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Zydrunas Rebounds His Way To Cav Record

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Daugherty averaged 19 and 10 in the playoffs and still got criticized.
 
Z has been miserable in some games... However, in other games he's not getting the ball enough to bitch about his numbers..

I can't complain with the way Z has played in the last 2 or 3 weeks.. Since Larry has gone down, Z has had 6 games in which he's taken less than 10 shots.. The numbers are not going to be there in that case..And there's no reason why he should be taking less than 10 shots a game..

To my fellow Z bashers-

You guys have to learn when to pick your battles when it comes to Z..This is not the time.. His jump shot has been solid, and he's giving effort out there..
 
Thankyou Pip for again showing that its possible to dislike a player and still be objective if you. Some of the previous posters could do worse then heed his advise.

I cant wait until you guys are made to look silly when the stats come out about how few of his total offensive rebounds have come from his own misses.
 
Karma, I'm heading out for the Clowns/Stoolers game. When I wake up tomorrow and shake off my hangover I'll see if I can track it down. If memory serves there was a crew here claiming that 50%, 60%, 90% of Z's offensive boards have come off his own misses or while playing volleyball. Z lead the league in offensive rebounds in 05 and if I remember correctly 28% of them were off his own misses...the league average then was 27%. I think i even provided game by game stats for the first half of last season which showed it was around the same.

The one thing that gets me is if he is tipping a ball 4 times in one possession, and we don't score....what's the damage??? It's not like he's turning it over 4 times. Our team jacking up 3's is far more offensive to me than Z keeping a possession alive by tipping the ball. His tips have been less effective this year because he has been struggling a bit, but he is still making 46% of the "tips". Not sure how that is really hurting us.
Anyhow, let me see if I can come up with some of the numbers I posted last year.
 
Thanks Max. It can't hurt this thread to actually have some facts thrown in instead of random innacurate assumptions by those with agendas.
 
Great job Z! Love him or hate him, you have to respect the amazing comeback from the foot injuries. Big men have always been easy targets for criticism. Maybe because it looks like they should do more with all that size and move slower. But remember, they are playing very strong quick and talented opponents. Wilt, Kareem and other big men of the day were criticised regularly. Brad was always criticised for being slow, soft and methodical. Moses Malone did the same tip, tip ,tip, basket, style of offensive rebounding. The bottom line is , it is better to have Z than not have him. 7'3 real centers with his skills and good attitude are imposible to find.
 
Here is where Ilgauskas sits in the all time lists for the Cavalier's.

8th in games played. (should pass Ehlo and Daugherty this season if he remains healthy)

6th in total points.

9th in minutes played.

6th in field goals attempted.

7th in field goals made.

3rd in free throws attempted and made.

1st in offensive rebounds (apparently not good enough :rolleyes: )

5th in defensive rebounds (4th by seasons end)

3rd in total rebounds.

33rd in assists.

24th in steals.

3rd in blocked shots.

1st in fouls. :chuckles:

5th in disqualifications (Kemp 3rd :chuckles: )

3rd in turnovers.
 
NarlCavs said:
Z needs to keep getting those offensive rebounds. So far this season that usually about the only way he gets any touches in the offense.

I also don't understand why Z's ability to rebound offensively and keep the ball and possession alive is thought by some to be a negative.

Brad Daugherty easily could have played 7 more seasons if the back injury didn't force him to retire so early. It's amazing when you consider how many years he lost and what that injury may have cost the Cavs.
Daugherty also was regularly criticized by many fans. I think big men are just easy targets.
Click to expand...

Z should get less touches and Gooden should get the ball more offensively
 
im proud of Big Z's accomplishment....I still feel that Brad D was the best bigman in Cavs history...He was the first sight of basketball I ever really knew and I will always love him no matter how soft people call him...

Zydrunas is our number 2 bigman for sure....the way he has ofught through all the foot surgeries...people seem to forget how bleak it was when he had all 1000 screws impalnted in his feet

he is a warrior...he is just getting older
 
The problem with that is the following:

When Drew gets the ball, falls on his face and fails at executing, he's virtually worthless for the rest of the night... He doesn't try to score, he doesn't try to play defense, and he's doesn't try to board... He goes into a shell, and is unseen until the next jump ball of the following game... If he misses a few shots in a row, he's done... If his shot gets BLOCKED, he's done...

Drew is one of the biggest enigmas on an NBA team..
 
LePIP said:
The problem with that is the following:

When Drew gets the ball, falls on his face and fails at executing, he's virtually worthless for the rest of the night... He doesn't try to score, he doesn't try to play defense, and he's doesn't try to board... He goes into a shell, and is unseen until the next jump ball of the following game... If he misses a few shots in a row, he's done... If his shot gets BLOCKED, he's done...

Drew is one of the biggest enigmas on an NBA team..
Click to expand...

True, Gooden started the season's first 5gms I believe averaging 17pts and 10rbs a game. But has not been consistant. THE WHOLE TEAM IS INCONSISTANT:mad:


Consistant
LeBron
Snow(defensively) and offensively recentlly
DJ :chuckles:
Dan Gibson :thumbup:
Andy(defensively) :thumbup:
David Wesley consistantly sucks:mad: :chuckles:

Inconsistant
Z
Marshall
Gooden
Sasha
 
Z leads the Cavs in offensive snores per game too.

:D

Also the team leader in Ambien usage.
 
Cleveland56 said:
Daugherty averaged 19 and 10 in the playoffs and still got criticized.
Click to expand...

Yeah, well, we expected him to step up and carry the team when it needed it, but for the most part he was a complimentary piece.

Z is perhaps a more extreme case where we would in the past get him going in the first quarter, he'd score 2/3 of his points, and not do much the rest of the way.

And btw, that's what's special about Larry. He often starts out slow, but after he gets enough touches, he usually finishes strong.

Anyway, congrats to the Big Guy. I'll still be pulling for him as hopefully he plays out this contract in Cleveland.
 
I couldn't find my old post but here's some numbers from 05-06 to digest...

This chart below was part of an article explaining that not all missed shots count the same. The simplest evidence for this is how often a team or player collects an offensive rebound after a missed shot.
All players miss shots, even the great ones. But some players take a very aggressive approach to going after their own misses, and some players are more concerned with getting back on defense, or are strictly outside shooters who have little chance to corral the errant shots they throw up.

This chart below shows 4 numbers - offensive rebs from own miss, number of misses, % of rebs off own miss, % of offensive rebs off own miss

94 374 25.1% 35.6% Pachulia ATL
83 439 18.9% 33.8% Ilgauskas CLE
69 413 16.7% 23.9% Howard ORL
59 393 15.0% 47.9% Howard DAL
83 693 12.0% 43.0% Randolph POR
78 649 12.0% 31.3% Marion PHO

Raja Bell was the lowest in the league getting only 2 offensive rebounds out of 505 of his misses for 0.4%.

Z's Total Offensive Rebounds - 245
Offensive rebounds from own missed shot- 83
Missed shots - 439
% of rebounds off own missed shot - 18.9%
% of offensive rebounds off own missed shot - 33.8%
% of offensive rebounds from other's missed shots - 66.2%
Team rebounding % off of Z's missed shots - 33.7%
% of tipped shots made - 54.5%




Karma also mentioned blocked shots. There are meaningful and non-meaningful blocked shots....Z's are mostly meaningful. This list below shows 3 numbers - # of blocks in 05-06, # of offensive rebounds after block, and most importantly defensive rebounding % after each block. Z was 10th in the league last year in this category. The Cavs got the ball 68.4% of the time after Z's blocks. Z also had 2-3 times as many blocks as anyone else on this "meaningful block" list.

58 14 75.9% Harrison IND
50 13 74.0% Brown NOK
74 20 73.0% Bosh TOR
56 16 71.4% Sweetney CHI
34 10 70.6% Najera DEN
56 17 69.6% Curry NYK
62 19 69.4% Granger IND
39 12 69.2% Childress ATL
39 12 69.2% Miles POR
45 14 68.9% Outlaw POR
136 43 68.4% Ilgauskas CLE

Conversely, Dwight Howard had 114 blocks, 21.9% went out of bounds. His team got the ball after only 43% of his blocks.
 
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