LeBron James

blommen · Mar 17, 2017

Rich said:
No I don't agree with this at all. LeBron can't go through an entire regular season with a 42% usg like Westbrook has, which would be required to give them a better record. I don't think he has that in him anymore.

And the fact is it's REAL hard to argue LeBron would do better than Harden when Harden's team currently has a better record with LESS talent.

I agree, LeBron wouldn't have a 42% usage rate, because LeBron is smarter than that. Nobody in the NBA plays harder than Westbrook but there absolutely players who play smarter, Harden and LeBron are among those. I absolutely think LeBron could get a better win record out of OKC, even though he probably wouldn't have the same numbers. I can see the Harden argument, but I just don't see LeBron with that amount of shooters, in Hardens role, with all that spacing not being able to replicate what he's doing. The issue of course is that Harden is a better free throw shooter and 3 point shooter, but I still think 'Brons defensive upside would be able to counteract at least some of that and his basketball I.Q. and leadership would upset the rest.

Rich · Mar 17, 2017

blommen said:
I agree, LeBron wouldn't have a 42% usage rate, because LeBron is smarter than that. Nobody in the NBA plays harder than Westbrook but there absolutely players who play smarter, Harden and LeBron are among those. I absolutely think LeBron could get a better win record out of OKC, even though he probably wouldn't have the same numbers. I can see the Harden argument, but I just don't see LeBron with that amount of shooters, in Hardens role, with all that spacing not being able to replicate what he's doing. The issue of course is that Harden is a better free throw shooter and 3 point shooter, but I still think 'Brons defensive upside would be able to counteract at least some of that and his basketball I.Q. and leadership would upset the rest.

So right here, right now, you're saying Houston has put together a better supporting cast for LeBron than Cleveland has?

That's insane.

Harden, btw, is also putting up a 35 USG rate, a higher rate than LeBron has ever put up. So, no, I don't think he could do that for an entire season this late in his career, either.

Here LeBron sits, with what I thought was unarguably way more talent on his team than what Harden has, but now.....I guess not? You can't actually believe this.

If you're someone who thinks that Houston would be currently be better if you replaced Harden with LeBron, then why aren't the Cavaliers better than Houston?

I'm trying to get someone to admit what they don't want to, but this whole idea that Houston might actually have a better team for LeBron than Cleveland does has taken my by surprise here..

blommen · Mar 17, 2017

Rich said:
So right here, right now, you're saying Houston has put together a better supporting cast for LeBron than Cleveland has?

That's insane.

Harden, btw, is also putting up a 35 USG rate, a higher rate than LeBron has ever put up. So, no, I don't think he could do that for an entire season this late in his career, either.

Here LeBron sits, with what I thought was unarguably way more talent on his team than what Harden has, but now.....I guess not? You can't actually believe this.

If you're someone who thinks that Houston would be currently be better if you replaced Harden with LeBron, then why aren't the Cavaliers better than Houston?

I'm trying to get someone to admit what they don't want to, but this whole idea that Houston might actually have a better team for LeBron than Cleveland does has taken my by surprise here..

Because Houston is playing in the west, and unlike the Cavs whatever their seeding becomes will have a massive impact on how far they get in the post season. There's a much bigger sense of urgency out west. I think a huge part of the reason the cavs have looked so lackadasical this season is the fact that they fucking know they are going to the finals and they don't have to play to their fullest all the time. Our season so far has basically been one long experiment in trying to find new players to integrate, integrate them and then figure out what Line-ups to run, all the while dealing with injuries. I'm not saying that the Cavs are not good, I think we have an incredible team, but to dismiss the fact that us being in the east kind of allows us to rest on our laurels from time to time, seems a bit shortsighted to me, no offense.

Rich · Mar 17, 2017

blommen said:
Because Houston is playing in the west, and unlike the Cavs whatever their seeding becomes will have a massive impact on how far they get in the post season. There's a much bigger sense of urgency out west. I think a huge part of the reason the cavs have looked so lackadasical this season is the fact that they fucking know they are going to the finals and they don't have to play to their fullest all the time. Our season so far has basically been one long experiment in trying to find new players to integrate, integrate them and then figure out what Line-ups to run, all the while dealing with injuries. I'm not saying that the Cavs are not good, I think we have an incredible team, but to dismiss the fact that us being in the east kind of allows us to rest on our laurels from time to time, seems a bit shortsighted to me, no offense.

So now explain to me how James is the MVP of the regular season, if he's taking it easy, not fully focused, and resting on his laurels? Is he having a better season than James Harden, yes or no?

See, people want to conflate who is having the best season with who is the best player. LeBron having another gear has very little to do with what he's currently doing, right now. The fact that he can and most likely will be better than Harden when he turns it up a notch has nothing at all to do with whether or not he's better than Harden, and has been better than Harden, this regular season.

I'll put it like this. LeBron not going full out, balls to the wall, is not a better or more valuable than what James Harden has been this season.

blommen · Mar 17, 2017

Rich said:
So now explain to me how James is the MVP of the regular season, if he's taking it easy, not fully focused, and resting on his laurels? Is he having a better season than James Harden, yes or no?

See, people want to conflate who is having the best with who is the best player. LeBron having another gear has very little to do with what he's currently doing, right now. The fact that he can and most likely will be better than Harden when he turns it up a notch has nothing at all to do with whether or not he's better than Harden, and has been better than Harden, this regular season.

I'll put it like this. LeBron not going full out, balls to the wall, is not a better or more valuable than what James Harden has been this season.

I wasn't arguing wether LeBron was the MVP or not, I was arguing that he would make Houston and OKC better than Harden or Westbrook. I agree with you, and I think Harden deserves the MVP if he gets it, shit I wouldn't even be that mad if Westbrook got it depending on his team record, or even Kawhi. I still think you could make an argument for LeBron based on his impact on the team he has around him, especially if he closes out the year strong and catches Houston in the standings, which I don't think is outside the realm of possibility.

MrX · Mar 17, 2017

Rich said:
So you're telling me if I put LeBron on the ROckets the Rockets would have a better record?

Because if you say that, you're saying the Rockets, by default, have a better supporting cast than LeBron has right now...and that's total and utter bullshit.

Yes I am saying that. I hate to disrespect my own team but just to be real here. Go to 82games and look at Houston and look at Cavs.

Its ridiculous in comparison. Outside are big 3 it's south. Look at players production and opponents net rating. Look at on court off court net rating. They are all negative outside LeBron Love and Kyrie.

Houston is balanced. They got 10 guys with a positive on off net. Come playoff time they will have players with a positive rating not playing. When Harden sits do you see their team fall apart?

MrX · Mar 17, 2017

Lmao that's all you got is a red X lol. What can't think of anything to say back? You know why because stats back it up. Mvp has and always will be a joke

bob2the2nd · Mar 17, 2017

MrX said:
Yes I am saying that. I hate to disrespect my own team but just to be real here. Go to 82games and look at Houston and look at Cavs.

Its ridiculous in comparison. Outside are big 3 it's south. Look at players production and opponents net rating. Look at on court off court net rating. They are all negative outside LeBron Love and Kyrie.

Houston is balanced. They got 10 guys with a positive on off net. Come playoff time they will have players with a positive rating not playing. When Harden sits do you see their team fall apart?

You can make a damn good arguement that each of the cavs starters are better than each of the rockets starters though.
Lebron better than harden
Kyrie better than houston #2
Love better than houston #3

In the playoffs when you play 7 maybe 8 deep, no i dont care that houston players 6-10 are better than cavs players 6-10, because 1-5 are getting 90%of the minutes

MrX · Mar 17, 2017

bob2the2nd said:
You can make a damn good arguement that each of the cavs starters are better than each of the rockets starters though.
Lebron better than harden
Kyrie better than houston #2
Love better than houston #3

In the playoffs when you play 7 maybe 8 deep, no i dont care that houston players 6-10 are better than cavs players 6-10, because 1-5 are getting 90%of the minutes

Yes I can't argue there

Rich · Mar 17, 2017

MrX said:
Yes I am saying that. I hate to disrespect my own team but just to be real here. Go to 82games and look at Houston and look at Cavs.

Its ridiculous in comparison. Outside are big 3 it's south. Look at players production and opponents net rating. Look at on court off court net rating. They are all negative outside LeBron Love and Kyrie.

Houston is balanced. They got 10 guys with a positive on off net. Come playoff time they will have players with a positive rating not playing. When Harden sits do you see their team fall apart?

This is crazy. Harden doesn't have a player even in Irving or Love's atmosphere. Fuck 6-10.

And if you asked LeBron which roster he'd rather have he'd take this one 10 times out of 10.

MrX · Mar 17, 2017

Rich said:
This is crazy. Harden doesn't have a player even in Irving or Love's atmosphere. Fuck 6-10.

And if you asked LeBron which roster he'd rather have he'd take this one 10 times out of 10.

Yes I agree. He would but only for the same reason Bob2the2nd mentioned. We are talking about season mvp not best playoff team.

LeBron would have a lot easier time winning games if he could rest and not lose leads. This is not new news

Rich · Mar 17, 2017

But part of the reason LeBron is losing leads is because LeBron isn't playing his hardest. Harden is. Harden has a usage rate that otherwise would have been unheard of if not for Westbrook this year. He's doing everything.

MrX · Mar 17, 2017

Rich said:
But part of the reason LeBron is losing leads is because LeBron isn't playing his hardest. Harden is. Harden has a usage rate that otherwise would have been unheard of if not for Westbrook this year. He's doing everything.

I'm talking about Cavs losing leads when LeBron sits. Its hardly LeBrons fault over blown lead when he sits on a bench.

You say because he's not playing his hardest is why? If he's on the bench he's not playing at all.

Zog · Mar 17, 2017

Taking Harden off the Rockets and putting LeBron in his place would absolutely lead to more wins for the Rockets. LeBron would also be out of gas by the end of the season playing that system. But the system they play leads to teams overachieving in the regular season more often than not.

Zog · Mar 17, 2017

Rich said:
But part of the reason LeBron is losing leads is because LeBron isn't playing his hardest. Harden is. Harden has a usage rate that otherwise would have been unheard of if not for Westbrook this year. He's doing everything.

Harden On/Off:
On: Rockets +8.1
Off: Rockets +6.5

LeBron On/Off:
On: Cavs +9.4
Off: Cavs -7.3

LeBron is not losing leads, the rest of the team is when LeBron is not on the court. Something that Harden doesn't have to deal with because the Rockets outscore opponents whether he is on the court or off.

Harden also only plays hard on one end of the floor, and has a negative impact on defense, a big reason why the Rockets don't have much of a drop off when he leaves the court.

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