Wild Speculation

[pr26]

Perhaps, but tonight is probably the 2nd biggest day of moves in the NBA other than July 1st and the Cavaliers desperately need to get young talent.

I'm not saying they should go all out and get Al Jefferson or Monta Ellis. I am saying that the Cavaliers need to make a substantial move to improve their future of the franchise. I'd be saying this even if we had LeBron under contract, because the future of this team is garbage. It is JJ and....

The Cavaliers NEED to get a higher pick and an elite young talent. We have only had one since the franchise inception, which is probably why we have 0 titles. I'm not saying that we need to sell the entire franchise down for a top 5 pick, but we need to make some sort of move for a top 20 pick.

Right...because even if we landed Bosh in a S&T and upgraded our roster through trades.... Lebron would say "meh..... no draft pick in the top 20 this year? Nah, don't wanna stay."


It would be NICE to get a nice young piece and would be a good step, but it's not the biggest necessity.

Cavs will def try to get a guy they like.... but not at the risk of losing an asset that could land them an elite guy.

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

What are the draw backs to Al Jefferson besides the knee injury. He came back from it quickly and played well, not exactly up to where he was before but still his skill level at that position is the type of guy we need.

There are a lot of positives and negatives to Al Jefferson. I like the guy and I love bigs who can play in the post. Do not get me wrong.

Positives: He's a really good rebounder, he has the best post-game in the league, he's got magnificent touch around the basket. He's coming off an ACL tear which is now a year and a half old. That's both a good and bad thing. Good because it's generally a 1.5-2 year injury, so he should be very close to full strength this season if not completely 100%. He seems very receptive to learning the game and while he did get a DUI, he has never really been a guy who has been known to cause trouble.


Negatives: In the NBA, the position you play is defined by who you can guard. Jefferson struggles to guard quicker power forwards and can't bang with elite Centers in the post. I would normally say that Varejao is almost the perfect compliment to Jefferson defensively because he's so versatile, but it creates some offensive spacing issues. That's a big concern with Jefferson. The other is that LeBron didn't seem to respond well to playing with a big who took up so much room on the block. I know Shaq was much bigger and didn't score as well as Jefferson, but he was also a better passer(Jefferson struggles to pass out of double teams). But the whole idea is that it keeps another defender in the paint even when LBJ does have the ball. Jefferson isn't a great pick and roll option, he can't pick and pop effectively. I don't see him as a great match. I guess one could argue with proper coaching and implementation that a legitimate post option would work wonders, and I'd agree that is theoretically COULD....but a guy like Chris Bosh(if that's who the Cavs are swinging for) is the better fit on the pick and roll, the pick and pop, defensively, and in the offense in general(and more talented as well).

Jefferson isn't a bad option, I'm just not sure if it's something you move forward on right now because it would probably take all of your assets, including Hickson, to make it happen.

 

[ColumbusCavsfan]

Perhaps, but tonight is probably the 2nd biggest day of moves in the NBA other than July 1st and the Cavaliers desperately need to get young talent.

I'm not saying they should go all out and get Al Jefferson or Monta Ellis. I am saying that the Cavaliers need to make a substantial move to improve their future of the franchise. I'd be saying this even if we had LeBron under contract, because the future of this team is garbage. It is JJ and....

The Cavaliers NEED to get a higher pick and an elite young talent. We have only had one since the franchise inception, which is probably why we have 0 titles. I'm not saying that we need to sell the entire franchise down for a top 5 pick, but we need to make some sort of move for a top 20 pick.

I agree with every word of this. What happens if we sit on our hands and wait for a Bosh or Paul trade that never happens? I dont think they need a complete face lift but a little tinkering here and there to get into the first round would certainly help. I''ll be more than a little worried if we go into the FA period with our roster as is.

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

Perhaps, but tonight is probably the 2nd biggest day of moves in the NBA other than July 1st and the Cavaliers desperately need to get young talent.

I'm not saying they should go all out and get Al Jefferson or Monta Ellis. I am saying that the Cavaliers need to make a substantial move to improve their future of the franchise. I'd be saying this even if we had LeBron under contract, because the future of this team is garbage. It is JJ and....

The Cavaliers NEED to get a higher pick and an elite young talent. We have only had one since the franchise inception, which is probably why we have 0 titles. I'm not saying that we need to sell the entire franchise down for a top 5 pick, but we need to make some sort of move for a top 20 pick.

Here's the problem though, outside of the top 5, and arguably 6 players, the talent level drops off of a cliff. The talent in this draft at #8 is still going to be available at #30, just will have to find the right guy. After those top 6, you're not looking at elite young talent, you're looking at if a guy can be a future contributor/rotation player on a contender.

What the Cavs have to and will do is compile their list of guys who they would want and compare it to the list of places they can get to in the draft relative to assets surrendered to do it. If they can get into the draft for just cash at one point in the night and they still have guys on their big board not crossed off, expect them to jump in. If not, they won't.

It's anything but make or break for the franchise though.

 

[Noonan]

The best case scenario for this summer is re-signing LeBron while adding Bosh or Stoudemire in a S&T. Neither of those things are going to happen tonight. If the Cavs do make a trade today involving Delonte or Hickson or another asset then that closes the door on our best case scenario.

In other words: Stop acting like the Cavs need to make a big move tonight.

 

[KIisKing]

Perhaps, but tonight is probably the 2nd biggest day of moves in the NBA other than July 1st and the Cavaliers desperately need to get young talent.

I'm not saying they should go all out and get Al Jefferson or Monta Ellis. I am saying that the Cavaliers need to make a substantial move to improve their future of the franchise. I'd be saying this even if we had LeBron under contract, because the future of this team is garbage. It is JJ and....

The Cavaliers NEED to get a higher pick and an elite young talent. We have only had one since the franchise inception, which is probably why we have 0 titles. I'm not saying that we need to sell the entire franchise down for a top 5 pick, but we need to make some sort of move for a top 20 pick.

The thing is so though how many of our assets do you want to use on a player that will take a few years to develop?

Yeah, It would be nice to have a young player like a Whiteside, Bledsoe, Anderson, Bradley, or Hayward but if it comes at the expensive of our best asset, Delonte West, I just dont think its worth it.

Delonte, if traded outside of the draft, will most likely bring an experienced and proven player that can step in right away and contribute. You really never know with draft picks. Not to mention overall talent fades after maybe the 10th pick. The market isnt in the Cavs favor either. A lot of teams want to buy so teams wanting to sell are jacking up the asking price to a point were it just makes sense to slid down into the second round.

Gilbert and Grant know what has to be done and I'm confident something will happen soon.

 

[Walter White]

So I was at Cavs.com and I just wanted to see what topics they are talking about at the bottom and I came across this. This is just way to good not to pass up. Funniest thing I have ever seen.

Okay to show LeBron he needs to stay show how much you want him by bringing in big players.



My idea is simple but complicated. All Salaries Match up too!



First before July 1 Do this three team trade.



Phi Gets: Mo, Andy



Nor Gets: D.West, Parker



Cle Gets: Igudala and CP3



Reasons:



Cle-obviously a huge steal!! CP3=LBJ's best friend has to stay.



Nor- Chris Paul is gonna realize there in rebuilding mode and he wants to play for a contender. And No will get about 7 million dollar cap relief



Phi- Mo would compliment Evan Turner very nicely. Andy would fit in great with there group of bigs they already have. And I honestly dont see Igudala and Turner working well together.



Then a sign in trade with Tor



Tor Gets: Leon Powe, Telfair, and Jaminson



Cle Gets: Bosh



Reason:



Cle: obvious



Tor : they get cap relief(about 3 mil) so they could find a trade to unload Turkulu cause they are in rebuild mode



Bosh: i read in an earlier thread about him on Mike and Mike saying he wouldnt mind coming to cleveland to play with LeBron. Dont know how credible it is tho.



Then we Sign Shaq to a 5-6 million dollar contract he has to realize that for the minutes he is able to play he isnt worth 20 mil any more



And finally re-sign LEBRON JAMES



Our Line-up would be stacked



PG: CP3-Gibson

SG: Igudala-Moon

SF: LBJ-J.Williams

PF: Bosh-JJ

C: Shaq-Z



Dont hold back any thoughts?

Only at CavFanatic.

 

[Matt S]

So I was at Cavs.com and I just wanted to see what topics they are talking about at the bottom and I came across this. This is just way to good not to pass up. Funniest thing I have ever seen.



Only at CavFanatic.

I was really, really hoping to come home for lunch today and finally read some news about the Cavs getting involved with something big before the draft.

And instead I get this.

 

[Matt S]

The best case scenario for this summer is re-signing LeBron while adding Bosh or Stoudemire in a S&T. Neither of those things are going to happen tonight. If the Cavs do make a trade today involving Delonte or Hickson or another asset then that closes the door on our best case scenario.

In other words: Stop acting like the Cavs need to make a big move tonight.

What if the choices end up being best case scenario or bust? What if the best case scenario is dead from the start because LeBron signs elsewhere before we can pull off a S&T? We really want to head into July 1 having not made any visible effort to improve the team?

Banking everything on our ability to both S&T for a superstar and re-sign LeBron after July 1 is one thing that I've consistently hoped the organization would not do.

 

[sam_slam911]

Bosh is the target, and he he won't be moving anywhere just yet. The Cavs need to make a move using as few assets as possible to bring in someone him and LeBron will want to play with, either a young up and coming player or a friend of those two.

Collison could be someone they'd be interested in playing with, and while Okafor is not a great fit right now, he could work with Bosh.

Maybe those two would take too many assets, but that's how the Cavs need to be thinking, and I'm sure they are.

Rudy Gay is probably on the market for whoever overpays him, and he's a great friend of the LeBron crowd

 

[Amherstcavsfan]

The thing is so though how many of our assets do you want to use on a player that will take a few years to develop?

Yeah, It would be nice to have a young player like a Whiteside, Bledsoe, Anderson, Bradley, or Hayward but if it comes at the expensive of our best asset, Delonte West, I just dont think its worth it.

Delonte, if traded outside of the draft, will most likely bring an experienced and proven player that can step in right away and contribute. You really never know with draft picks. Not to mention overall talent fades after maybe the 10th pick. The market isnt in the Cavs favor either. A lot of teams want to buy so teams wanting to sell are jacking up the asking price to a point were it just makes sense to slid down into the second round.

Gilbert and Grant know what has to be done and I'm confident something will happen soon.

Here is the problem with getting the experienced player: We have done that for the past 3 years and have gotten the same results each year. To me, getting the experienced player is the safe move, a move that the Cavaliers have made each year. The problem is that usually, those players are already at their peak and not all that more valuable than what we give up.

I'm not saying that the Cavaliers have always made the safe move, as the three team massive deal was pretty ballsy, but a lot of their moves were made because they felt "safe" with a player. The Cavaliers organization needs to start taking some big time risks. While the talent in this draft certainly has a cliff, it seems a lot of times, good players are almost always still drafted in this type of draft AFTER the "big names."

For me, I'd like to see the Cavaliers move a lot of their depth towards one of two things: Risky, high potential young guys or one proven NBA all-star. The NBA Finals and pretty much the entire playoffs the past few years has shown us you do not have to have a deep team to be a title contender or win a title. The Lakers have 5 1/2 good players on their team and have won back to back titles mainly because they had two superstars. Boston, outside of Rondo and Pierce, has not been very good since 08 yet they have gone deeper in the playoffs than we have.

It seems to me that Ferry thought that the way to win a title was to have a deep team, a team of 1 superstar and 14 role players. That approach, apparently, does not work in the NBA and we have seen the results. It's time, IMO, to move that for a risky young player and a superstar. Andy, Powe, JJ, Jamison, Mo, Delonte, Parker, Moon, Jawad, Telifar, Boobie...all of those guys should be available for those trades. Tonight is step one in this process, and pretty big step as well. I would rather not see them play it safe and wait for "their guy" to fall into the second round and buy a pick. They need to find a guy they think has a very high ceiling, buy/trade for a pick and take that guy. Easier said than done, but if they have the conviction and the want to, they can get it done.

Tonight is the first step into the Grant era, possibly the post-LeBron era. I'd rather come out swinging than be in a shell and protect mode.

 

[Triumph36]

Bosh is the target, and he he won't be moving anywhere just yet. The Cavs need to make a move using as few assets as possible to bring in someone him and LeBron will want to play with, either a young up and coming player or a friend of those two.

Collison could be someone they'd be interested in playing with, and while Okafor is not a great fit right now, he could work with Bosh.

Maybe those two would take too many assets, but that's how the Cavs need to be thinking, and I'm sure they are.

Rudy Gay is probably on the market for whoever overpays him, and he's a great friend of the LeBron crowd

The problem with a Collison deal is that Mo will have to go somewhere too. Unless we plan to bring him off the bench and even run a Collison/Mo back court at times, I guess. But that seems unlikely. Assuming he's traded...how would he fit in? Toronto wouldn't want him unless they were losing Jose, and NO wouldn't want him for obvious reasons.

And with Bosh...trading for him alone would require a lot of assets. That's where Wally could, and should, come into play. We could offer him in a S&T for Hedo, while only sending one asset (JJ?) plus filler (Jamison?) for Bosh while getting to keep Green, AV, future picks, etc. Then we'd still have Moon, Telfair, etc to use in a deal for Collison/Okafor. The Cavs should be aggressively exploring the possibility of a Wally S&T because it would do a lot to maintain our flexibility for other moves.

I don't see Gay as an option with Bosh unless we can pull off that deal for #5 which is obviously unlikely now. If not, it would require JJ and then we wouldn't be able to use him for Bosh.

 

[tshizzle]

Some research on your part would probably help you realize that this community really holds W&G in high regard, and instead of piling on you like many surely would/will do, I'll give you my view of it, as I'm sure there are many others lurking around presently who are new to this board given tonight's upcoming draft who would like to know about W&G.

W&G is basically this board's resident insider (although I'm sure the mods have access to a fair amount of inside info themselves). He's not officially connected with the organization, but knows many within, and has been able to provide RCF with the mindset of the organization regarding trades, drafts, free agency, etc. Granted, not everything he says comes to fruition, but that's to be expected because not everything discussed in a basketball front office plays out completely.

I think RCF is a better place because of him, and I'll leave the rest up to you.

thanks for explanation

 

[Jon]

What I don't understand is the idea that tonight is the "make or break night" for the franchise. If we wanted to use all of our assets on Monta Ellis or on Al Jefferson, I'm sure we probably could, but would that really change anything?

The odds of pulling off a major trade go drastically down if we can't secure a top draft pick to sweeten the pot. Can we still trade for drafted player after the draft? I think maybe so, if they're not signed, but we'd have to deal with the team that drafted the player Toronto (or whoever) covets and the economics might be a bit different.

A lot depends come July 1 whether LeBron will be patient and let the Cavs try to put some deals together, but the clocks ticking fast.

Best case scenario was that we'd have a new coach signed, have a deal for a pick already in place, and have a trade done all before the draft. At that point, LeBron could choose to just extend his current contract if he liked the moves, but if he still insisted on letting everyone else give their pitch - at least it would be all relative to our strengthened position.

It's not over until LeBron makes his decision, but if we don't walk away with something tonight, it's IMO a major blow.

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

The odds of pulling off a major trade go drastically down if we can't secure a top draft pick to sweeten the pot. Can we still trade for drafted player after the draft? I think maybe so, if they're not signed, but we'd have to deal with the team that drafted the player Toronto (or whoever) covets and the economics might be a bit different.

A lot depends come July 1 whether LeBron will be patient and let the Cavs try to put some deals together, but the clocks ticking fast.

Best case scenario was that we'd have a new coach signed, have a deal for a pick already in place, and have a trade done all before the draft. At that point, LeBron could choose to just extend his current contract if he liked the moves, but if he still insisted on letting everyone else give their pitch - at least it would be all relative to our strengthened position.

It's not over until LeBron makes his decision, but if we don't walk away with something tonight, it's IMO a major blow.

Will we have the assets to get a pick tonight and then also parlay the pick later down the road for a guy like Bosh? I don't know...

I do know in the environments of sign and trades, as thing stand now we have enough to land Bosh if he collaborates with James to come here. Without the collaboration, having a top 10 pick won't change our chances at landing him.


I don't think it's even possible for a huge blow to be dealt tonight unless some ridiculous unseen move from one of our competitors happens (mainly Chicago opening up room for a second contract or something of the sort...which probably isn't happening)