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Perception of Dolans vs Attendance

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Out of the Rafters at the Q said:
Your feelings are misplaced. Be mad at MLB and the MLBPA--not the Indians.



This shit is fucking laughable. Obviously we weren't making moves like the Indians of the 90s. Nobody will probably ever get that lucky again. Do you understand that the 90s Indians were probably the best baseball team over an extended period that you'll ever see (even though they didn't win a WS)?

You're actually saying you're upset because we didn't pull off a heist like trading Eddie Taubensee for Kenny Lofton, or Felix Fermin for Omar Vizquel. You can't trade bums for hall of fame level players consistently (but look at the Casey Blake and all the Seattle deals to see that we're still robbing people blind occasionally).

The casual fan was thrilled when the Indians signed Swisher. That person's feelings shouldn't run an organization. If they can't understand that, maybe that's the root of the problem--there aren't enough intelligent people in the Indians's market, and small market baseball no longer appeals to the casual idiot.
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You also aren't completely reading what I am saying either. I wasn't actually referring to me when it came to most things in my statements, I was referring to general fans in Cleveland. Cleveland fans are mostly if we don't win then they complain. There is a ton of negative fans out there. I am not upset about anything to be honest. I just stated I didn't like the moves we were making.

We went from Jacobs who was winning and at least trying to bring in free agents to cover holes to Dolan who had a bad scouting/drafting staff and didn't spend any money to bring in free agents. So you had spoiled 90s fans which the team had new owners and the new owners werent putting out a good team anymore. The casual fan is blaming them and my opinion was at first the team wasn't welll run and looking back it is easy to tell at first Dolan and the FO didn't really know what they were doing. Indians bought low and essentially sold high on players. It felt like their was disconnect between Owner, FO and manager for a fair amount of years.

Once again I have stated that the team has been very good of late especially since we changed the owner (aka the younger Dolan is now running the show) and we got Francona as our manager who is friends/on very good terms with our FO. We have been a lot, a lot better and I am giving them high grades the last few seasons. Now that being said in the years of Acta and not signing that free agent like the fans want, they lost faith in the FO to make the deals they wanted and now don't care about the team. We should have gotten some of those fans back but it doesnt mean we have all of them
 
sportscoach said:
You also aren't completely reading what I am saying either. I wasn't actually referring to me when it came to most things in my statements, I was referring to general fans in Cleveland. Cleveland fans are mostly if we don't win then they complain. There is a ton of negative fans out there. I am not upset about anything to be honest. I just stated I didn't like the moves we were making.

We went from Jacobs who was winning and at least trying to bring in free agents to cover holes to Dolan who had a bad scouting/drafting staff and didn't spend any money to bring in free agents. So you had spoiled 90s fans which the team had new owners and the new owners werent putting out a good team anymore. The casual fan is blaming them and my opinion was at first the team wasn't welll run and looking back it is easy to tell at first Dolan and the FO didn't really know what they were doing. Indians bought low and essentially sold high on players. It felt like their was disconnect between Owner, FO and manager for a fair amount of years.

Once again I have stated that the team has been very good of late especially since we changed the owner (aka the younger Dolan is now running the show) and we got Francona as our manager who is friends/on very good terms with our FO. We have been a lot, a lot better and I am giving them high grades the last few seasons. Now that being said in the years of Acta and not signing that free agent like the fans want, they lost faith in the FO to make the deals they wanted and now don't care about the team. We should have gotten some of those fans back but it doesnt mean we have all of them
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If you make those free agent signings, two things happen:

1) The team doesn't do any better.
2) The team isn't this good now.

Based on your statement about the casual fan caring about winning, I can't imagine that it would've worked out any better.

It really sounds like the people you're describing are just stupid people who can't be bothered to learn anything about the sport. I don't think there's a way to win those people over until we get a more balanced playing field in MLB.
 
Out of the Rafters at the Q said:
If you make those free agent signings, two things happen:

1) The team doesn't do any better.
2) The team isn't this good now.

Based on your statement about the casual fan caring about winning, I can't imagine that it would've worked out any better.

It really sounds like the people you're describing are just stupid people who can't be bothered to learn anything about the sport. I don't think there's a way to win those people over until we get a more balanced playing field in MLB.
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At the time the fans wanted to see the Dolan's spend money and i know as well as anyone it wouldn't have done a whole lot for us probably. We might have made the wild card one season but that would have been an extent of the signings, but there is a fair amount of fans who don't really care. They want the wins now whether it makes sense to do it or not. We have a good roster whether or not we sign a free agent. I feel we need to since adding a RH power bat in this lineup will upgrade it, but we shall see how things work out.
 
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BMAN said:
While that's great to see...it's still only 100 bro
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Well, it's still 24 hours. What happens in a week? A month? 2 months? The number will continue to rise.
 
MirORich said:
It's full 81 game packages he's talking about. Does not account for the 6 game packs and surge in individual games that will occur once those go on sale.
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I know this. I'm saying it isn't that impressive though considering how much the stadium capacity is...
 
Real Deal said:
Well, it's still 24 hours. What happens in a week? A month? 2 months? The number will continue to rise.
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And I would love to see that. I'm actually looking into it myself. (Been looking at it before the signing btw). I'm just saying don't put it in his face when it's only 100 extra.
 
BMAN said:
I know this. I'm saying it isn't that impressive though considering how much the stadium capacity is...
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That type of financial commitment for a full 81 game package is nothing to scoff at. For that type of movement in less than 24 hours, I think it's actually pretty impressive.

Obviously, come late March when all the numbers have been crunched, we'll have an opportunity to see what the advance ticket/attendance numbers are heading into the season, compared to the overall capacity of the park and previous seasons
 
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BMAN said:
And I would love to see that. I'm actually looking into it myself. (Been looking at it before the signing btw). I'm just saying don't put it in his face when it's only 100 extra.
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He takes shots at Indians fans attending whenever he could. All season and even recently.
 
Real Deal said:
He takes shots at Indians fans attending whenever he could. All season and even recently.
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I mean, team went to game 7 and they needed a marquee free agent to have more season ticket plans?

AZ, and those who agree with him (me included), aren't in the free agents when titles camp, and marvel at how this org is run. It's not sexy, so this city (who outside of the Browns, really only gets behind winners when a title is palatable and dangling in front of their nose) rejects the org. FYI, Indians are ran considerably better than the Cavs, top to bottom, and have been for a few years.
 
DJTJ said:
FYI, Indians are ran considerably better than the Cavs, top to bottom, and have been for a few years.
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This is true. Gilbert, to his credit will spend his way out of mistakes and into opportunities(the Baron Davis trade that yielded Kyrie as just one example) but overall the Cavs high level success is predicated mostly on LeBrons choice to return and in a sport where just a few individual players greatly affects your ability to win. The Indians have had to build this in a much different market dynamic, both in terms of how successful organizations are built in baseball and financial climate.

That said, they are both good organizations and I'm greatly enjoying this 2014-?? run of excellence that both teams are giving us.
 
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