Your 2018 Cleveland Indians

[Urban]

Hitting the disagree button and not responding as to why you hit it isn't against the site rules. Personal attacks are......Your payroll information didn't include the fact that small market teams struggle to keep teams together and other negatives that come with MLB's salary model..

LOL c'mon man, I'm not saying it's against the rules. I'll take him calling my post garbage as a personal attack if we're gonna go there.

Yeah, my payroll information didn't include that or any other foot notes, so what? I think everyone knows the large markets have it much better than small market teams. It makes things difficult for small markets but clearly not impossible to succeed. The MLB isn't like say the English Premier League where there is rarely any parity at the top of the standings.

 

[The Wizard of Moz]

Aren’t we the best AL team in the last five years?

Depends on the measure of success

Keep in mind we have no World Series which some view as the only metric for success

 

[Steve_424]

Updated the OP for anyone who wants to discuss, you know, the 2018 Cleveland Indians.

It looks like Rajai Davis has a good shot of making the roster. The other wild cards are Gonzalez, Urshela, Guyer (working his way back), Brantley (working his way back), Merritt (they need depth, but he hasn't helped his case much), and maybe Goody.

 

[Urban]

Since 2011 (7 years)

Top 5 in payroll: 18 of 35 teams made the playoffs
6-10 in payroll: 14 of 35 teams made the playoffs
Top 10 Total: 32 of 70 teams made the playoffs

 

[macbdog]

I'm glad Rajai is going to make it, I think he is perfect for a 4th/5th role. Guy is still one of the best basestealers in the game and a guy like that to me is invaluable off the bench- I don't think fans quite realize just how good he is on the bases. He was just as good last year as he was when he led the league @ 35 in SBs. He isn't doing it by being the fastest guy in the league, he just knows the art. Getting him back for peanuts is an excellent deal.

I'm also still going with Gonzalez over Urshela. He is built for that super utility role.

 

[Real Deal]

Bernie is a cool dude and loves discussing the Tribe

 

[Derek]

I think E-Gon wins the job, but I'd rather give the last OF spot to Allen. I really think Davis blows. I don't think he's better than Allen at anything.

I know Urshela has torn the cover off the ball this spring, but I don't put any stock in spring training stats, and I think we all know that neither one of them is going to be a difference maker offensively. It all comes down to defensive versatility IMO.

 

[Urban]

Since 2011 (7 years)

Top 5 in payroll: 18 of 35 teams made the playoffs
6-10 in payroll: 14 of 35 teams made the playoffs
Top 10 Total: 32 of 70 teams made the playoffs

Provide the info Moz was looking for, takes me off ignore to disagree.

Says my original post only looked at World Series wins despite the graph being "Payroll ranks among playoff teams over the past 5 years"

I'm done, back to the Indians and enough with statman 2.0

 

[macbdog]

Since 2011 (7 years)

Top 5 in payroll: 18 of 35 teams made the playoffs
6-10 in payroll: 14 of 35 teams made the playoffs
Top 10 Total: 32 of 70 teams made the playoffs

My 2 cents:

Caps do not ensure parity, although they certainly help. There is no parity in the NBA; if LBJ had not been born in Akron, he would have never returned here and the last 3 Finals would have been him either still in Miami or some other big market. Let's just be blunt.

In the NFL, it is non-guaranteed contracts that ensure parity. Teams not named the Browns can quickly recover from bad decisions and get back to winning. It is the worst league to attempt to build through FA; at least according to all the fans here.

I don't think baseball needs a cap. I think a luxury tax with escalating penalties makes more sense. What baseball needs for parity and better distribution of revenue is a salary floor and a change to the payment structure for young players. That to me is where MLB has dropped the ball and they know it. That all has to be collectively bargained, though.

 

[The Wizard of Moz]

Provide the info Moz was looking for, takes me off ignore to disagree.

Says my original post only looked at World Series wins despite the graph being "Payroll ranks among playoff teams over the past 5 years"

I'm done, back to the Indians and enough with statman 2.0

you provided evidence that the 17% of teams in the last 7 years (nice sample size, btw) have accounted for 51% of playoff berths

I know analysis isn't your strong suit, but how did you think this actually helped your argument?

 

[Urban]

Hey dumbass, you provided evidence that the 17% of teams in the last 7 years (nice sample size, btw) have accounted for 51% of playoff berths

I know analysis isn't your strong suit, but how did you think this actually helped your argument?

Is that shocking to anyone? Clearly the teams that spend more have an advantage. I've said this no less than 3 times already. Is it insurmountable obstacle? Absolutely not.

What would be a proper sample size for you? Sportrac's data only went back to 2011.

This is an enjoyable forum that typically has good back and forth arguments. This certainly isn't one of them and I apologize to you and the rest of the forum for letting it get to this point. I admit I shouldn't have made it personal and I hope you can admit you handled the beginning poorly as well. If you want to continue disagreeing with all my posts, more power to you. My stance from the beginning has been there are a few top heavy teams who do hold an advantage with their spending power, but it is far from an insurmountable obstacle. That hasn't changed, hope you can see that.

 

[Urban]

Also, last point. That's 51% represents how often a Top 5 team made the playoffs.

Their 18 playoff appearances represents 68 playoff spots in that 7 year span. (8 spots in 2011, 10 each from 2012-2017). So those Top 5 teams (17%) actually represents 26.4% of all playoff appearances from 2011-2017. (Max they can represent is 51.5%)

 

[col63onel]

There is no parity in the NBA

I always thought the NBA was not a good example for discussing parity and MLB.

You have to be so incredibly tall to play in the NBA it's ridiculous. 6'2 is well below average height for the NBA, but over the 90th percentile when compared to average humans. There are so few people who are both that tall and that coordinated that there is always going to be a smaller pool of athletes for the NBA to choose from, so they will naturally have less parity.

The athletic requirements to play MLB are way lower. So MLB parity should be higher than NBA parity.

 

[JDailey23]

Bernie is a cool dude and loves discussing the Tribe

I’m not even close to being an expert, but if he has little range at 2nd, then moving him to the OF is a better option why?
Range at 2nd has in speed and ability to dive for balls, or what?

 

[Real Deal]

I’m not even close to being an expert, but if he has little range at 2nd, then moving him to the OF is a better option why?
Range at 2nd has in speed and ability to dive for balls, or what?

This past season Jose got to a bunch of balls that an average or even above average 2nd baseman couldn't get too. He's simply a great 2nd basemen, one of the top's in the game. That's the range he's talking about. Kipnis is okay, but we can get away with him playing in LF. Some of the worst baseball athletes can make a living in LF. This is no knock on Kipnis either, Jose is just a better fielding 2B and can literally do it all there.

Lindor and Jose was one of the best duo's in the middle, am I wrong? Obviously you pencil in what Houston has, but there isn't much comparable.