Z in Florida

[Spencer Hawes]

Miami has 2nd rounders Pittman and Butler on their roster and both are likely to make the final 15. That team was loading up on vets. Say what you will about Z he's still long and has a nice stroke. IMO his biggest problem in Cleveland was the staffs blind eye to his shooting shots 2-3 feet outside his ideal range.

15 -17 feet should be the extent of where he's taking shots. The Cavs let him roam and pretend to be Dirk. (Bad move) Z could serve a role in matchups with Howard, Bynum, Oneal(x2) and Perkins. If they have to stand a foot closer to Z or stay with him 1-2 seconds too long the result could shift from a block, drawn charge to a blocking foul or easy bucket for James and/or Wade. Plus those 6 fouls come in handy with Howard and Shaq being really bad ft shooters.

What I'm saying is that Lebron wanted Z in Miami and imo, they were better off using that spot on another young talent. I beg to see Z on the court come playoff time against the Magic, Celtics or Lakers. I'd rather see Z taking jump shots ALL DAY, then see LeBra and Dwade driving to the rim and Bosh draining mid-range jumpers.

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

To even link Z with Mbenga or Morrison is crazy. Both of them are young guys that have yet to prove they even "belong" in the league. One's bust and the other is just tall. Z has done pretty much everything a NBA player can do in a career. Minus winning a MVP or the Finals. The fact that YOU think you can decide the value that holding that trophy and being a part of winning it (remains to be seen how big) is worth to Z is HI-larious :chuckles:...

Once again this isnt a story YOU can write in October. You have to let it play out.

There isn't any difference in being ineffective and not contributing whether you're 24 or 74. You're still an ineffective irrelevant piece to the puzzle.

The fact that you continue to shamelessly defend everything Miami and play it off as everyone else "hating" is HI-larious :chuckles:

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

Miami has 2nd rounders Pittman and Butler on their roster and both are likely to make the final 15. That team was loading up on vets. Say what you will about Z he's still long and has a nice stroke. IMO his biggest problem in Cleveland was the staffs blind eye to his shooting shots 2-3 feet outside his ideal range.

He shot 28%(eFG) from 10-15 feet and 35% (eFG) from 16-23 feet. His biggest problem had nothing to do with the staff and had everything to due with the big-man cliff that he did a nose-dive off of.

Z could serve a role in matchups with Howard, Bynum, Oneal(x2) and Perkins. If they have to stand a foot closer to Z or stay with him 1-2 seconds too long the result could shift from a block, drawn charge to a blocking foul or easy bucket for James and/or Wade. Plus those 6 fouls come in handy with Howard and Shaq being really bad ft shooters.

Why put Dwight Howard on Z when you can just cover up Rashard Lewis' defensive worthlessness by having him stand in the vicinity. (I.E. 2009)

If you remember back to a Lakers game two years ago(when Z was much better than he is now), Phil Jackson let Z stand there, wide open, the entire game, and even though he made a few shots in the first half, Jackson still refused to guard him. The Lakers beat us by double digits in a rout as Z faded into obscurity in the 2nd half and got continually worked on the defensive end of the floor.

I love Z as a player and person but it became evident that he was a liability on the floor last year.

 

[I-77 NORTH]

Fuck Z.

It's funny that he answers these questions as if Cleveland will never hear them.

``It may seem like a surprise, but this transition hasn't been hard for me at all,'' Ilgauskas said. ``The only difference is the jersey LeBron and I wear now says `Heat' on it.''

Seriously??

That's like having a divorce and remarrying, than telling your best friends - "hey man, the only thing different now is this wife takes it in ass and doesnt mind!"

Son of a bitch. I truely, truely hope that the Heat never win a championship.

 

[Maximus]

The Cavs did indeed offer him a contract if he wanted to return. Now, that doesn't mean he's abandoning anyone, but let's keep the facts in line.

Technically, yes, they did offer him a contract. But, it was only a panic offer when they found out he was leaning towards Miami...over two weeks into free agency. It was an attempt at minor damage control after the trainwreck a week prior. Nothing more, nothing less. He probably could have gone into the front office, but he wants to play, he wants to win a ring, he wants to fulfill a dream.

Bottom line is the Cavs and he were going in different directions. Z knew this and so did DG and CG. Z wanted an amicable separation and to move on to a contender. He called everyone from top to bottom to inform them of his plans and to personally thank them. Some at the top chose not to take his call. Maybe they were busy...or maybe they have short memories. Either way, Z is fine with them.

Z could have gone to a handful of teams, but only a couple were true contenders and handing him a contract to sign. Unfortunately, Miami was the best fit for him and his family. Everyone at the Q wishes it wasn't, but it was. The Cavs didn't really want him anymore and the Lakers weren't offering a contract. Knowing the facts, it's hard to hold anything against him.

I truly think Z gave everything he could to this city, on the court and off. His body was broken but he continued to play when 99% would have quit. Off the court I don't think there has ever been a Cleveland athlete that has done more charity work, mostly out of the spotlight. He was as selfless as you can get. I think he deserves to make a decision for himself at the end of his career, even though we may all selfishly want something different.

 

[Chris]

Technically, yes, they did offer him a contract. But, it was only a panic offer when they found out he was leaning towards Miami...over two weeks into free agency. It was an attempt at minor damage control after the trainwreck a week prior. Nothing more, nothing less. He probably could have gone into the front office, but he wants to play, he wants to win a ring, he wants to fulfill a dream.

Bottom line is the Cavs and he were going in different directions. Z knew this and so did DG and CG. Z wanted an amicable separation and to move on to a contender. He called everyone from top to bottom to inform them of his plans and to personally thank them. Some at the top chose not to take his call. Maybe they were busy...or maybe they have short memories. Either way, Z is fine with them.

Z could have gone to a handful of teams, but only a couple were true contenders and handing him a contract to sign. Unfortunately, Miami was the best fit for him and his family. Everyone at the Q wishes it wasn't, but it was. The Cavs didn't really want him anymore and the Lakers weren't offering a contract. Knowing the facts, it's hard to hold anything against him.

I truly think Z gave everything he could to this city, on the court and off. His body was broken but he continued to play when 99% would have quit. Off the court I don't think there has ever been a Cleveland athlete that has done more charity work, mostly out of the spotlight. He was as selfless as you can get. I think he deserves to make a decision for himself at the end of his career, even though we may all selfishly want something different.

God damnit.

Damn this whole thing. The whole friggin' thing.

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

Technically, yes, they did offer him a contract. But, it was only a panic offer when they found out he was leaning towards Miami...over two weeks into free agency. It was an attempt at minor damage control after the trainwreck a week prior. Nothing more, nothing less. He probably could have gone into the front office, but he wants to play, he wants to win a ring, he wants to fulfill a dream.

Bottom line is the Cavs and he were going in different directions. Z knew this and so did DG and CG. Z wanted an amicable separation and to move on to a contender. He called everyone from top to bottom to inform them of his plans and to personally thank them. Some at the top chose not to take his call. Maybe they were busy...or maybe they have short memories. Either way, Z is fine with them.

Z could have gone to a handful of teams, but only a couple were true contenders and handing him a contract to sign. Unfortunately, Miami was the best fit for him and his family. Everyone at the Q wishes it wasn't, but it was. The Cavs didn't really want him anymore and the Lakers weren't offering a contract. Knowing the facts, it's hard to hold anything against him.

I truly think Z gave everything he could to this city, on the court and off. His body was broken but he continued to play when 99% would have quit. Off the court I don't think there has ever been a Cleveland athlete that has done more charity work, mostly out of the spotlight. He was as selfless as you can get. I think he deserves to make a decision for himself at the end of his career, even though we may all selfishly want something different.

I totally agree with everything you posted, I have no animosity towards him choosing Miami and said so at the time it happened. Most of what I'm saying is just in observation of the situation. I'm not angry at him at all like some.

 

[jay_em]

There isn't any difference in being ineffective and not contributing whether you're 24 or 74. You're still an ineffective irrelevant piece to the puzzle.

The fact that you continue to shamelessly defend everything Miami and play it off as everyone else "hating" is HI-larious :chuckles:

When you find something NOT worth defending then I'll join hating parade...not that i can remember saying anyone was hating, but cool... so you find the cause and get back at me. Because nothing you say makes your point right here. My point is: You dont get to decide what has meaning to Z and what doesnt. He went to Miami for a ring so i think that alone says it'll have some meaning to him.

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

When you find something NOT worth defending then I'll join hating parade...not that i can remember saying anyone was hating, but cool... so you find the cause and get back at me. Because nothing you say makes your point right here. My point is: You dont get to decide what has meaning to Z and what doesnt. He went to Miami for a ring so i think that alone says it'll have some meaning to him.

I'm not speaking in context of Z, I'm speaking in the larger context of the game of basketball. I'm sure Morrison was thrilled to win a championship and I'm sure Z will be as well, but I'm not talking about that.

 

[jay_em]

He shot 28%(eFG) from 10-15 feet and 35% (eFG) from 16-23 feet. His biggest problem had nothing to do with the staff and had everything to due with the big-man cliff that he did a nose-dive off of.

those % dont show the ranges i stated and they dont show the number of shots taken which is key. The skillset that Z has "shooting" stand still set shots doesnt really fall off with age...unless you step outside your range.

Why put Dwight Howard on Z when you can just cover up Rashard Lewis' defensive worthlessness by having him stand in the vicinity. (I.E. 2009)

If you remember back to a Lakers game two years ago(when Z was much better than he is now), Phil Jackson let Z stand there, wide open, the entire game, and even though he made a few shots in the first half, Jackson still refused to guard him. The Lakers beat us by double digits in a rout as Z faded into obscurity in the 2n d half and got continually worked on the defensive end of the floor.

I love Z as a player and person but it became evident that he was a liability on the floor last year.

That was easy b/c the Cavs power forwards were all offensive limited that is not the case with Bosh and Haslem. They have to be accounted for or they'll stroke that mid range baseline and elbow jumper all day along.

What Phil did in the Lakers game some years ago is great. IIRC Z played pretty well in the Lakers game last year. So rumors of his worthlessness may be exaggerated.

You also have to realize that the Heat arent counting on Z being a starter or playing heavy minutes. Im sure Coach Spo and his staff can find away to use him for 6-12 minutes a game and put him in a position to be at his most effective state.

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

those % dont show the ranges i stated and they dont show the number of shots taken which is key. The skillset that Z has "shooting" stand still set shots doesnt really fall off with age...unless you step outside your range.

The numbers do show that no matter where he was on the floor, whether it be 10, 11, 12, 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 feet, he was ineffective as far as being a mid-range jump-shooter went. Also, skill-sets fall off ALL the time. ESPECIALLY shooting. Players all fall off a cliff at some point, bigs tend to be even more pronounced in doing it historically.

That was easy b/c the Cavs power forwards were all offensive limited that is not the case with Bosh and Haslem. They have to be accounted for or they'll stroke that mid range baseline and elbow jumper all day along.

Haslem isn't a threat to consistently win games offensively or to make a big difference. Bosh is, but I'm just saying that Dwight Howard is going to be a force at the rim and defensively regardless of the personnel. Having Z in the game doesn't change anything about what DWight Howard will be doing. It changes nothing, actually.

You also have to realize that the Heat arent counting on Z being a starter or playing heavy minutes. Im sure Coach Spo and his staff can find away to use him for 6-12 minutes a game and put him in a position to be at his most effective state.

His most effective state is ineffective at this point in his career. The absolute best they can hope for from Z is a P.J. Brown-like emergence randomly out of the clouds in one playoff game proceeded and followed by just being bad.

 

[jay_em]

I'm not speaking in context of Z, I'm speaking in the larger context of the game of basketball. I'm sure Morrison was thrilled to win a championship and I'm sure Z will be as well, but I'm not talking about that.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. If Z sits on the bench in street clothes or comes in ala Darko "Human Victory Cigar" Milicic during the Pistons run thats one thing. If he contributes in a small role like Vujacic thats another.

His most effective state is ineffective at this point in his career. The absolute best they can hope for from Z is a P.J. Brown-like emergence randomly out of the clouds in one playoff game proceeded and followed by just being bad.

And there's the point. The Cavs may have won that series and a chip that year if not for P. J Browns "minimal" contributions.

 

[Spencer Hawes]

And there's the point. The Cavs may have won that series and a chip that year if not for P. J Browns "minimal" contributions.

So cutting through all your BS, this is what your argument boils down to? Pathetic.

 

[jay_em]

So cutting through all your BS, this is what your argument boils down to? Pathetic.

is that a question or an accusation? Either way, you're not correct.

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

And there's the point. The Cavs may have won that series and a chip that year if not for P. J Browns "minimal" contributions.

It's not like Z has a history of delivering in the post-season though even when he was an all-star....


(BTW, a bit irrelevant, but P.J. Brown never would have gotten a chance to make those contributions if a 23 year old freak athlete didn't lose a jump ball to a 30 year old with diminished hops.)