The Trump Administration (just Trump) Thread

Nathan S said:

Ok...something about our society makes people of certain races more likely to pursue these jobs, and people of certain other races less likely to pursue these jobs. The word I would use to describe this state of affairs is discrimination.

Our society (meaning everything external that influences a person's decisions from the moment they're born) discriminates along racial lines, at least when it comes to making punters and software engineers.



We have different values in our society than they do in theirs. Those societal values influences peoples choices. Easy.

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Why are you so hung up on this "why don't black people want cushy tech jobs" thing?

MediumBaller said:

Why are you so hung up on this "why don't black people want cushy tech jobs" thing?

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It seems like people think they're too stupid to want good jobs ? I don't understand this sort of position and It's a little unsettling

David. said:

It seems like people think they're too stupid to want good jobs ? I don't understand this sort of position and It's a little unsettling

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Indeed, it is unsettling. If black people are growing up thinking they're too stupid for tech jobs (and other high-paying jobs outside of sports), why is that?

It's either that black people are intrinsically worse (an obviously racist position that, thankfully, no one is taking), or that somewhere along the course of life our society makes black people think they're worse (or otherwise makes them think they shouldn't pursue those jobs).

Nathan S said:

Ok...something about our society makes people of certain races more likely to pursue these jobs, and people of certain other races less likely to pursue these jobs. The word I would use to describe this state of affairs is discrimination.

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Nathan S said:

I'm saying, for whatever reason, black kids don't grow up wanting to be punters (and to a lesser extent, perhaps white kids don't grow up wanting to be running backs).

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So our white majority society discriminates against white kids who want to become running backs. Interesting.

We have different values in our society than they do in theirs. Those societal values influences peoples choices. Easy.

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Well, given that "correcting" those values would seem to be high on the priority list, your point begs two questions:

1) What specific values do "they" have that lead "them" not to aim for those career paths, and;

2) what is the source of those values, and (obviously interrelated) why do they perpetuate?

Wrathe said:

Do you think Black people are showing up at the job interview equally skilled for the job and getting shot down, or do you feel it's falling apart somewhere else in the chain? Are they showing up skilled? In IT, the rule is typically we don't give a shit what you are or look like, can you fix our broke shit? So I'm interested where you are perceiving failure.

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Somewhere else in the chain, at least for the most part.

@Nathan S

Why do you think there aren’t many white NFL RB’s?

The Human Q-Tip said:

So our white majority society discriminates against white kids who want to become running backs. Interesting.

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Sure, just like black communities discriminate, in many cases, against black people who want to become software engineers.

The Human Q-Tip said:

Well, given that "correcting$ those values would seem to be high on the priority list, your point begs two questions:

1) What specific values are you talking about, and;

2) what is the source of those values, and why do they perpetuate?

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1) is a hard question to answer, mainly because it's hard to distill our society/culture down to a list of values. Societal stereotypes (punters are white, running backs are black) play a part, but that's probably only part of the story.

2) Ultimately the source of these values lies in the past, and in the past, of course, discrimination was the law. Kids are impressionable...when they learn about famous scientists, and all the famous scientists are white, they learn that white people are scientists and black people are not. There are also values passed down within black communities that discourage young black people from pursuing historically white professions, but I don't think I'm knowledgeable enough to talk in detail about that.

The Oi said:

@Nathan S

Why do you think there aren’t many white NFL RB’s?

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See above (and in general, sorry to all the people I'm not responding to directly; not meaning to ignore your points, just have limited time and I hope my responses to Q are mostly answering your questions too).

Nathan S said:

Indeed, it is unsettling. If black people are growing up thinking they're too stupid for tech jobs (and other high-paying jobs outside of sports), why is that?

It's either that black people are intrinsically worse (an obviously racist position that, thankfully, no one is taking), or that somewhere along the course of life our society makes black people think they're worse (or otherwise makes them think they shouldn't pursue those jobs).

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Are there fewer white NBA players than black NBA players because white people are intrinsically worse?

Nathan S said:

It's either that black people are intrinsically worse (an obviously racist position that, thankfully, no one is taking), or that somewhere along the course of life our society makes black people think they're worse (or otherwise makes them think they shouldn't pursue those jobs).

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Well that's an interesting idea....

Do you suppose a stigma among some blacks against "acting white" could affect the motivation of black kids to pursue some of those jobs? And if so...whose is responsible for that?

Also...suppose (hypothetically of course) that you bombarded kids with a mantra that white people are racist, that life is unfairly stacked against them, and that they can't really get anywhere without first defeating that oppression? And that if they do manage personal success without joining the struggle, they've "sold out."

Do you think any of that could affect their mindset, and desire to work hard for a good career?

And if so...whose fault is that?

MediumBaller said:

Are there fewer white NBA players than black NBA players because white people are intrinsically worse?

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Nope, and this is actually another interesting thing. Likely, white kids may think they're unlikely to be good enough to play competitive basketball. There are probably fewer pickup games happening, on average, in white neighborhoods than in black neighborhoods. White kids may feel intimidated watching a group of black kids play ball and wondering if they should ask to join.

It's pretty clearly nothing genetic in this case either because, per capita, some European countries produce loads of basketball talent.

Nathan S said:

2) Ultimately the source of these values lies in the past, and in the past, of course, discrimination was the law.

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If you cannot identify the values that are holding them back, then how do you know they are because of past discrimination? That seems to be the logical leap behind most of your arguments, and I don't believe it is correct with respect to values. Not any longer.

Nathan S said:

Nope, and this is actually another interesting thing. Likely, white kids may think they're unlikely to be good enough to play competitive basketball. There are probably fewer pickup games happening, on average, in white neighborhoods than in black neighborhoods. White kids may feel intimidated watching a group of black kids play ball and wondering if they should ask to join.

It's pretty clearly nothing genetic in this case either because, per capita, some European countries produce loads of basketball talent.

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...... Okay

The Human Q-Tip said:

Well that's an interesting idea....

Do you suppose a stigma among some blacks against "acting white" could affect the motivation of black kids to pursue some of those jobs? And if so...whose fault is that?

Also...suppose (hypothetically of course) that you bombarded kids with a mantra that white people are racist, that life is unfairly stacked against them, and that they can't really get anywhere without first defeating that oppression? And that if they do manage personal success without joining the struggle, they've "sold out."

Do you think any of that could affect their mindset, and desire to work hard for a good career?

And if so...whose fault is that?

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You can say black communities are (at least partly) at fault. But why do black communities have those values, that apparent distaste for all things "white"? It's because historically, white power structures really did actively oppress black communities, and, not surprisingly, black communities haven't forgotten those injustices.

You don't have to teach POC kids that life isn't fair, and that discrimination exists. They learn that on their own before they can even pronounce the word "discrimination."

Nathan S said:

Nope, and this is actually another interesting thing. Likely, white kids may think they're unlikely to be good enough to play competitive basketball. There are probably fewer pickup games happening, on average, in white neighborhoods than in black neighborhoods. White kids may feel intimidated watching a group of black kids play ball and wondering if they should ask to join.

It's pretty clearly nothing genetic in this case either because, per capita, some European countries produce loads of basketball talent.

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Well wait, they get over here and normally dont compete. And that's the best they have over there.

Intimidated by what? You think white people are scared of basketball playing black guys?

A lot of these arguments seem to be predicated on racial stereotypes which is kind of ironic

Nathan S said:

Nope, and this is actually another interesting thing. Likely, white kids may think they're unlikely to be good enough to play competitive basketball. There are probably fewer pickup games happening, on average, in white neighborhoods than in black neighborhoods. White kids may feel intimidated watching a group of black kids play ball and wondering if they should ask to join.

It's pretty clearly nothing genetic in this case either because, per capita, some European countries produce loads of basketball talent.

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It's an economic thing. Lots of basketball courts in urban areas. The only cost is the basketball... Thus poor black kids tend to gravitate to basketball vs other sports that require a larger financial investment.

More black kids playing basketball all day means more are likely to achieve success.

Not really a coincidence that a group of people who dedicate more effort to a task tend to be more successful than those who put in less effort.