unless he gets minutes?

I agree that there's no reason to be starting him now. But the league has quite recently seen a resurgence of big men in Embiid, KAT, and even young Euros like Jokic, who was basically just an afterthought in the second round. You don't really know what you've got without some meaningful minutes. And quite honestly, we don't have anyone else remotely capable of matching up against those young big men size-wise anyway.

I don't see the logic in essentially punting on Zizic and Osman as potential contributors this year. We don't have enough young legs in our lineup to simply assume they can't contribute.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

We have so many guys Lue is already dealing with having to play, I see no need to complicate it with the young guys.

I do.

We lack length/youth on the perimeter, and length/size under the basket. That isn't going to emerge from our gaggle of geezers no matter how much Lue sees them play.

I don't think our roster is so overwhelming that we can afford to write off first-round quality young talent as being entirely unable to contribute this year. Especially considering who we'd probably face in the Finals, taking some risks early on to ensure that we're not leaving any stones unturned actually seems like the safest course.