• Changing RCF's index page, please click on "Forums" to access the forums.

2017-2018 Boston Celtics: No Irving! No Hayward! No Brooklyn Pick!

Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Regrade the finalized trade

  • A+

    Votes: 20 8.0%
  • A

    Votes: 70 27.9%
  • B

    Votes: 74 29.5%
  • C

    Votes: 39 15.5%
  • D

    Votes: 18 7.2%
  • F

    Votes: 30 12.0%

  • Total voters
    251
People need to go back and watch the '11 playoffs and see just how mindbogglingly good Chris Paul was at point guard. That one series against the Lakers is still, bar none, the best point guard play I have ever seen. Paul was absolutely stupid good back then and his game has matured incredibly well all things considered. The only thing that has held him back in all these years has been either bad teams, injuries or simply being stuck in the sharktank that is the western conference. He was absolutely the best PG in the world for at the very least a period of 5 years and possibly longer.
 
Last edited:
I'm not even arguing Kyrie will be "greater" than CP3. They're always going to be difficult to compare because their respective skillsets are so different.

I do also happen to agree, however, that if he never even makes The Finals, people will lose sight of how great he was/is as the years pass. I don't think it is fair and the basketball junkies like us for the most part will remember him, but a player needs "moments" on the biggest stage to really stick in people's minds longterm.

Kyrie already has one of the biggest moments in NBA history in his dossier. In the long-run, those things matter in whether or not people remember you.
 
Those are still mighty big expectations. Hey, I hope he does.

I think Chris Paul, after Magic and Thomas, might be the best point guard. He gives Stockton a run for his money. I love Stockton, he was one of my favorites next to the Glove. So I'm bias there. But I can't deny CP3 might be the better of two. I used to think it was Stockton, but I'm not so sure. They're different.

I think Stockton runs the pick-and-roll better than everyone that's ever played, even Paul, but I don't think he's hands down better than him in that department. And that's the only thing I can think of that Stockton his him beat.

But even still, Paul has mastered the lop pass off the pick-and-roll better than anyone.

As a pure passer it's hard to top Magic and Stockton. But Paul, I think is a better defender than Stockton and obviously a better scorer. It's at least a legit question.

Paul and Kyrie different players though, not denying that.

I think Kyrie really needs to improve his defense going forward to make a better argument. Paul isn't just good, he's absolutely great in this regard.

He doesn't need to be that good obviously, but when we factor in both sides of the ball. Sure, Kyrie can score better, but Paul is excellent running an offense and getting the best out of others on the floor.

So it's at least a toss up which player is the better offensive player. Even if you say Kyrie, I don't think it's by that much..

But Paul is an elite defender, and Kyrie has been pretty awful on that end. Downright near the worst in the league category at times. So, as of now, that's where the comparison falls off for Kyrie.

He doesn't need to be Paul good, but I think Kyrie needs to become at least an average defensive player, and continue to build on his scoring/playing making game to make it more of a legit debate going forward.

As of now, Paul is superior overall in their careers thus far.

Oscar Robertson is the 2nd best pg of all time, then Isiah, then CP3 or Stockton.

But different era and your point is still valid.
 
Chris Paul is past his prime and Kyrie hasn't even started his yet.

It's impossible to compare the careers of these two right now. Especially considering we've never seen a team built around Kyrie and we've never seen CP3 play with another superstar such as LeBron.

This is not directed at you but I often see it posted that this Cavs team is not built around Kyrie. How different would a team built around Kyrie really look? I mean doesn't Kyrie benefit from the ridiculous spacing that the Cavs have? The answer can't just be have more three and d guys cause those guys don't grow on trees...if they were available the Cavs would take them with LeBron too. If the answer is more Roberson pure defense and no offense wings then Kyrie will face the same problems that Westbrook faces in that teams will just pack the paint and double or triple team him.

It seems to me that the Cavs are already built as best as possible around an elite slasher like Kyrie. Sure the roster could use more defense in general (like a shotblocker) but it's not like Griff turned down some available defensive player that would work with Kyrie on the basis that said player would not have worked with LeBron.
 
Last edited:
Oscar Robertson is the 2nd best pg of all time, then Isiah, then CP3 or Stockton.

But different era and your point is still valid.

Yea that's the exact order of my list too. Magic then Oscar then Isiah then Stockton/Paul who I can't pick between. The next group would have Frazier/Kidd/Nash/Curry/Westbrook/Payton etc. in some order. I'm gonna call Jerry West, Allen Iverson, and James Harden shooting guards even though they played a lot of point too.
 
Yea that's the exact order of my list too. Magic then Oscar then Isiah then Stockton/Paul who I can't pick between. The next group would have Frazier/Kidd/Nash/Curry/Westbrook/Payton etc. in some order. I'm gonna call Jerry West, Allen Iverson, and James Harden shooting guards even though they played a lot of point too.

I honestly think a lot of the Guards we are seeing today have a shot at becoming all-time greats. Iron sharpens iron, and with the way the rules have opened up the opportunity for perimeter play and dominance I think we could be looking at this period as the golden age of PG's in a decades time, the same way the 90's are considered the golden age of big men.
 
This is not directed at you but I often see it posted that the Cavs are built around LeBron and not Kyrie. How different would a team built around Kyrie really look?
It would look a lot different. LeBron accounts for so many things that we're better off loading this roster with shooters to complement him.

Kyrie is a totally different player than LeBron with a different and less extensive skillset. So different areas need to be addressed.

We just talked about how hard it is for a PG-led team to win a title. What did the Bad Boys have? Elite defense. What did the mid 2000s Pistons have? Elite defense. What did the 2015 Warriors have? Elite defense (and offense).

I mean doesn't Kyrie benefit from the ridiculous spacing that the Cavs have? The answer can't just be have more three and d guys cause those guys don't grow on trees...if they were available the Cavs would take them with LeBron too. If the answer is more Roberson pure defense and no offense wings then Kyrie will face the same problems that Westbrook faces in that teams will just pack the paint and double or triple team him.
Kyrie has proven he can get buckets and get them efficiently no matter the circumstance. Spacing is nice but it's not essential for Kyrie like it is for LeBron.

We're talking about a theoretical universe in which the Cavs are built around Kyrie. Our ability or inablity to acquire certain players on this current team is, frankly, irrelevant.

It seems to me that the Cavs are already built as best as possible around an elite slasher like Kyrie. Sure the roster could use more defense in general but it's not like Griff turned down some available defensive player that would work with Kyrie on the basis that he would not work with LeBron.
I would never classify Kyrie as an "elite slasher." And no they are not built as best as possible around him; far from it. Yes, the roster would need a much larger focus on defense.

For instance, Love would be a dumb player to pair with Kyrie if LeBron wasn't here. As a trio with LeBron it works because of all he does. But if LeBron wasn't here? Kyrie and Love makes zero sense. You'd want to trade Love for a strong defensive, shot blocking, rebounding Center or a strong defensive, slashing, capable 3 point shooting wing.

If I'm building a team around Kyrie, those are the absolute essential starting points. A really good 3&D wing player and a really good Center.

We have neither of those on this team when LeBron is off the floor. So, yeah, a team built around Kyrie would look vastly different.

It's not an accident this team struggles so much when LeBron sits. The pieces don't fit well at all without him.
 
Oscar Robertson is the 2nd best pg of all time, then Isiah, then CP3 or Stockton.

But different era and your point is still valid.

Yeah, I knew I was forgetting someone. I kinda put Robertson though in a different era. It's nearly impossible to compare the pre-three point shooting era to now.
 
But CP3, at this point, has been the superior player. That's not a knock to Kyrie. After Kobe and Wade, he's been the third best guard of this generation, IMO.

One more thing to add to the point I'm trying to make. The explosive scoring of the other two guys you listed is a better comparison for Kyrie and where his career is heading than Paul is.
 
Kyrie can score the ball with ease...... So can whomever he's defending.
 

Rubber Rim Job Podcast Video

Episode 3-14: "Time for Playoff Vengeance on Mickey"

Rubber Rim Job Podcast Spotify

Episode 3:14: " Time for Playoff Vengeance on Mickey."
Top