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The Paul George Safari: LeBron Strikes Back!

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gourimoko said:
You can blame DG for what's been going on for the past year in the front-office, meddling, etc. You can blame DG for Anthony Bennett. And you can blame DG for making an ass out of himself today...

You can blame DG for a lot of things.
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I'm not blaming him for Bennett. He told Grant to make the #1 selection and choose the guy he thought would be the best. Chris Grant took Anthony Bennett. Chris Grant determined that Anthony Bennett would be the best player to select with the first pick, and he can't even stay on a euro league team after failing his way out of the NBA. That is all on Chris Grant. He probably could have traded down and made just as dumb of a decion with his picks like he did with Waiters and like he did with Tristan (low ceiling player with Klay and Kawhi on deck). He passed on two separate super stars to draft a low ceiling high floor player, and a dude that's not even good enough to be in the NBA.
 
TyGuy said:
I'm not blaming him for Bennett. He told Grant to make the #1 selection and choose the guy he thought would be the best. Chris Grant took Anthony Bennett. Chris Grant determined that Anthony Bennett would be the best player to select with the first pick, and he can't even stay on a euro league team after failing his way out of the NBA. That is all on Chris Grant. He probably could have traded down and made just as dumb of a decion with his picks like he did with Waiters and like he did with Tristan (low ceiling player with Klay and Kawhi on deck). He passed on two separate super stars to draft a low ceiling high floor player, and a dude that's not even good enough to be in the NBA.
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I hear you, but, I recall it being said, on very good authority that's not how things went down .. I can't share that here, since this isn't S34. But I understand that Gilbert was actively involved in that pick.
 
gourimoko said:
I agree with you, and I was on the fence about the Love trade...

With that said, in hindsight (which.. isn't how you evaluate a trade), Love was totally unnecessary in our winning the 1 championship we have over the past 3 years. One might argue we win in 2014-15 with Wiggins rather than Kevin Love (who did not play).

So, to be fair... the Love trade didn't result in the Cavs winning the championship.. LeBron and Kyrie were the biggest components to that title run.

And if we had Wiggins now, we could've flipped him for Jimmy Butler, making the Cavs overall a better team.

In hindsight, the "win now / mortgage your future" approach did not work. And while Love getting injured, etc, shouldn't be weighed in hindsight against such a trade -- the overall outcome does speak to the idea that we should always be "All In" with LeBron.

If were the GM and I could go back in time and inform myself of the future, I wouldn't make the Kevin Love / Andrew Wiggins trade. It made sense at the time, with the information we had, surely; but again, it didn't work out as planned.
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Kevin Love was +17 in game 7 of the nba finals in which we won by 4 points. Andrew Wiggins up to this point has been shitty. There is no guarantee we win it at all with Andrew Wiggins. We won that series by a cunts hair.
 
ACisKING said:
I still think Thompson is worth his contract in an NBA where guys like Noah and Mozgov are a making nearly as much money. Thompson is durable and young. Yes he was bad in this year's finals, but he was fantastic in the playoffs for three years straight, including twice in the finals against the Warriors. He was without question the Cavs third best player in the 2016 Finals that ended the Cleveland curse and won the Cavs its first and only championship. Sports is the ultimate "what have you done for me lately" profession, but let's not forget how big of a piece he's been for the Cavaliers during this three year run.
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Yea compared to other players on similar deals, he is worth it. And it's not just TT, but we have a lot of money invested in players who are somewhat one dimensional in what they do, especially outside of the big 3. I just wish the Cavs had better surrounding players around our big 3. I don't know if Id say TT was our 3rd best, I'd have that between Jr or Love honestly.
 
ZissisKilla said:
It's not DG's fault that he left before. A history of awful contracts significantly hampered the franchinse and what happened with Bron leaving and us getting Kyrie, landing other high picks, then Bron returning was probably our best shot at winning a title anyway.

It's hard to blame DG for anything other than the letter. It's not DG's fault Bron basically strongarmed the team into giving impossible to unload contracts to JR and Tristan.

If it wasn't for DG's willingness to open the checkbook for these dumb deals, Bron probably would have left again already.
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Laughable someone willing to not blame Gilbert, but would LeBron.

Yo, LeBron did us a favor coming back. And we'd still be in the lottery to this day, sucking ass, if he wasn't born near Cleveland.

What awful deals? TT's contract is actually fair. JR, IMO, got about fair market value, maybe even less.

These guys hit the market when the cap was rocketing. I think people are over blowing things dramatically suggesting they're massively overpaid.

And would we be better off losing them? We're still capped out, dude!

There's NO WAY to replace their production. So again, to think LeBron has fucked us, is laughable.
 
gourimoko said:
I hear you, but, I recall it being said, on very good authority that's not how things went down .. I can't share that here, since this isn't S34. But I understand that Gilbert was actively involved in that pick.
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I remember it vividly. Everybody was pissed we just took fat Bennett and max came in to calm everybody down. He said Grant was instructed by Gilbert to keep the pick and make the selection. That Bennett was deemed the least likely to Bust (LO fucking L)
 
LennoxLewis said:
So we are not gonna blame the TT contract, I know he is great at what he does and in today's NBA it's not terrible, but he was non existent for most of the finals.

The Love trade you make 11 times out of 10, with or without Wiggins. Waiting it out wouldn't have worked imo.

I don't want to blame LeBron because he has done a lot for the Cavs, but he bears some of the responsibility of where the Cavs are roster wise, especially with some of the contracts involved with Rich Paul. Even before LeBron came back, we had to move assets(to Boston lol), so we could offer him the max. Imagine if he took a small paycut like he did for Miami in year 1, Cavs could have been better off for it asset wise long term.
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Technically Tristan actually showed up for the first 2 finals before this year.
Love just showed up this year (yes I know he was hurt year one, but availability matters..)

Love was bad until this year in the finals. In fact Love was technically worse last year against GS (a worse team) than Tristan was this year.
The injuries, the bad previous finals, the solid but poor shooting in this year's finals have hurt Love's stock.

Thats what LeBron should get blame for.

He didn't let Griffin operate to keep the Miami pick or get back another asset. LeBron just assumed Love is a top 10 player so it doesn't matter the cost make the deal. So instead of getting Love and having other assets we just got Love.
 
TyGuy said:
Kevin Love was +17 in game 7 of the nba finals in which we won by 4 points.
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That measurement means nothing with respect to his individual contribution.

TyGuy said:
Andrew Wiggins up to this point has been shitty.
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Which is irrelevant to the point I made.

TyGuy said:
There is no guarantee we win it at all with Andrew Wiggins. We won that series by a cunts hair.
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Kevin Love barely played in 2015-16, and didn't play in 2014-15. I think we win both of those series in 6 with Wiggins filling in for an absent player.

This isn't a measure of Love vs Wiggins, but Wiggins versus a cardboard cutout....
 
Gus Zing said:
I'm not a huge Dan fan, but lets not go that far..
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Can you name what separates them? Both owners are meddlers. Both owners are passionate, but can't even help themselves from sticking their nose in the affairs of the team.

Both owners fire front office and coaches, pretty regularly. Both owners have no stability whatsoever in their organization. Hmmm, they sound pretty similar to me.

Oh, yeah, one gigantic difference. One owner was blessed with maybe the greatest player ever, the other wasn't.
 
gourimoko said:
Go back and re-read my post, also don't discuss this here... this isn't S34 and that's against the rules.
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Max posted that in the general public thread.
 
gourimoko said:
I agree with you, and I was on the fence about the Love trade...

With that said, in hindsight (which.. isn't how you evaluate a trade), Love was totally unnecessary in our winning the 1 championship we have over the past 3 years. One might argue we win in 2014-15 with Wiggins rather than Kevin Love (who did not play).

So, to be fair... the Love trade didn't result in the Cavs winning the championship.. LeBron and Kyrie were the biggest components to that title run.

And if we had Wiggins now, we could've flipped him for Jimmy Butler, making the Cavs overall a better team.

In hindsight, the "win now / mortgage your future" approach did not work. And while Love getting injured, etc, shouldn't be weighed in hindsight against such a trade -- the overall outcome does speak to the idea that we should always be "All In" with LeBron.

If were the GM and I could go back in time and inform myself of the future, I wouldn't make the Kevin Love / Andrew Wiggins trade. It made sense at the time, with the information we had, surely; but again, it didn't work out as planned.
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I mean Kyrie was hurt in 2015 as well, and Love still played a big role in our win, especially in game 7.

Wiggins has been in the league 4 years now and I don't see how he would of helped us, it's easy to say if we had Wiggins instead of Love we win in 2015.We could easily say if Love and Kyrie are healthy for that series we win though too.
 
@TyGuy

This was in the public thread:

"Look, Dan Gilbert has been the de facto GM for the last few seasons. If CG had his way we would have had Jonas instead of TT, Gasol instead of Bynum, no Jarret Jack, no Luol Deng, the Bennett pick would've been traded...I could go on. And it wasn't just the bad decisions that were forced on mgmt that were so painful. It was then having to waste VERY valuable assets to undo Gilbert's mistakes that was the double whammy.

If Dan really wants to clean house, then he should do what all successful organizations do - let the basketball people make the basketball decisions!! Meddling owners have gotten us where we are today. Dan is an outstanding owner when it comes to some things, when it comes to player personnel decisions, Dan, Tan and Bald are just awful and should keep their hands off."
 
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