So long, Kay Felder

czvo said:

Honestly? I never expected Tristan to become the perfect small ball center, or for Delly to be, well, anything, and both of those things happened.

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Tristan Thompson was the 4th pick in the draft.

I'd certainly hope he would develop into someone with actual NBA value....

He's a small ball center because he never developed the offensive game to suit the NBA requirements of a power forward and he's undersized as a traditional center.

That's a failed development project, more than anything.

thedarkness2332 said:

Tristan Thompson was the 4th pick in the draft.

I'd certainly hope he would develop into someone with actual NBA value....

He's a small ball center because he never developed the offensive game to suit the NBA requirements of a power forward and he's undersized as a traditional center.

That's a failed development project, more than anything.

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Seems to me there's a need to never give the Cavs credit for anything positive, but it really doesn't matter.

thedarkness2332 said:

Tristan Thompson was the 4th pick in the draft.

I'd certainly hope he would develop into someone with actual NBA value....

He's a small ball center because he never developed the offensive game to suit the NBA requirements of a power forward and he's undersized as a traditional center.

That's a failed development project, more than anything.

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TT isn’t a small ball center. The idea of a small ball center is a big who can act as an additional offensive playmaker. Whether that’s stretching the floor like love or putting the ball on the ground and making a play like draymond. TT does none of those things except being able to switch on defense. He’s not a small ball 5 he’s just simply a small 5.

FrontPageNews said:

TT isn’t a small ball center. The idea of a small ball center is a big who can act as an additional offensive playmaker. Whether that’s stretching the floor like love or putting the ball on the ground and making a play like draymond. TT does none of those things accept being able to switch on defense. He’s not a small ball 5 he’s just simply a small 5.

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A small ball center isn't a player that has to be an offensive playmaker. He's a small ball center for his defensive value. He can guard bigs and smalls. That's what makes him a small ball center. (I.e. when the opposing team goes small, he can stay on the floor and guard)

czvo said:

A small ball center isn't a player that has to be an offensive playmaker. He's a small ball center for his defensive value. He can guard bigs and smalls. That's what makes him a small ball center. (I.e. when the opposing team goes small, he can stay on the floor and guard)

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That one aspect of it. But having no offensive game and not hitting FTs makes him no different than Drummond or DeAndre and they aren’t small ball 5s.

czvo said:

Seems to me there's a need to never give the Cavs credit for anything positive, but it really doesn't matter.

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I've just now joined in on this conversation.

I'm pointing out some flawed logic in one of your two examples.

Sure, it is unfair to criticize all the failed development projects by the Cavaliers without pointing out the successes. I just think you'd be better served not including Thompson as a success.

That athleticism from a young big is what made Thompson get drafted at #4. He had a raw offensive game, but hustled on the glass out of college.

Today, entering his 7th NBA season, he is the exact same player that came out of Texas. Raw offensive game, hits the glass.

No development of an offensive game to speak of. None. Zilch.

Sure, some people aren't born to develop a jump shot. To this day, I don't think he knows if he's left or right handed for basketball purposes. And that's not a compliment.

But even without a jump shot, he has had minimal development of a post game.

So no, Tristan Thompson has not developed. We knew his floor coming out of college with hopes they could reach some ceiling.

I think it's safe to say at this point that he stayed at his floor and didn't go an ounce above it.

FrontPageNews said:

That one aspect of it. But having no offensive game and not hitting FTs makes him no different than Drummond or DeAndre and they aren’t small ball 5s.

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You could make the argument that they are. The whole point of a team going small is to run opposing players off the court because they no longer have a counterpart to guard. For example, the 2015 finals when the Warriors went small and Timo was screwed.

The same can't be said for Tristan as he's able to stay on the floor and defend, plus his rebounding ability becomes magnified in a game with shorter players.

thedarkness2332 said:

I've just now joined in on this conversation.

I'm pointing out some flawed logic in one of your two examples.

Sure, it is unfair to criticize all the failed development projects by the Cavaliers without pointing out the successes. I just think you'd be better served not including Thompson as a success.

That athleticism from a young big is what made Thompson get drafted at #4. He had a raw offensive game, but hustled on the glass out of college.

Today, entering his 7th NBA season, he is the exact same player that came out of Texas. Raw offensive game, hits the glass.

No development of an offensive game to speak of. None. Zilch.

Sure, some people aren't born to develop a jump shot. To this day, I don't think he knows if he's left or right handed for basketball purposes. And that's not a compliment.

But even without a jump shot, he has had minimal development of a post game.

So no, Tristan Thompson has not developed. We knew his floor coming out of college with hopes they could reach some ceiling.

I think it's safe to say at this point that he stayed at his floor and didn't go an ounce above it.

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So many people want to just look at the easy stuff that they ignore the crucial details.

czvo said:

So many people want to just look at the easy stuff that they ignore the crucial details.

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I agree. I thing you should stop ignoring the crucial details.

thedarkness2332 said:

I agree. I thing you should stop ignoring the crucial details.

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All I'm saying is focusing on a lack of a jumper, or a non-existent post game (which is something I doubt the team has put much effort in to since it's basically dead in today's NBA), ignores the elite screen setting and offensive rebounding. It ignores the substantial progress he's made defensively, having to guard damn near every position on almost every possession. And it ignores the dramatic improvement in his ability to make the secondary pass out of the PnR. He still has room to improve there, but that's an aspect of his game that simply didn't exist when he was drafted.

Now, we can talk about how he had the physical tools, but I will always push back on the idea that just because a player has physical gifts it means he'll develop into a basketball player (I also don't think you could even categorize him as an "elite" athlete, relative to other NBA players). Think about how many big men came into the league with similar athletic profiles to Tristan. So many of those guys fail. Every single year we see super raw bigs get drafted because teams hope they can turn into actual players. Think about how many of those guys fail. Tristan not only hasn't failed, he's been wildly successful and a star in his role.

So no, I don't think it's in any way safe to say he didn't go an ounce above his floor. I've enjoyed this argument though, and I fully understand the frustrations and criticisms of TT.

Completely disagree about TT. There are plenty of 6-9 athletic bigs drafted in the first round every single year and Teistan has developed very nicely as a rebounder, defender, screener and roll man.

With his lack of skill, TT absolutely had a floor much below a 15 million dollar a year player who plays well earned crucial playoff minutes up to and including the NBA finals.

He's also greatly improved his touch around the rim, his weird little floating shots, his finishing in general..has a slight face up game he doesn't get to use ever but he's got a good first step and can do it without traveling.


Just because he can't shoot or create low
post offense for himself/others doesn't mean he hasn't developed...your stated floor/expectations are unrealistic. So many guys who are drafted 4-10 have so much less success in this league than Tristan... (Tristan was possibly well within that entire range)

Since this is the Kay Felder thread...

I wanted to give the kid a chance.Y'know, short guy, underdog, long shot, all that stuff. So I was all about seeing this kid beat the odds.

Until I watched him play long enough to know he isn't ever going to make it.He is too physically challenged and not talented enough to overcome those deficiencies.

Like Ben says, have a great Euro career, kid.

thedarkness2332 said:

I've just now joined in on this conversation.

I'm pointing out some flawed logic in one of your two examples.

Sure, it is unfair to criticize all the failed development projects by the Cavaliers without pointing out the successes. I just think you'd be better served not including Thompson as a success.

That athleticism from a young big is what made Thompson get drafted at #4. He had a raw offensive game, but hustled on the glass out of college.

Today, entering his 7th NBA season, he is the exact same player that came out of Texas. Raw offensive game, hits the glass.

No development of an offensive game to speak of. None. Zilch.

Sure, some people aren't born to develop a jump shot. To this day, I don't think he knows if he's left or right handed for basketball purposes. And that's not a compliment.

But even without a jump shot, he has had minimal development of a post game.

So no, Tristan Thompson has not developed. We knew his floor coming out of college with hopes they could reach some ceiling.

I think it's safe to say at this point that he stayed at his floor and didn't go an ounce above it.

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I like you, @thedarkness2332. From whence do you come?

View: https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/920035443579736064


Makes you wonder if the front office had to include cash or the 2nd round picks to get rid of Felder and RJ. RJ seems to have a couple teams interested in him.

inliner311 said:

View: https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/920035443579736064


Makes you wonder if the front office had to include cash or the 2nd round picks to get rid of Felder and RJ. RJ seems to have a couple teams interested in him.

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Yeah, that's really weird. Teams just want to fuck us up or something?