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Racial Tension in the U.S.

Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Where should the thread go from here?

  • Racial Tension in the U.S.

    Votes: 16 51.6%
  • Extremist Views on the U.S.

    Votes: 2 6.5%
  • Mending Years of Racial Stereotypes.

    Votes: 2 6.5%
  • Protest Culture.

    Votes: 1 3.2%
  • Racist Idiots in the News.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Other

    Votes: 10 32.3%

  • Total voters
    31
Seemed to me that a lot of the questions were not race-based. I too have been called a faggot even though I am not gay (I'm willing to bet most people here have if they are older than twenty), and I answered yes to that particular question as a result.

ETA: Should probably mention that I don't think it's okay to call anyone a faggot regardless of their orientation.
I honestly though nothing of it when I was in middle and high school. It was just another insult people used. My freshman year of college this girl in one of my classes called it the "f word" and wouldn't say it. I was so confused.
 
I honestly though nothing of it when I was in middle and high school. It was just another insult people used. My freshman year of college this girl in one of my classes called it the "f word" and wouldn't say it. I was so confused.

I'd say that's the case for most of us, but I can't really imagine how hard it was growing up gay when I was a kid. It's relatively accepted now, but man when I was in school it must have been awful.
 
Is that shocking to you? I for one am not shocked that myself, as a white, straight male, have had a more privileged upbringing than most. That seems like common fucking sense to me.

Jack, my point is that some people have been throufh heinous shit and all this is concerned with is my race and is a sufficiently flawed way to consider privilege. You read that right? Really long post that i put a lot of effort into and was pretty candid with.
 
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I'd say that's the case for most of us, but I can't really imagine how hard it was growing up gay when I was a kid. It's relatively accepted now, but man when I was in school it must have been awful.
Yeah, I've only been out of high school for a few years and it's still wild how much has changed. There was a gay kid a grade below me and I guess he got a lot of shit for it. We've come a long way, but there's still a ways to go.
 
The ACLU has stated they will no longer defend groups that protest with firearms.

Ethically to me it's the right choice (big surprise given that I think we should do away with the 2nd Amendment or severely limit its reach).

Legally/constitutionally it seems a little inconsistent though. We have 1st and 2nd Amendment rights. As long as no one is using the firearms in the protest, is there a legal/constitutional distinction to be made here for the ACLU? I agree with the decision from a moral standpoint but I'm not sure I'm totally on board with the decision if they are to continue being an organization that defends everyone's rights.

While I understand what you're saying, the thing I keep coming back to is this: can one peacefully protest with a firearm? Seems like an oxymoron to me.

Certainly find it hard to believe someone spouting off or marching for hateful rhetoric, while dressed as a militia man or carrying a gun, can be considered peaceful.
 
Jack, my point is that some people have been throufh heinous shit and all this is concerned with is my race and is a sufficiently flawed way to consider privilege. You read that right? Really long post that i put a lot of effort into and was pretty candid with.

No doubt some people have been through some heinous shit, but if you expected that to be validated from some 50 question internet test, you weren't being realistic to begin with.

Regardless, it's a hell of a lot easier to be a straight white male in our society than it is to be anything else. That much should be obvious.
 
If the protestors had these massive machine guns and no one got shot I'd say that shows they have pretty good restraint...


http://amp.slate.com/articles/news_...ft_was_actually_doing_in_charlottesville.html

Check out these 1st hand accounts of the bad guys


the “Alt-Left”?
What the counter-protesters Trump despises were actually doing in Charlottesville last weekend.
By Dahlia LithwickAug. 16 2017 12:55 PM
On Tuesday, after a weekend that included a white supremacist mowing down and killing a peaceful counter-protester in Charlottesville and Nazis marching on the University of Virginia with torches, the president of the United States stood in front of the American people and said, “What about the ‘alt-left’ that came charging at, as you say, the ‘alt-right’? Let me ask you this: What about the fact they came charging—that they came charging with clubs in their hands, swinging clubs? Do they have any problem? I think they do.”

There were, as it turns out, a great number of Charlottesville locals present to witness the violence and lawlessness on display in this town—my town—last weekend. I asked local witnesses, many in the faith community, every one of whom was on the streets of Charlottesville on Saturday, whether there was a violent, club-wielding mob threatening the good people on team Nazi. Here’s what I heard back:

Advertisement

Brandy DanielsPostdoctoral fellow at the Luce Project on Religion and Its Publics at UVA

It was basically impossible to miss the antifa for the group of us who were on the steps of Emancipation Park in an effort to block the Nazis and alt-righters from entering. Soon after we got to the steps and linked arms, a group of white supremacists—I’m guessing somewhere between 20-45 of them—came up with their shields and batons and bats and shoved through us. We tried not to break the line, but they got through some of us—it was terrifying, to say the least—shoving forcefully with their shields and knocking a few folks over. We strengthened our resolve and committed to not break the line again. Some of the anarchists and anti-fascist folks came up to us and asked why we let them through and asked what they could do to help. Rev. Osagyefo Sekou talked with them for a bit, explaining what we were doing and our stance and asking them to not provoke the Nazis. They agreed quickly and stood right in front of us, offering their help and protection.


Less than 10 minutes later, a muchlarger group of the Nazi alt-righters come barreling up. My memory is again murky on the details. (I was frankly focused on not bolting from the scene and/or not soiling myself—I know hyperbole is common in recounting stories like these, but I was legitimately very worried for my well-being and safety, so I was trying to remember the training I had acquired as well as, for resolve, to remember why I was standing there.) But it had to have been at least 100 of them this go around. I recall feeling like I was going to pass out and was thankful that I was locked arms with folks so that I wouldn’t fall to the ground before getting beaten. I knew that the five anarchists and antifa in front of us and the 20 or so of us were no match for the 100-plus of them, but at this point I wasn’t letting go.

At that point, more of the anarchists and antifa milling nearby saw the huge mob of the Nazis approach and stepped in. They were about 200-300 feet away from us and stepped between us (the clergy and faith leaders) and the Nazis. This enraged the Nazis, who indeed quickly responded violently. At this point, Sekou made a call that it was unsafe—it had gotten very violent very fast—and told us to disperse quickly.

While one obviously can’t objectively say what a kind of alternate reality or “sliding doors”–type situation would have been, one can hypothesize or theorize. Based on what was happening all around, the looks on their faces, the sheer number of them, and the weapons they were wielding, my hypothesis or theory is that had the antifa not stepped in, those of us standing on the steps would definitely have been injured, very likely gravely so. On Democracy Now, Cornel West, who was also in the line with us, said that he felt that the antifa saved his life. I didn’t roll my eyes at that statement or see it as an exaggeration—I saw it as a very reasonable hypothesis based on the facts we had.

Advertisement

Rabbi Rachel SchmelkinCongregation Beth Israel

There was a group of antifa defending First United Methodist Church right outside in their parking lot, and at one point the white supremacists came by and antifa chased them off with sticks.

Rebekah MenningCharlottesville resident

I stood with a group of interfaith clergy and other people of faith in a nonviolent direct action meant to keep the white nationalists from entering the park to their hate rally. We had far fewer people holding the line than we had hoped for, and frankly, it wasn’t enough. No police officers in sight (that I could see from where I stood), and we were prepared to be beaten to a bloody pulp to show that while the state permitted white nationalists to rally in hate, in the many names of God, we did not. But we didn’t have to because the anarchists and anti-fascists got to them before they could get to us. I’ve never felt more grateful and more ashamed at the same time. The antifa were like angels to me in that moment.

Advertisement

Mary EsselmanWriter

My 13-year-old son and I stood by ourselves on the corner down the street from the synagogue, in front of the Catholic Church, trying to walk back home but interrupted by a stream of white extremist marchers, with their signs and firearms and crazy regalia. I felt like an idiot but tried to look each in the eye and said, “Peace,” and “Peace be with you,” with as much sincerity as I had in me, trying to reach some humanity in them, and they jeered and mocked me, called me what you might imagine, told my son, Luke, that his mom was a this and a that. And now I learn that my son and labradoodle and I, and our little “peace be with you”s are apparently “alt-left.”

Our path home was blocked by them, and we had no choice but to face them. Just us alone on that street corner, and all of them menacing, streaming past us on their way to the rally. Later, when we were a block away from where everyone was clashing and considering going to the front steps of the public library, there was a big line of white supremacists, the leader wearing some kind of yellow spiked helmet, and as they tromped toward the rally, these lovely older women standing beside us wearing sky blue T-shirts that said “Quaker” kind of trotted alongside them gently, holding signs that said “Love.” Alt-left for sure. I was armed with my iPhone and my dog’s leash. Luke was armed with his acne and hormones.

Rev. Seth WispelweyDirecting minister of Restoration Village Arts and consulting organizer for Congregate C'ville

Advertisement

I am a pastor in Charlottesville, and antifa saved my life twice on Saturday. Indeed, they saved many lives from psychological and physical violence—I believe the body count could have been much worse, as hard as that is to believe. Thankfully, we had robust community defense standing up to white supremacist violence this past weekend. Incredibly brave students held space at the University of Virginia and stared down a torch-lit mob that vastly outnumbered them on Friday night. On Saturday, battalions of anti-fascist protesters came together on my city’s streets to thwart the tide of men carrying weapons, shields, and Trump flags and sporting MAGA hats and Hitler salutes and waving Nazi flags and the pro-slavery “stars and bars.”

Out of my faith calling, I feel led to pursue disciplined, nonviolent direct action and witness. I helped lead a group of clergy who were trained and committed to the same work: to hold space on the frontline of the park where the rally was to be held. And then some of us tried to take the steps to one of the entrances. God is not OK with white supremacy, and God is on the side of all those it tries to dehumanize. We feel a responsibility to visibly, bodily show our solidarity with the oppressed and marginalized.

A phalanx of neo-Nazis shoved right through our human wall with 3-foot-wide wooden shields, screaming and spitting homophobic slurs and obscenities at us. It was then that antifa stepped in to thwart them. They have their tools to achieve their purposes, and they are not ones I will personally use, but let me stress that our purposes were the same: block this violent tide and do not let it take the pedestal.

The white supremacists did not blink at violently plowing right through clergy, all of us dressed in full clerical garb. White supremacy is violence. I didn’t see any racial justice protesters with weapons; as for antifa, anything they brought I would only categorize as community defense tools and nothing more. Pretty much everyone I talk to agrees—including most clergy. My strong stance is that the weapon is and was white supremacy, and the white supremacists intentionally brought weapons to instigate violence.
 
No doubt some people have been through some heinous shit, but if you expected that to be validated from some 50 question internet test, you weren't being realistic to begin with.

Regardless, it's a hell of a lot easier to be a straight white male in our society than it is to be anything else. That much should be obvious.
No. The test is an extension from the concept of white privilege and they are both just as flawed as each other. I'm illustrating why. The test can only be as thorough as the parochial concept it aims to animate.

Look at everything I just posted. Are you telling me i would rather have gone through all of that than be black? Honestly, read that and think about it. Youd rather be molested than black?
 
Look at everything I just posted. Are you telling me i would rather have gone through all of that than be black? Honestly, read that and think about it.

I think you're missing the point of the test.
 
I think you're missing the point of the test.
Nope ive got it exactly. To show that minorities have certain difficult situations they have to deal with. Most of them are potentially applicable to white people.

Can you tell me what the point of my post is?

I'll ask again. would you rather be molested than black?
 
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The ACLU has stated they will no longer defend groups that protest with firearms.

Ethically to me it's the right choice (big surprise given that I think we should do away with the 2nd Amendment or severely limit its reach).

Legally/constitutionally it seems a little inconsistent though. We have 1st and 2nd Amendment rights. As long as no one is using the firearms in the protest, is there a legal/constitutional distinction to be made here for the ACLU? I agree with the decision from a moral standpoint but I'm not sure I'm totally on board with the decision if they are to continue being an organization that defends everyone's rights.

Not just any groups, specifically hate groups w/ firearms.

I understand why they considered it, I think their decision is poor.

It's hard to say you want to defend all liberties and rights afforded by the Constitution and then start filtering out which liberties and rights and to which groups.

"Those guys can use their 1st and 2nd at the same time. Those other guys over there can only use their 1st and have their support, not their 2nd."

I was hot when I first read what your post that it was all groups using their 2nd amendment rights, I felt that'd basically have made them a partisan group and compromised their entire purpose. After reading more I see it's just hate groups and I didn't feel as bad then as I did a few minutes before. Then I thought on that, and I felt bad again, because like you, I feel that's really not a fair position to take if they mean their stated mission.

There's no reason a concealed firearm makes someone's unpopular speech less protected.

I understand why they want to do this, I just think it's wrong. It's one of those things you have to suck up and take in the gut because of what you are supposed to represent.
 
When will the thread title be changed?

It is either incomplete, or the the BLM reference should be deleted.

Surely, even the BLM opponents here can see that now.
 
http://amp.slate.com/articles/news_...ft_was_actually_doing_in_charlottesville.html

Check out these 1st hand accounts of the bad guys


the “Alt-Left”?
What the counter-protesters Trump despises were actually doing in Charlottesville last weekend.
By Dahlia LithwickAug. 16 2017 12:55 PM
On Tuesday, after a weekend that included a white supremacist mowing down and killing a peaceful counter-protester in Charlottesville and Nazis marching on the University of Virginia with torches, the president of the United States stood in front of the American people and said, “What about the ‘alt-left’ that came charging at, as you say, the ‘alt-right’? Let me ask you this: What about the fact they came charging—that they came charging with clubs in their hands, swinging clubs? Do they have any problem? I think they do.”

There were, as it turns out, a great number of Charlottesville locals present to witness the violence and lawlessness on display in this town—my town—last weekend. I asked local witnesses, many in the faith community, every one of whom was on the streets of Charlottesville on Saturday, whether there was a violent, club-wielding mob threatening the good people on team Nazi. Here’s what I heard back:

Advertisement

Brandy DanielsPostdoctoral fellow at the Luce Project on Religion and Its Publics at UVA

It was basically impossible to miss the antifa for the group of us who were on the steps of Emancipation Park in an effort to block the Nazis and alt-righters from entering. Soon after we got to the steps and linked arms, a group of white supremacists—I’m guessing somewhere between 20-45 of them—came up with their shields and batons and bats and shoved through us. We tried not to break the line, but they got through some of us—it was terrifying, to say the least—shoving forcefully with their shields and knocking a few folks over. We strengthened our resolve and committed to not break the line again. Some of the anarchists and anti-fascist folks came up to us and asked why we let them through and asked what they could do to help. Rev. Osagyefo Sekou talked with them for a bit, explaining what we were doing and our stance and asking them to not provoke the Nazis. They agreed quickly and stood right in front of us, offering their help and protection.


Less than 10 minutes later, a muchlarger group of the Nazi alt-righters come barreling up. My memory is again murky on the details. (I was frankly focused on not bolting from the scene and/or not soiling myself—I know hyperbole is common in recounting stories like these, but I was legitimately very worried for my well-being and safety, so I was trying to remember the training I had acquired as well as, for resolve, to remember why I was standing there.) But it had to have been at least 100 of them this go around. I recall feeling like I was going to pass out and was thankful that I was locked arms with folks so that I wouldn’t fall to the ground before getting beaten. I knew that the five anarchists and antifa in front of us and the 20 or so of us were no match for the 100-plus of them, but at this point I wasn’t letting go.

At that point, more of the anarchists and antifa milling nearby saw the huge mob of the Nazis approach and stepped in. They were about 200-300 feet away from us and stepped between us (the clergy and faith leaders) and the Nazis. This enraged the Nazis, who indeed quickly responded violently. At this point, Sekou made a call that it was unsafe—it had gotten very violent very fast—and told us to disperse quickly.

While one obviously can’t objectively say what a kind of alternate reality or “sliding doors”–type situation would have been, one can hypothesize or theorize. Based on what was happening all around, the looks on their faces, the sheer number of them, and the weapons they were wielding, my hypothesis or theory is that had the antifa not stepped in, those of us standing on the steps would definitely have been injured, very likely gravely so. On Democracy Now, Cornel West, who was also in the line with us, said that he felt that the antifa saved his life. I didn’t roll my eyes at that statement or see it as an exaggeration—I saw it as a very reasonable hypothesis based on the facts we had.

Advertisement

Rabbi Rachel SchmelkinCongregation Beth Israel

There was a group of antifa defending First United Methodist Church right outside in their parking lot, and at one point the white supremacists came by and antifa chased them off with sticks.

Rebekah MenningCharlottesville resident

I stood with a group of interfaith clergy and other people of faith in a nonviolent direct action meant to keep the white nationalists from entering the park to their hate rally. We had far fewer people holding the line than we had hoped for, and frankly, it wasn’t enough. No police officers in sight (that I could see from where I stood), and we were prepared to be beaten to a bloody pulp to show that while the state permitted white nationalists to rally in hate, in the many names of God, we did not. But we didn’t have to because the anarchists and anti-fascists got to them before they could get to us. I’ve never felt more grateful and more ashamed at the same time. The antifa were like angels to me in that moment.

Advertisement

Mary EsselmanWriter

My 13-year-old son and I stood by ourselves on the corner down the street from the synagogue, in front of the Catholic Church, trying to walk back home but interrupted by a stream of white extremist marchers, with their signs and firearms and crazy regalia. I felt like an idiot but tried to look each in the eye and said, “Peace,” and “Peace be with you,” with as much sincerity as I had in me, trying to reach some humanity in them, and they jeered and mocked me, called me what you might imagine, told my son, Luke, that his mom was a this and a that. And now I learn that my son and labradoodle and I, and our little “peace be with you”s are apparently “alt-left.”

Our path home was blocked by them, and we had no choice but to face them. Just us alone on that street corner, and all of them menacing, streaming past us on their way to the rally. Later, when we were a block away from where everyone was clashing and considering going to the front steps of the public library, there was a big line of white supremacists, the leader wearing some kind of yellow spiked helmet, and as they tromped toward the rally, these lovely older women standing beside us wearing sky blue T-shirts that said “Quaker” kind of trotted alongside them gently, holding signs that said “Love.” Alt-left for sure. I was armed with my iPhone and my dog’s leash. Luke was armed with his acne and hormones.

Rev. Seth WispelweyDirecting minister of Restoration Village Arts and consulting organizer for Congregate C'ville

Advertisement

I am a pastor in Charlottesville, and antifa saved my life twice on Saturday. Indeed, they saved many lives from psychological and physical violence—I believe the body count could have been much worse, as hard as that is to believe. Thankfully, we had robust community defense standing up to white supremacist violence this past weekend. Incredibly brave students held space at the University of Virginia and stared down a torch-lit mob that vastly outnumbered them on Friday night. On Saturday, battalions of anti-fascist protesters came together on my city’s streets to thwart the tide of men carrying weapons, shields, and Trump flags and sporting MAGA hats and Hitler salutes and waving Nazi flags and the pro-slavery “stars and bars.”

Out of my faith calling, I feel led to pursue disciplined, nonviolent direct action and witness. I helped lead a group of clergy who were trained and committed to the same work: to hold space on the frontline of the park where the rally was to be held. And then some of us tried to take the steps to one of the entrances. God is not OK with white supremacy, and God is on the side of all those it tries to dehumanize. We feel a responsibility to visibly, bodily show our solidarity with the oppressed and marginalized.

A phalanx of neo-Nazis shoved right through our human wall with 3-foot-wide wooden shields, screaming and spitting homophobic slurs and obscenities at us. It was then that antifa stepped in to thwart them. They have their tools to achieve their purposes, and they are not ones I will personally use, but let me stress that our purposes were the same: block this violent tide and do not let it take the pedestal.

The white supremacists did not blink at violently plowing right through clergy, all of us dressed in full clerical garb. White supremacy is violence. I didn’t see any racial justice protesters with weapons; as for antifa, anything they brought I would only categorize as community defense tools and nothing more. Pretty much everyone I talk to agrees—including most clergy. My strong stance is that the weapon is and was white supremacy, and the white supremacists intentionally brought weapons to instigate violence.

Nope, they were just there to assault very fine white people.
 

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