Matthew Dellavedova

Man what I wrote made no sense really wish you could delete things lol

buzzdog said:

This ought to go a little better with the Aussi's than it went with Blatt and the Israeli fans.

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I loved when they would show up every couple months afterwards just to trash Lue and talk about how the Warriors were so much better and would beat “that evil horrible monster LeBron” again this year.

gaitano said:

I think he wasn't fitting into Lue's offensive strategy of "increased pace"

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100% correct and what I came in here to say.

I don't think this was a cash-saving move. Or, not entirely. I think it's partially about fit and a vision for what Lue/Griff want the team to be.

I love Delly, but he's not a big/long point guard (to match up with the Warriors) and I don't think he's really an up-tempo player (to match up with where the team seems headed on offense). Lue said in the Finals he wanted to put Mo in to try to pick up the pace.

Of course, Delly may have been hurting in the Finals (I think he was) and that restricted him, and his pace.

Still, I don't think Delly is at his best as a "pace player."

We beat the Warriors, at least to some degree, with pace and transition points. More offense. I think that is where Lue/Griff want to go and I think that outlook affected Delly's future with the team, as well as some other factors also figuring in (how much it cost to keep him, for example).

You could see this move coming. Windy said the Cavs were hoping they could retain Delly at a lower price, with the implication being that if and when he got above a certain price, they were going to let him go.

I'm happy for Delly that he got paid and I hope he has a huge role in Milwaukee. The team will miss him. But I also trust Lue/Griffin and I definitely don't think Gilbert all the sudden got cheap. He's no Mickey Arison (Heat owner who dumped LeBron favorite Mike Miller after a title) in that regard.

buzzdog said:

Having said this, now I'm going to say this post I quoted is the pot calling the kettle black.

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No, it's not.. It's simply pointing out a logical fallacy.. You can't make an argument on the basis of your own ignorance... and there's no point debating this in this thread - it's not up for debate. You can google it and learn about it in your free time.

buzzdog said:

If I am comprehending your words correctly, you are pretty much saying there is no way this transaction which boils down to replacing Delly for Dunleavy was anything other than a cold salary dump with no basketball considerations whatsoever, and that there is zero evidence to think otherwise.

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I am saying the most rational, reasonable conclusion is the Cavs are cutting salary. Saying, well they might not be, is not making an argument - it's stating the obvious.

buzzdog said:

I strongly disagree.

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My post, the one you quoted, isn't a matter of opinion. One can't make claims on the basis of ignorance. What is there to disagree with? Are you disagreeing with the notion itself, and if so, how? Is your contention that yes, you can make arguments from ignorance? If so, I'd like to hear it...

buzzdog said:

Yes there is no doubt that saving $20 million was a factor. And in a vacuum, with no-one coming back in, I could agree.

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So, the Cavs are saving money?

buzzdog said:

But you talk about Dunleavy as though he is a steaming pile of shit.

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However you qualitatively evaluate Dunleavy is irrevelant; you could've had them both. Dunleavy didn't require Delly being traded. That is, unless you think Delly is worth less than the Varejao TPE.

buzzdog said:

I beg to differ. You pretty much state that we have no idea how Dunleavy will perform,

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Yeah, we don't.

buzzdog said:

WTF are you talking about? He has a long and solid track record to be used as evidence. Much more sample size than Delly.

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Delly has played on our team, with our players, in our system, and is in his mid-twenties.

Dunleavy has never played on our team, with our players, in our system, and will be 36 by the time he plays a single game.

What the fuck are you talking about?

How is this not apparent, unless we're disagreeing here just for the sake of it?

buzzdog said:

Dunleavy is money from behind the three point line,

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Over the past 3 years, Dunleavy is shooting .394 from behind the arc.
Dellevodova, over the same period, is shooting .398 from behind the arc.

But let's move on to your next point...

buzzdog said:

with a career average equal to Delly's best season.

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Which seems rather irrelevant since the last time he was able to manage such an average was in 2012 when he was 32, not 36.

Next argument?

buzzdog said:

But the guy is 6'9", not 6'3".

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Yeah, that much is true... And Delly doesn't have a bad back, has greater lateral quickness, and can guard more positions.

buzzdog said:

He can get his shot off over most NBA players where Delly needs to have room.

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You'd think there was stats to back up this argument right?

Let's take a look

Dunleavy's stats by defender range:
TIGHT (0-2) = 47.1 eFG%; 47.1% 2PT / 0 FGA from 3 (9.1% possessions)
TIGHT (2-4) = 43.0 eFG%; 43.5% 2PT / 27.8% 3PT (32.2% possessions)

What about when he's open?
OPEN (4-6) = 44.0 eFG%; 35.3% 2PT / 31.7% 3PT (33% possessions)
WIDE (6+) = 74.0 eFG%; 50% 2PT / 52.5% 3PT (25.7% possessions)

And Delly?
TIGHT (0-2) = 32.4 eFG%; 31.3% 2PT / 33.3% from 3 (10%)
TIGHT (2-4) = 41.4 eFG%; 41.6% 2PT / 26.9% from 3 (31.9%)
OPEN (4-6) = 52.2 eFG%; 42.9% 2PT / 40.2% from 3 (30.3%)
WIDE (7+) = 63.0 eFG%; 41.7% 2PT / 44.9% from 3 (27.8%)

So.. from behind the arc, and in tight defense; Delly has a significantly better chance of scoring a 3 point attempt; and this is a situation Delly and Dunleavy find themselves in roughly 40% of the time on each attempt.

Keep in mind, Delly's 3-point average is higher than Dunleavy's over the 3-years Delly has been in the league, on average.

Furthermore, it's important to note how these players create space.

Dunleavy is awful coming off the dribble with more than once bounce; whereas Delly can catch and shoot, or create for himself or others.

Creating shot opportunities: Dunleavy (dribbles vs efficiency)
Dunleavy:
0 dribbles = 59.1% eFG / 40.2% 2PT / 46.5% 3PT (67.4% of possessions)
1 dribble = 47.1% eFG / 43.5% 2PT / 36.4% 3PT (18.2% of possessions)
2 dribbles = 25.0% eFG / 26.3% 2PT / 0 FGA from 3 (10.7% of possessions)
3-6 dribbles = 14.3% eFG / 14.3% 2PT / 0% from 3 (3.7% of possessions)
7+ dribbles = N/A (no recorded stats in isolation)

Delly:
0 dribbles = 67.8% eFG / 61.8% 2PT / 46.0% 3PT (38.6% of possessions)
1 dribble = 42.1% eFG / 38.7% 2PT / 30.8% 3PT (11% of possessions)
2 dribbles = 34.8% eFG / 39.4% 2PT / 15.4% 3PT (9.0% of possessions)
3-6 dribbles = 31.6% eFG / 33.7% 2PT / 13.3% 3PT (19.2% of possessions)
7+ dribbles (iso) = 45.6% eFG / 38.5% 2PT / 50.0% 3PT (22.1% of possessions)

So... what we see here is pretty clear.

Dunleavy is a catch and shoot specialist. If you force him to take more than 1 dribble, he will simply pass the ball; period, end of story. Can he "shoot over other defenders?" Maybe, but whenever he's in tight defense, or bodied up and forced to put the ball down; he's effectively useless.

Whereas Matthew Dellevadova is just as good in the catch and shoot, and gives up a bit on the first dribble; Delly can actually generate points in a variety of different ways. Here we see his ability to put the ball on the floor, for extended periods of time, scoring, generating assists, running an NBA offense, and without creating turnovers.

In isolation, which accounts for almost a quarter of Delly's attempts; he's scoring as efficiently as Dunleavy on the first bounce.

This is why your statement here is inaccurate; and just one of the many reasons Delly is more valuable than Mike Dunleavy.

buzzdog said:

Delly's outside shot has disappeared in the past 2 finals series and I attribute that to 2 things. One. the effort he exerts on defense killing his shot. Two, the increased intensity of finals defense simply neutralized Delly's ability to hit a shot. In this regard Dunleavy has a proven track record of not wilting in playoffs, to the contrary he comes up quite strong.

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Not sure how you failed to mention Delly being hospitalized in 2014-15 or being injured in 15-16, but alright... I would grant that Dunleavy has been a better 3 point shooter, in the playoffs, when left wide open; which is generally the case for him, and not for Delly, since Delly is also running the point.

buzzdog said:

I see people saying Dunleavy can't defend, I can't say I agree there either. He's long and scrappy as hell. And he wouldn't get owned by Shaun Livingston the way Delly did in the finals, he has the length to neutralize Livingston and similar players.

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Unless you've got some evidence to suggest Livingston would be bothered by Dunleavy, I'll just disagree with you there for a multitude of reasons that should be pretty obvious.

Also, are you going to honestly say that Dunleavy is as good a defender as Dellevedova? Because if not, then there's no point to discussing defense is there?

buzzdog said:

Delly's defense fell off big-time as we got deeper into the playoffs to the point where when push came to shove Lue benched him for lack of productivity on both ends of the court.

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If you're talking about when Delly was injured, then he was on the bench because he was in pain.

Otherwise, we benched him because Irving was playing better all around. We benched him because LeBron James was playing the point when Irving wasn't and you needed one of the two on the floor at all times.

buzzdog said:

But even if you disagree with everything I just said, let's put all these arguments aside for a minute.

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I do, but okay.

buzzdog said:

Griffin made this move. If I am choosing one talent evaluator over another I'll choose Griff over Gourikomo every time, all things considered.

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Bro, you're argument is facile; you're claiming this was based on a talent evaluation? Give me a break. No one in their right mind would think Mike fucking Dunleavy is more talented or skilled or valuable than Delly. I don't think Griffin thinks that, and obivously Gourimoko doesn't think that.

buzzdog said:

Gilbert is not cheap. Lebron was apparently all in on this move. Lebron has apparently expressed his desire to have Dunleavy on the roster.

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LeBron wanted Dunleavy last year, with Delly on the roster.... Dunleavy was a salary dump, he didn't cost Delly.

buzzdog said:

I believe that Griff, Gilbert, and Lebron had a certain value on Delly and it was well south of $9.5 million even in this market.

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No shit.

buzzdog said:

This valuation was not just based on how much money they could save, it was based on how much they truly felt Delly was worth to the team, talent-wise, over the talent they could replace him for dollar for dollar.

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So, Delly is worth less substantially less than Austin Rivers?

buzzdog said:

The only advantage to Delly over Dunleavy is age.

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Smh.... you could not be more wrong. Delly is the better defender, better passer, better creator, and yes, he's the better shooter. I don't know where you're getting these ideas from..??

buzzdog said:

But $9.5 million over 4 years has an effect on our roster flexibility, and the cheaper shorter term deal for MD actually provides more flexibility down the road.

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No... it does not. We'll be over the apron massively next off-season when James goes for the full-max. Our flexibility will be worse next season than it was this season in every conceivable way.

buzzdog said:

Griff, Gilbert and Lebron aren't worried about whether Delly can get better, they're all about right now, this year. If healthy Dunleavy gives us a better shot in the playoffs this year than what they have come to expect from Delly. Otherwise they would have matched Delly, and they wouldn't have JUMPED at the chance to bring in Dunleavy while still saving $$$.

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You've pretty much stated that Griff would make the right decision period; which is an irrational basis for your argument.

buzzdog said:

And you can shit all over the TPE but the fact is it does give us some insurance and flexibility to make a move this winter if needed.

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But I didn't "shit all over the TPE," I explained how it's used.. Does that offend you? Does it offend you to know that the TPE cannot be traded to other teams?

WTF is going on here?

buzzdog said:

I mean, what did Dunleavy do, sleep with your sister?

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What the fuck?

First off.. you're citing Griff and Gilbert like you have them on speed-dial. You're talking about Dunleavy stepping up defensively in the Finals against who? Doing what? While ignoring Delly's defense in the Finals last year.

And FWIW, you talk about people sleeping with sisters, while you need to get Drunkleavy's dick out of your mouth and his nuts off your chin bro... At least have the courtesy to wipe up after him, cuz he's dribbling all down the side of ya mouth.

buzzdog said:

You act like the guy is in a wheelchair but he's only a year older than Wade, and younger than RJ.

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He's a year and a half older than Wade... He's also NOT D. Wade or comparable to any hall of fame player... Common sense.. And I don't think RJ is really the norm but an exception to it; I'd expect that to fall off sometime in the near future rather than the distant future.

buzzdog said:

This is a long post, so I'll chill out and wait to see your 5 page slice-and-dice rebuttal.

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You got it...

tl;dr.

1) No Dunleavy is not better than Delly; please don't embarrass yourself trying to make such a claim.

2) We didn't trade Delly for Dunleavy; we allowed Delly to walk because we didn't want to match his salary; we then picked up Dunleavy in a salary dump and used the Delly S&T to facilitate Dunleavy. Both were financial moves, but not causually connected; i.e., we didn't know we were getting Dunleavy when we decided not to match Delly's offer sheet..

3) No, Dunleavy does not provide us with "more flexibility;" in fact, he offers us less flexibility. He's not as valuabe in any potential trade as Delly would be; nor does being closer to the salary cap yet invariably stuck over it provide greater flexibility. Any such argument that posits one less dollar of spending creates flexibility is purely naive.

Gus Zing said:

Because LeBron makes a lot of guys look good in the regular season. Playoffs even. However, within a series people can game plan and take guys out.

The fact Delly couldn't even play in the finals this year shows just how incredible of an effort LeBron gave in the finals last year.

The regular season doesn't matter for the Cavs anyway. I don't care if Felder, Mo, whoever isn't as good as Delly. Lue just has to commit to only playing Kyrie so many mins and keep him fresh for the playoffs.

Love Delly the person. I liked him more as asset than as a player.

Griff obviously thinks that the first half of the season play was not the norm for Delly. However, I would held onto him hoping some other team think that it is.

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Why do people think you can keep minutes if you've got bad players on the bench? The regular season does matter for just that reason.

Coaches, GMs, fans, and particularly the players aren't gonna catch L after L just because the bench is bad. The starters will play more minutes to keep that from happening. It happens over and over again.

Love the separation of reality vs emotion from the FO. Delly & Andy were fan favorites but we were willing to let them go for the betterment of the team. Delly shrunk in the finals, and we didn't need him to get there to be honest so I understand the move.

I am going to miss my Delly trays though. One of my favorite & most improved players last season. He really improved his overall game and continues to squeeze every ounce of talent out of himself.

getBUCKED said:

I am going to miss my Delly trays though. One of my favorite & most improved players last season. He really improved his overall game and continues to squeeze every ounce of talent out of himself.

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I think you're onto the core reason why they let Delly walk. I think the Cavs decided we've seen the best Delly has to give, his maximum upside. They put a value on that and decided it was either not essential to future success, or it was something that could be replaced by cheaper fringe players like Dunleavy and Felder.

getBUCKED said:

Love the separation of reality vs emotion from the FO. Delly & Andy were fan favorites but we were willing to let them go for the betterment of the team. Delly shrunk in the finals, and we didn't need him to get there to be honest so I understand the move.

I am going to miss my Delly trays though. One of my favorite & most improved players last season. He really improved his overall game and continues to squeeze every ounce of talent out of himself.

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JR Smith shrunk in the Finals. Channing Frye shrunk in the FInals. Iman Shumpert shrunk in the Finals.

We getting rid of everyone, or can we open our eyes and admit the rest of the season does actually matter?

“Don’t cry because it’s over, smile because it happened.”

Over the past two years, there’s nothing I’ve looked forward to more than coming home and watching the Cavs game on any particular evening. That anticipation, which got me through a lot of rough days at work, was largely to watch the team play, but part of me was always excited to get home and root for Delly.

Delly certainly isn’t the most “talented” or physically gifted basketball player. His critics, especially, have made that abundantly clear. But when it comes to energy and effort, Delly reigns supreme. I truly believe Delly gives it his all whenever he is on the court. It’s that amount of heart, that playoffs-level passion that Delly brings to each and every game that makes him so much fun to watch.

And this is a guy who was written off, an undrafted free agent who was told that he wasn’t good enough to play in the league. But he didn’t let that stop him.

• Delly, an undrafted free agent, finds his way onto an NBA team.
• Delly holds his own alongside the best player in the world.
• Delly plays on the biggest stage in basketball, the NBA Finals, and holds the almighty Curry to one of the worst shooting nights of his career in one game; Delly scores a heroic, hospital admitting 20 points in the next.
• Delly is one of the top five 3-point shooters in the league for much of the year and improves his game to career-high levels across the board.

And to cap it off, well, I think LeBron says it best.

“'Delly’s not fast enough. Delly’s not strong enough. Delly can’t shoot it well enough. Delly’s not an NBA player.’ Well, guess what? Delly’s a champion.”

Delly repeatedly convinced 20,562 people to chant his name, and deservedly so. How did he do it? If you ask him, he’ll likely credit his parents, sister, and girlfriend, or maybe David Blatt. Regardless, you won’t hear one self-aggrandizing word come out of Delly's mouth. As his “goodbye” Tweets demonstrate, Delly’s character is as strong as his accent.

#ALLin all, Delly is a good guy who defied the odds and is poised to achieve his dream while collecting nearly $40 million doing so. Doesn’t everyone want to believe in a person and story like that? I know I do. Delly has been and always will be a hero to me.

Sad as I am for myself to lose Delly from Cleveland, I’m thrilled for a guy who has been presented with an incredibly exciting opportunity and deserves every bit of it. Thank you, Delly, for three great years. I wish you many more! And who knows, maybe you’ll find your way back to Cleveland one day. (At the very least, I've already budgeted for a ticket to a Bucks game.)

What I'm going to miss most about Delly is his voice. Dat accent... But seriously, the dude's ability to talk on the floor is what made him such a great teammate here. And will continue to happen in Milwaukee. The guy has a veteran presence about him, and I'm sure he will thrive under Kidd. He's one of the only guys I've ever seen who yelled at LeBron to get into correct defensive or offensive possession. He's going to annoy Kyrie to all hell on another team, but I'll secretly be happy.

Impressed with Delly thru the years and I'm sad to see him go.
With his limited athletic ability he added pieces to his game like the PnR with Lebron which was frankly at an elite level. Also improved his 3 point consistently and worked on the floater. He'll have a good career as long as he keeps improving on this.

Honestly, this looks like another reason not to like GS. Livingston was too much handle for Delly and that basically started his being benched as the series progressed. He just doesn't have the length to be able to switch onto guys Livingston and Igoudala so you could see where the Cavs decided to go cheaper but a guy who if healthy would be a better matchup with GS in Dunleavy. I'm not a fan of preparing for just one team but I've been a big Dunleavy proponent so beggars can't be choosers

Definitely one of my top-10 favorite players to ever don a Cavaliers jersey. Might even be top-5.

So long, Delly.

Really sad to see Delly go.. I understand the move from a financial standpoint. I just hate to see our team get worse when our opponents in the Finals just signed a former league MVP.

Saving Varejao's TPE is the only positive out of this whole deal. That was a pretty savvy move and I assume Griffin did this with something in mind. He got us the pieces to win a championship so I'm not going to start questioning his decisions now.

I'll let this play out a bit before I begin to sweat. I want to win as many championships as possible but the worst is over and the pressure is off. Even more so with much of the league's focus being on GS now.

I'm actually pretty excited for next season to start.

Delly is as smart as they come when it comes to making the most out of his ability. He is one of those guys who should have a long career because his game is based on what's between the ears and not so much below the neck.

You have to wonder about our point guard depth beyond Kyrie and Lebron with him gone. Does Mo even have another year in him? Can Felder acclimate quickly enough to take up some minutes? Do we sign a vet minimum guy to come in and eat minutes during the season?

Dunleavy's father said in a radio interview last night that Dunleavy Jr. has been a point guard his whole life. Does he assume some of that role?

I guess we'll find out one way or the other soon enough.

Man I miss delly... Easily my favorite cav of all time... Truly personified Cleveland and the motto "nothing is given and everything is earned" I will def be at his first game back in the Q and I will give him a standing ovation. Hopefully with 20,561 other fans as well. Will never forget that 3 point play against Steph curry in the 2015 finals. I have never heard a bar that loud in my life. Hopefully at some point he comes back and wears the wine and gold. He will Always be welcome in Cleveland. From Undrafted to a NBA champion. DELLY