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2016 Presidential Race AND POLL

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Who do you plan to vote for in November?

  • Hillary Clinton

    Votes: 93 39.6%

  • Donald Trump

    Votes: 44 18.7%

  • Other

    Votes: 55 23.4%

  • I won't vote

    Votes: 43 18.3%
  • Total voters
    235
The Human Q-Tip said:
Is it really fair to blame all supporters of a candidate for the actions of just some of them?

I mean, we all know scummy people exist generally, and they end up supporting people too. Just because a candidate has some scummy supporters doesn't mean the candidate is a scumbag, nor does it mean everyone else who supports that candidate is a scumbag either. Odds are that every candidate has some supporters you just wouldn't like.

I do understand what you're saying, though. The closer I am to true Trump supporters -- those who pushed him in the primary -- the less willing I am to vote for him. Pretty much true for supporters of the other two candidates as well. I find myself most able to tolerate those who don't like any of the three.
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Yes, to a degree. Not all Trump supporters by any means are racist, but Hilary gave them the label. (and so have many others)

In the end it really comes down to how bad this election really has been. Its an embarrassment, but I get your point too. But the vocal few are speaking for these candidates and not even Bernie was willing to tell them to act appropriately. And for that, i can blame the candidate.
 
Lee said:
Dont disagree here either. Just not sure how this all happened, but to be clear Some of the Bernie supporters were as bad as any one else out there. Sure they were trying to make a difference, but there was violence, and complete disregard for law from them too.

This is such a sad, sad, election.

I cry for the days we had Obama vs Romney. At least i didnt cringe at all options 4 years ago.
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This little sub-discussion points out a huge truth about American politics that some just don't want to admit -- when you get right down to it, we all actually agree about very little. Because the truth is, there are plenty of people who detested both Obama and Romney, just as so many now detest Hillary, Trump and Bernie. But at the same time, there are other people who are huge supporters of Obama, Romney, Hillary, Trump, and Bernie. And each of those groups believes that everyone else is the problem for not seeing "the truth".

Some folks like to fool themselves into thinking there is this great "middle" out of there of decent people who really just want us all to come together, and who would be fine if we could just find the right candidate. And that's all bullshit

It's like Hillary's slogan "Better Together." We're not together. We don't agree, except on a very surface level of describing some problems generally. But as soon as it comes time for solutions, we fracture, sometimes on very profound and important grounds.

And I'd add that that more stuff in which the government has its mitts, the less likely you are to see candidates with consensus support. Just too many potential areas of disagreement.
 
gourimoko said:
:chuckle:

I get what you're saying, but keep in mind, 99.9999% of Bernie supporters are not paid.

Also, Bernie got virtually no support from the DNC, and his ground game was a joke. Really have to distinguish between the Clinton camp and the Sanders camp.
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Zulema Rodriguez, who said she was involved in chicago and arizona, was paid directly by Hillary's campaign earlier this year (just a few weeks before both events).

https://beta.fec.gov/data/disbursements/?two_year_transaction_period=2016&recipient_name=ZULEMA RODRIGUEZ&min_date=01/01/2015&max_date=12/31/2016
 
KI4MVP said:
Zulema Rodriguez, who said she was involved in chicago and arizona, was paid directly by Hillary's campaign earlier this year.

https://beta.fec.gov/data/disbursements/?two_year_transaction_period=2016&recipient_name=ZULEMA RODRIGUEZ&min_date=01/01/2015&max_date=12/31/2016
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She wasn't paid directly by Clinton's campaign. Hillary For America and Stand Up Ohio are SuperPACs/PACs (respectively). Moreover HFA barely gave her any money; and Stand Up Ohio looks like a very small group that only has a few people associated with it with Rodriguez being the principal paid consultant.

Also not sure why this is relevant... This is not the DNC, this is not Clinton's campaign.
 
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I too live in AZ. One person was not blocking that highway.
 
DJTJ said:
I too live in AZ. One person was not blocking that highway.
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No, it was a very large group of people. But it was blocked, they are just lucky an emergency vehicle didnt need to come through because they could have been arrested for felony.
 
gourimoko said:
She wasn't paid directly by Clinton's campaign. Hillary For America and Stand Up Ohio are SuperPACs/PACs (respectively).

Also not sure why this is relevant?
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Hillary for America is who runs her official web site and has raised $386 million. If that's not her official campaign committee, who is? The FEC calls Hillary for America "Presidential • Principal campaign committee"

And how is it not relevant that someone who worked for Clinton claims to have organized blocking the roads in Arizona in a discussion if it was Bernie supporters or people paid to pretend to be Bernie supporters? Both of these incidents (Chicago and Arizona) made Trump supporters and Sanders supporters look bad. Doesn't it make a difference if it wasn't even Sanders supporters?
 
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KI4MVP said:
Hillary for America is who runs her official web site and has raised $386 million. If that's not her official campaign committee, who is?

And how is it not relevant that someone who worked for Clinton claims to have organized blocking the roads in Arizona in a discussion if it was Bernie supporters or people paid to pretend to be Bernie supporters? Both of these incidents (Chicago and Arizona) made Trump and Sanders look bad.
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I will just point out that Bernie supporters disrupting rallies in Chicago/AZ and Hillary supporters doing the same are not mutually exclusive. And as you point out, it is possible that there some pro-Hillary trolls mixed in with the real Bernie supporters as additional (perhaps even unnecessary) agitators.

I think the primary difference is that the Hillary supporters would be more likely to conceal their identify, and the Bernie supporters more likely to trumpet theirs. Hence, the perception that it was all Bernie.

I'm not saying that's how it actually went down. I'm just saying that it is possible.
 
KI4MVP said:
Hillary for America is who runs her official web site and has raised $386 million. If that's not her official campaign committee, who is?
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Indeed, I got HFA (PAC) mixed up with Priorities USA (SuperPAC). One is a PAC the other a SuperPAC.

KI4MVP said:
And how is it not relevant that someone who worked for Clinton claims to have organized blocking the roads in Arizona in a discussion if it was Bernie supporters or people paid to pretend to be Bernie supporters? Both of these incidents (Chicago and Arizona) made Trump and Sanders look bad.
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It's not remotely relevant because HFA only paid her $1,600, that was prior to their actions on the highway. This could have been for anything, including a few weeks of campaign organizing, picking up materials, knocking on doors, organizing volunteers. This is not a large sum of money. She wasn't "on the payroll" in the sense that she was being paid as an operative. She got a disbursement from the campaign, likely for some work that she did working alongside Democrats. Conflating this with the $17.6k she got from Stand Up Ohio PAC and saying she's somehow a paid Clinton operative is silly.

That's why I'm saying this is not relevant to Clinton or the DNC.
 
Maximus said:
Part 2 just dropped...
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Seems odd that political professionals would spend money and engage in concerted voter fraud if they didn't think it would influence elections....
 
http://www.nationalenquirer.com/celebrity/hillary-clinton-lesbian-sex-claims-vince-foster-fixer/

“I arranged a meeting for Hillary and a woman in an exclusive Beverly Hills hotel,” the man, who was hired by the Clintons, via a Hollywood executive, to cover up their scandals, told The ENQUIRER.

“She had come to the studio to see the filming of a movie in 1994.”

“While I was there, I helped her slip out of a back exit for a one-on-one session with the other woman. It was made to look casual, leaving quietly [rather] that being caught up in the melee … but really it was for something presumably more sordid.”

Hillary’s former bagman finally confessed to The ENQUIRER just how he helped her to cover up her affair with married lover Vince Foster, too!

In the bombshell exposé, The ENQUIRER will reveal the fixer’s dossier of smoking gun proof, including 24-years of documents, notes, and journals.
 
Kiddo said:
http://www.nationalenquirer.com/celebrity/hillary-clinton-lesbian-sex-claims-vince-foster-fixer/

“I arranged a meeting for Hillary and a woman in an exclusive Beverly Hills hotel,” the man, who was hired by the Clintons, via a Hollywood executive, to cover up their scandals, told The ENQUIRER....
“While I was there, I helped her slip out of a back exit for a one-on-one session with the other woman. It was made to look casual, leaving quietly [rather] that being caught up in the melee … but really it was for something presumably more sordid.”
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In other words, he really doesn't know what happened....

For that matter, it wouldn't and shouldn't matter even if she did. Hillary munching carpets more than 20 years ago is not exactly an issue relevant to the future of the country.
 
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