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Building the right way?

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Re: Kyrie Irving

"Wall plays on one of the most dysfunctional teams in the NBA, and it has hurt his growth as a player.

*snip*

Very rarely does a player on a team as dysfunctional as the Wizards become an All-Star."

The tankers need to come to grips that we won't strip our team down to the point they can't win.

There's a difference between youth/inexperience and immaturity/headcases. A young team does not entail a "dysfunctional" team.

The non-Tankers need to come to grips that we don't need several 30-year-old veterans on this team who play large minutes to the point that we cannot get a difference maker in the draft, thus putting us on the treadmill of mediocrity. We're not asking the team to strip it down to the point that we can't win. We're asking that the team be stripped of its parts that are not going to be valuable in the future for parts that will be valuable in the future such as younger players acquired through trades and the draft who want to be here for the long haul. This will also allow us to more naturally fall into place in a draft position that's more indicative of our future core's talent level. That's all we ask.

Yes, I'd still prefer that the Cavs lose as many games as possible in order to get as high of a draft pick as possible at least this year and perhaps even next year, but, beyond getting rid of Jamison, Sessions, and Varejao, I'm not going to suggest that this team to get rid of anyone in our young core in order to get a better draft pick. That's like taking a step back in order to PERHAPS take a step forward.

Moving Varejao, Jamison, and Sessions is about maximizing the value of these players in 5-10 years from now by getting back young talent and draft picks in return, both of which will be likely more helpful in 5-10 years than those three players. In light of the prognosis of the team 5-10 years from now, moving Varejao, Sessions, and Jamison is like taking no steps back or perhaps a baby step back at maximum (because none of those players will be on this team 5-10 years from now except maybe the dead corpse of Varejao) and several steps forward through years of better draft positions (because of the vets' lack of helping in empty wins that ruin draft position) that lead to better players and additional young players either acquired through trades or from additional draft picks received in trades from moving those three players. Keeping Varejao, Jamison, and Sessions hurts our draft chances, but does nothing in the way of improving the talent on this roster or our chances of winning in 5-10 years from now.

You may see the tankers as wanting to strip the team to the point that the Cavs cannot win (which isn't true), but the reality is that, by keeping players like Varejao, Sessions, and Jamison on this team, we're not making the moves that we need to make to the point that we can't win it all. Those guys need to be gone yesterday.
 
Re: Kyrie Irving

I'm not going to rob this thread, but I love how the tankers talk like it's so easy to trade guys like AJ. The point is, as long as AJ is still here, he will get minutes because our HC puts guys out there that he feels gives his team the best chance to win. I hate AJ, but there are only maybe a couple of teams out there that would take him right now. The tank crowd just talks like this is all so simple. Just because we want to get rid of AJ for a draft pick doesn't make it work. There's not a lot of guys out there that these select few teams have that will match up contract wise AND they'd be willing to part with that don't tie our hands economically, as well. There's so many pieces that have to fall in place for a trade like this to happen. The tankers crack me up with this snap your fingers and get it done Grant attitude.

*Thank you to whichever mod moved these posts over here*
 
Re: Kyrie Irving

5-10 years from now? really

50% of top 15 picks play more than 400 games. your gonna base building your future super team on those odds. good luck

Ill go with cap flexibility and improving the team on a year by year basis over that any day.

because what if you dog your team for 5 years and you come up with a team that you have to blow up and start all over again. you just wasted five years of having no chance to win anything for something you could of had in two years
 
Re: Kyrie Irving

I'm not going to rob this thread, but I love how the tankers talk like it's so easy to trade guys like AJ. The point is, as long as AJ is still here, he will get minutes because our HC puts guys out there that he feels gives his team the best chance to win. I hate AJ, but there are only maybe a couple of teams out there that would take him right now. The tank crowd just talks like this is all so simple. Just because we want to get rid of AJ for a draft pick doesn't make it work. There's not a lot of guys out there that these select few teams have that will match up contract wise AND they'd be willing to part with that don't tie our hands economically, as well. There's so many pieces that have to fall in place for a trade like this to happen. The tankers crack me up with this snap your fingers and get it done Grant attitude.

*Thank you to whichever mod moved these posts over here*

for the 20th time if there's no taker just buy him out....offer him 500k less than what's left on his deal (at the deadline we probably will have already paid a good portion of his salary) and let him sign with a contender

-TT gets more playing time
-we lose more games
-Swan can sign with a contender
-Swan makes more money (the minimum for him should be a lot higher than 500k)
 
Re: Kyrie Irving

for the 20th time if there's no taker just buy him out....offer him 500k less than what's left on his deal (at the deadline we probably will have already paid a good portion of his salary) and let him sign with a contender

-TT gets more playing time
-we lose more games
-Swan can sign with a contender
-Swan makes more money (the minimum for him should be a lot higher than 500k)

You can say it 200 times, but why the hell would Grant do that now? Makes ZERO sense. None. The first thing Grant needs to do is work the phones trying to trade him up until the last second of the deadline. If no deal is out there to be had, THEN you explore a buyout and HOPE Antawn even agrees to it. Seriously, tankers, a lot of you talk like this is some fantasy world. Grant should be fired if he bought AJ out any time before the deadline.
 
Re: Kyrie Irving

You can say it 200 times, but why the hell would Grant do that now? Makes ZERO sense. None. The first thing Grant needs to do is work the phones trying to trade him up until the last second of the deadline. If no deal is out there to be had, THEN you explore a buyout and HOPE Antawn even agrees to it. Seriously, tankers, a lot of you talk like this is some fantasy world. Grant should be fired if he bought AJ out any time before the deadline.
L-Train specifically said, "if there are no takers"

He didn't say to just buy him out now
 
Re: Kyrie Irving

L-Train specifically said, "if there are no takers"

He didn't say to just buy him out now

Yes, I see that. Still doesn't change the fact you leave the door open until the last minute. Teams cave in the closer they get to a deadline. Another deal they were hoping for may fall through and they can come back to us.
 
Anyone know the number of games left after the deadline? I mean, isn't there some sort of rule that states once a player is bought out he must wait 30 days before signing with a team? I thought I remember something like that when we did it with Z. if there is, that leaves a mighty small window to hook up with a playoff team.
 
No one is arguing against that.

Gotcha. Maybe I musunderstood. I've been under the impression that some people just want him gone asap, by any means necessary. I don't have anything against moving the guy, I'd just like to max out what we can get for him.
 
Anyone know the number of games left after the deadline? I mean, isn't there some sort of rule that states once a player is bought out he must wait 30 days before signing with a team? I thought I remember something like that when we did it with Z. if there is, that leaves a mighty small window to hook up with a playoff team.

The old rule was after you are traded and bought out you had to wait 30 days to sign with the team that traded you. Z could have signed with LAL three minutes after WAS bought him out.
 
Gotcha. Maybe I musunderstood. I've been under the impression that some people just want him gone asap, by any means necessary. I don't have anything against moving the guy, I'd just like to max out what we can get for him.

Quite frankly if we can get a used condom and a 2nd round pick we should pounce on that.
 
Anyone know the number of games left after the deadline? I mean, isn't there some sort of rule that states once a player is bought out he must wait 30 days before signing with a team? I thought I remember something like that when we did it with Z. if there is, that leaves a mighty small window to hook up with a playoff team.
That was because Z was traded and returning to his old team (which isn't allowed anymore under the new cba).

Teams can sign bought out players up until the regular season ends.
 
I think everybody agrees with the "buy Jamo out if nobody wants to trade for him" position. But what bothers some folks is that some seem to think we "made a mistake" by not trading him last summer/fall (before or after the lockout) or "now." We cannot trade him "now." Nobody wants him now. Nobody wanted him (and his contract in any reasonably fair deal) last summer or fall. But beyond that - if Jamison doesn't agree to a buyout he cannot be bought out. Period. End of story. If he wants to stay here and finish out the season - and by all reports we've had that is what he wants - there is no way we can force him to take a buyout. So saying "buy him out" or you've made a mistake is missing one little point: he has to agree to it.
 

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