Z in Florida

futuristxen said:

The Cavs weren't going to resign him anyways. How is he abandoning anyone?

And the sacrifice he made is that he could have retired ten years ago and got all that you already listed. He could have said "that's it I'm done" after those horrible foot injuries. But he loves the game so much that he goes through agony pretty much every day just to play it.

Look at Z's daily routine to get ready just to sit on the bench for these games and tell me he's not sacrificing.

He gave more than enough to the Cavs franchise. And what did he get in return really? Fans that turned their back on him the minute he was in another jersey. An organization that couldn't even remember he had a minutes played record going, and had invited all of his family in to watch him not even make it into the game. To take a bench role despite playing the starting center role for a 66 win team, in the attempt to make the team better...

I know it's kosher to hate on Lebron. And that's fine. But hating on Z is low rent. He's been nothing but class since he left. And had nothing but good things to say. How Z is handling himself this offseason is how Lebron should have handled himself.

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Like I mentioned in the previous post, Cavs had a offer for him (reported by Brian Windhorst).

The Cavs had a contract offer on the table and told Ilgauskas he was always welcome with the organization, but with the team in rebuilding mode, Ilgauskas chose to accept a two-year, $2.8 million offer in Miami. The second year will likely be a player option.

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link

How can you blame the whole organization for him not playing that game? It was a coach's decision, what is the organization supposed to do?

I respected Big-Z when he was on the Cavs, I supported him every minute, but what was this "more than enough" that he gave to the Cavs organization. I really respected him for being loyal through out the years and fans have given him enough support, he was supported more than anyone else. Cavs were patient when him when he was injured.

But I don't understand why Big-Z decides to join a douche bag in Miami after he saw what happened in the playoffs and he saw what the douche bad did to the city of Cleveland on national television. Ya, he wants the ring, but there are other teams that he could have joined. I still respect Z, but not enough to support him in a Heat uniform.

InBoobieWeTrust said:

By the way, funny how LeBron was too busy attending a Jay-Z concert during the season to join Parker and Varejao and the guys when they had dinner with Z after the buy-out when he was being courted by a bunch of teams, but found the time to have lunch this summer as soon as he left Cleveland.

Prick.

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Ha I don't think he courted anyone in his entire time with the Cavs. In one summer he pushed for Miller, Z, Fisher, and probably Bosh. If he had done that sooner he probably could have had Ray Allen in the Finals instead of the shadow of Larry Hughes. Spurs wouldn't have been able to zone the Cavs with Gibson and Allen out there. Cavs win a title.

Just a lot of missed opportunities looking back.

futuristxen said:

Ha I don't think he courted anyone in his entire time with the Cavs. In one summer he pushed for Miller, Z, Fisher, and probably Bosh. If he had done that sooner he probably could have had Ray Allen in the Finals instead of the shadow of Larry Hughes. Spurs wouldn't have been able to zone the Cavs with Gibson and Allen out there. Cavs win a title.

Just a lot of missed opportunities looking back.

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And yet, you continue to support him.

stycool24 said:

Like I mentioned in the previous post, Cavs had a offer for him (reported by Brian Windhorst).

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Sorry I hadn't seen that. I wonder if the offer was before or after it was rumored he was going to the Heat?

How can you blame the whole organization for him not playing that game? It was a coach's decision, what is the organization supposed to do?

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The coach is an extension of the organization. At least that's where I was coming from in saying that. Of course said coach should have been fired way before that happened. But that's another topic.

I respected Big-Z when he was on the Cavs, I supported him every minute, but what was this "more than enough" that he gave to the Cavs organization. I really respected him for being loyal through out the years and fans have given him enough support, he was supported more than anyone else. Cavs were patient when him when he was injured.

But I don't understand why Big-Z decides to join a douche bag in Miami after he saw what happened in the playoffs and he saw what the douche bad did to the city of Cleveland on national television. Ya, he wants the ring, but there are other teams that he could have joined.

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We don't really know what was going on inside of the locker room during the playoffs, so it's hard to know what Z would or would not be reacting to. It's definitely a question Windhorst should ask Z now that he's doing that dumbass Heat Index thing. Ask him "why after Lebron quit on you in the playoffs were you willing to join his team and not Kobe's?"

Just no way of knowing right now. Anything else is speculation.

stycool24 said:

And yet, you continue to support him.

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Yeah. He's still fun to watch. And for me the quitting thing was a one time incident. I know for others they say he quit a bunch of other times, but for me, it's a one time incident. For me it's been seven years of entertaining basketball, and I want to see where the story ends. He's still the best player in the game, even if he is a douchebag quitter. And now he's playing on a team that really does look once in a lifetime.

It's like I like Johnny Cash too, but he was no saint. If the music is good, I'm there. I leave moral judgements to the gods.

futuristxen said:

Yeah. He's still fun to watch. And for me the quitting thing was a one time incident. I know for others they say he quit a bunch of other times, but for me, it's a one time incident. For me it's been seven years of entertaining basketball, and I want to see where the story ends. He's still the best player in the game, even if he is a douchebag quitter. And now he's playing on a team that really does look once in a lifetime.

It's like I like Johnny Cash too, but he was no saint. If the music is good, I'm there. I leave moral judgements to the gods.

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Its just not quitting,

Its how he never recruited a single player to the Cavs, but once he leaves, he is begging people to join him on the Heat.

How he disrespected the Cavs and their fans on national television.

How he had been planning to leave the Cavs all along and join Bosh and Wade.

Ok Z that is it, I loved you as a Cav, but you can go fuck off somewhere now.

I'm glad Z went to Miami and Lebra was stupid enough to recruit him there. If the Miami front office was smart and had the gonads, they would've said no and saved the roster spot for a young player they can develop. I hope a meteor hits the arena when they're playing a home game.

blue_kahuna said:

I'm glad Z went to Miami and Lebra was stupid enough to recruit him there. If the Miami front office was smart and had the gonads, they would've said no and saved the roster spot for a young player they can develop. I hope a meteor hits the arena when they're playing a home game.

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lol what? hmm....get Z or some random second round scrub/undrafted FA? Z is the easy choice especially considering their depth (or lack of it) at center and how most second round picks and undrafted FA end up being busts anyway.

They don't really need to develop anybody because none of their picks will be worthwhile. Add onto that the fact that decent vets will be flocking there every year...and they simply don't need to worry about "developing" any young players that aren't already on the roster.

And I don't really agree with the Ammo comparison either. Ammo played like 5mpg of garbage time in the regular season. That's useless. Z will likely be playing 10-15 of regular minutes. Sure, when the playoffs come he might only see the floor in the first round....but still, that's not "empty" and it's not like Ammo either.

futuristxen said:

Yeah. He's still fun to watch. And for me the quitting thing was a one time incident. I know for others they say he quit a bunch of other times, but for me, it's a one time incident. For me it's been seven years of entertaining basketball, and I want to see where the story ends. He's still the best player in the game, even if he is a douchebag quitter. And now he's playing on a team that really does look once in a lifetime.

It's like I like Johnny Cash too, but he was no saint. If the music is good, I'm there. I leave moral judgements to the gods.

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Actually a great argument here. I love Van Morrison's music and read his autobiography where he showed himself to be the A-hole that people say he is. It was confusing for me at the time how someone who was such a dick could write such amazing music, and it still is confusing to me. It's so much easier when you have people you support who are actually good people, but life is complex and it doesn't always happen - even with friends.

Might be the most interesting take on this whole Lebron thing I've read since July 8th. I've been so stuck in my anger and betrayal that I hadn't thought of this but it's true. Still, no way I am supporting him as a fan.

Unless Z magically regains the ability to make meaningful contributions on the basketball floor, there is nothing else in Miami that makes his ring any more meaningful than DJ Mbenga's rings or Adam Morrison's rings. It would be a different story in Cleveland, even if he didn't contribute at least there would be some underlying meaning, but all of that is gone now.

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To even link Z with Mbenga or Morrison is crazy. Both of them are young guys that have yet to prove they even "belong" in the league. One's bust and the other is just tall. Z has done pretty much everything a NBA player can do in a career. Minus winning a MVP or the Finals. The fact that YOU think you can decide the value that holding that trophy and being a part of winning it (remains to be seen how big) is worth to Z is HI-larious :chuckles:...

Once again this isnt a story YOU can write in October. You have to let it play out.

It was inside a New York City bar on July 8 when Ilgauskas was at the edge of his seat. Like the rest of the nation, he hung on James' every word during the ESPN telecast when James announced he was signing with the Heat.

Ilgauskas had no clue what his future held. But for one hour, that all didn't matter. The Decision was way too captivating.
``I was kind of watching as a fan,'' Ilgauskas said. ``Every day you would hear a thousand different stories and everything else. So I was just watching TV like everybody else. Not even worried so much about myself.''

WTF? This rubs me a little the wrong way, whether it's the just writer talking or implying that about Z.

Triumph36 said:

lol what? hmm....get Z or some random second round scrub/undrafted FA? Z is the easy choice especially considering their depth (or lack of it) at center and how most second round picks and undrafted FA end up being busts anyway.

They don't really need to develop anybody because none of their picks will be worthwhile. Add onto that the fact that decent vets will be flocking there every year...and they simply don't need to worry about "developing" any young players that aren't already on the roster.

And I don't really agree with the Ammo comparison either. Ammo played like 5mpg of garbage time in the regular season. That's useless. Z will likely be playing 10-15 of regular minutes. Sure, when the playoffs come he might only see the floor in the first round....but still, that's not "empty" and it's not like Ammo either.

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2nd rounders and undrafted players can develop into serviceable role players and tradeable commodities. Some even develop into stars such as Tony Parker and Carlos Boozer. I'm not saying Miami will get a Tony Parker or Carlos Boozer but they caved into the demands of Lebron (just like our front office did) and from a Cavs fans perspective, where we have seen Z evolved into a shell of his former self, I believe Miami should've gone young. Maybe I'm wrong and the reason they brought in Z was to matchup with Dwight Howard (and we know how that went lol) but I stand my ground and say it was a Lebron decision. They have two young atheletic centers in Anthony and Pitman. They should get those two geared up for the playoffs and use the regular season as the breaking in process.

2nd rounders and undrafted players can develop into serviceable role players and tradeable commodities. Some even develop into stars such as Tony Parker and Carlos Boozer. I'm not saying Miami will get a Tony Parker or Carlos Boozer but they caved into the demands of Lebron (just like our front office did) and from a Cavs fans perspective, where we have seen Z evolved into a shell of his former self, I believe Miami should've gone young. Maybe I'm wrong and the reason they brought in Z was to matchup with Dwight Howard (and we know how that went lol) but I stand my ground and say it was a Lebron decision. They have two young atheletic centers in Anthony and Pitman. They should get those two geared up for the playoffs and use the regular season as the breaking in process.

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Miami has 2nd rounders Pittman and Butler on their roster and both are likely to make the final 15. That team was loading up on vets. Say what you will about Z he's still long and has a nice stroke. IMO his biggest problem in Cleveland was the staffs blind eye to his shooting shots 2-3 feet outside his ideal range.

15 -17 feet should be the extent of where he's taking shots. The Cavs let him roam and pretend to be Dirk. (Bad move) Z could serve a role in matchups with Howard, Bynum, Oneal(x2) and Perkins. If they have to stand a foot closer to Z or stay with him 1-2 seconds too long the result could shift from a block, drawn charge to a blocking foul or easy bucket for James and/or Wade. Plus those 6 fouls come in handy with Howard and Shaq being really bad ft shooters.