2018 NBA Draft - June 21

Sexton is a bull in a china shop that can't finish to save his life. Getting consistently bailed out by the refs on imaginary contact fouls. Sure, he can get by his man, but there are so many others like him that have failed, much more than the Trae young archetype.

It will take Sexton years to become a net postivie player, let alone a good starter. I admire his passion for the game, but he isn't great at one thing other than being an explosive athlete.(His ways of drawing fouls won't work in the NBA)

You are saying that Sexton's game is going to open up once he reaches the NBA(didn't happen for Fox or DSJ yet), but what makes you think Young's game isn't going to benefit from better spacing, screeners, cutters, passers, etc?

i'm not saying Trae is a sure fire all-star, but Sexton is by far the bigger question mark.

Jaren Jackson Jr. has 27 blocks in just 25 minutes per game over his last 5 games. That's a rate of 8.8 blocks per 40 minutes

And, again, this is a guy who just turned 18 in September...

Sir'Dom Pointer said:

Sexton is a bull in a china shop that can't finish to save his life. Getting consistently bailed out by the refs on imaginary contact fouls. Sure, he can get by his man, but there are so many others like him that have failed, much more than the Trae young archetype.

It will take Sexton years to become a net postivie player, let alone a good starter. I admire his passion for the game, but he isn't great at one thing other than being an explosive athlete.(His ways of drawing fouls won't work in the NBA)

You are saying that Sexton's game is going to open up once he reaches the NBA(didn't happen for Fox or DSJ yet), but what makes you think Young's game isn't going to benefit from better spacing, screeners, cutters, passers, etc?

i'm not saying Trae is a sure fire all-star, but Sexton is by far the bigger question mark.

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Idk if you're asking me? If you are, I was talking solely about one minor aspect of Sexton's game that will be helped in the NBA, and another aspect of his game that will be hurt.

I never said Young's game won't benefit similarly. I'm with you on Young, I'd expect you're the only one in here higher on him that me. Young too will benefit from increased spacing in regards to passing and playmaking aspects of his game. Young too will not benefit from changes of the NBA in regards to finishing inside.

Maybe you're confusing me with someone or you're asking someone else, but I love Trae Young and think he'll be great in the NBA. I think there are aspects to every players' games that will be negatively affected by the transition to the NBA, and some more than others. That's the key to evaluating draft prospects.

3 Ball...GOT IT said:

Idk if you're asking me? If you are, I was talking solely about one minor aspect of Sexton's game that will be helped in the NBA, and another aspect of his game that will be hurt.

I never said Young's game won't benefit similarly. I'm with you on Young, I'd expect you're the only one in here higher on him that me. Young too will benefit from increased spacing in regards to passing and playmaking aspects of his game. Young too will not benefit from changes of the NBA in regards to finishing inside.

Maybe you're confusing me with someone or you're asking someone else, but I love Trae Young and think he'll be great in the NBA. I think there are aspects to every players' games that will be negatively affected by the transition to the NBA, and some more than others. That's the key to evaluating draft prospects.

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I was replying to howler... dont know why it didnt quote him.

I'll give my tier-based rankings another whirl (first edition below for anyone curious):

Tier 1: Doncic

Tier 2: Ayton/Jackson/Young

Tier 3: Bamba/Porter/Bagley

Tier 4: Sexton/Carter/Bridges/Bridges/Bonga

Thought hard about whether or not to include Bonga in that fourth tier, and ultimately decided to go for it. He's arguably a superior prospect to Ntilikina, who went #8 overall last year, and Ntilikina increasingly looks like a solid investment by the Knicks.

Who would you move, and who am I missing in Tier 4? There's at least a half dozen players who could make solid cases. This is starting to look like a pretty deep draft.

Nathan S said:

If we're going Tier system...

Tier 1: Doncic

Tier 2: Bamba/Ayton

Tier 3: Bagley/Jackson/Porter

Tier 4: Young/Sexton/Bridges/Bridges/Carter

Who would you move, and who am I missing in Tier 4? I was tempted to put Musa in there to incite some controversy...sort of like with Trae Young it's hard to poke any holes in his statistical resume, but you look at his physique and wonder if he'll just get blown away at the NBA level.

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Nathan S said:

I'll give my tier-based rankings another whirl (first edition below for anyone curious):

Tier 1: Doncic

Tier 2: Ayton/Jackson/Young

Tier 3: Bamba/Porter/Bagley

Tier 4: Sexton/Carter/Bridges/Bridges/Bonga

Thought hard about whether or not to include Bonga in that fourth tier, and ultimately decided to go for it. He's arguably a superior prospect to Ntilikina, who went #8 overall last year, and Ntilikina increasingly looks like a solid investment by the Knicks.

Who would you move, and who am I missing in Tier 4? There's at least a half dozen players who could make solid cases. This is starting to look like a pretty deep draft.

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I like Bonga, but disagree he's the level of prospect as Ntilikina. Ntilikina is already an elite defender IMO. Offensively, Ntilikina is also ahead of him by a good margin as well IMO. His %'s to me are more a product of the Knicks mis-using him thus far. He's far more effective to me as a secondary ball handler, and playing more off ball. Despite shooting just 36.0% from the field so far this year, Ntilikina is shooting 48.0% off the catch with 1.22 PPP (88.9 percentile). Again, I like Bonga, but he's not on Ntilikina's level as a prospect at all to me.

A guy that to me is being extremely underrated, and I've not seen him mentioned in this thread yet is Bruce Brown Jr. I've not done any rankings or anything like that yet, simply because mine would change so often, and I don't like to rank guys until I've fully watched everyone a good amount - but Brown is a guy you should consider to be in that tier.

I caught up a ton on him today, and really really like him as a guy for the Cavs to target as well if their pick ends up in that 10-12 range. I'll post more about him possibly tomorrow. He's got a pretty high floor, can do a little bit of everything.

Nathan S said:

Jaren Jackson Jr. has 27 blocks in just 25 minutes per game over his last 5 games. That's a rate of 8.8 blocks per 40 minutes

And, again, this is a guy who just turned 18 in September...

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that game against Houston Baptist was really something else, and is a great example of how insane he is on defense.

Picks up 3 fouls early due to ticky tacky off ball shit and rides the pine most of the 1st half. Michigan gets a big, comfortable lead on the back of their talent but they have quite a few defensive lapses that keeps Izzo in a bad move.

Cut to 2nd half. Jaren is back on that court, but he picks up a 4th foul after 3 seconds of the first half (!!!) Kid has to be done, right? Nope, he just becomes a bit more conservative in his defense, protects the rim like a damn brick wall, shuts down drives on the perimeter, chases down guys in transition for blocks. Finishes with 6 blocks in 18 minutes

Like, you could tell immediately in that 2nd half that he just completely changes Michigans Defense. In all facets.

I still have him below Ayton, Bagley and to a lesser extent Bamba, due to how unpolished he is offensively, but... man, Jaren Jackson looks to me like a fucking game changer on defense.

Nathan S said:

I'll give my tier-based rankings another whirl (first edition below for anyone curious):

Tier 1: Doncic

Tier 2: Ayton/Jackson/Young

Tier 3: Bamba/Porter/Bagley

Tier 4: Sexton/Carter/Bridges/Bridges/Bonga

Thought hard about whether or not to include Bonga in that fourth tier, and ultimately decided to go for it. He's arguably a superior prospect to Ntilikina, who went #8 overall last year, and Ntilikina increasingly looks like a solid investment by the Knicks.

Who would you move, and who am I missing in Tier 4? There's at least a half dozen players who could make solid cases. This is starting to look like a pretty deep draft.

Click to expand...

Pretty insane. If before the season started somebody told me we are trending towards a Porter/Bagley and Id feel dissapointed coz we're missing out on some clear cut top guys, I wouldnt have believed it. Thats college bball for you i guess.

Can Jaren Jackson space the floor at all? I saw him hit that 3pointer, but can it be consistent? If so, mother of god, thats the perfect center for todays NBA.

Its definitely starting to look like a deep draft, i agree. But since the 2-8 spots are kind of jumbled up, could this be a draft where picking for need gets more emphasis than usual? I cant picture us picking Young for example, but Mikal Bridges for instance would mean a legit two way player against GSW. Obviously the tourny might cause more separation.

What a great pick this is, truely. Who are your favorite guys for the Cavs specifically?

3 Ball...GOT IT said:

I like Bonga, but disagree he's the level of prospect as Ntilikina. Ntilikina is already an elite defender IMO. Offensively, Ntilikina is also ahead of him by a good margin as well IMO. His %'s to me are more a product of the Knicks mis-using him thus far. He's far more effective to me as a secondary ball handler, and playing more off ball. Despite shooting just 36.0% from the field so far this year, Ntilikina is shooting 48.0% off the catch with 1.22 PPP (88.9 percentile). Again, I like Bonga, but he's not on Ntilikina's level as a prospect at all to me.

A guy that to me is being extremely underrated, and I've not seen him mentioned in this thread yet is Bruce Brown Jr. I've not done any rankings or anything like that yet, simply because mine would change so often, and I don't like to rank guys until I've fully watched everyone a good amount - but Brown is a guy you should consider to be in that tier.

I caught up a ton on him today, and really really like him as a guy for the Cavs to target as well if their pick ends up in that 10-12 range. I'll post more about him possibly tomorrow. He's got a pretty high floor, can do a little bit of everything.

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No doubt Ntilikina's a better player than Bonga right now; I'm just comparing them as prospects. Bonga's playing a similar role to what Ntilikina played last year in a similar strength league. His offensive numbers are generally a touch worse than what Ntilikina produced, and his defensive numbers a touch better.

I love Brown's defensive upside, but, of course, worry about his fit on offense. He's a good, low-mistake floor general, but good enough to run an NBA offense someday? I can't understand why he doesn't draw more fouls considering his solid handle and elite athleticism. That should be his bread and butter. He's also a year old for a sophomore.

blommen said:

that game against Houston Baptist was really something else, and is a great example of how insane he is on defense.

Picks up 3 fouls early due to ticky tacky off ball shit and rides the pine most of the 1st half. Michigan gets a big, comfortable lead on the back of their talent but they have quite a few defensive lapses that keeps Izzo in a bad move.

Cut to 2nd half. Jaren is back on that court, but he picks up a 4th foul after 3 seconds of the first half (!!!) Kid has to be done, right? Nope, he just becomes a bit more conservative in his defense, protects the rim like a damn brick wall, shuts down drives on the perimeter, chases down guys in transition for blocks. Finishes with 6 blocks in 18 minutes

Like, you could tell immediately in that 2nd half that he just completely changes Michigans Defense. In all facets.

I still have him below Ayton, Bagley and to a lesser extent Bamba, due to how unpolished he is offensively, but... man, Jaren Jackson looks to me like a fucking game changer on defense.

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Muffinalt said:

Pretty insane. If before the season started somebody told me we are trending towards a Porter/Bagley and Id feel dissapointed coz we're missing out on some clear cut top guys, I wouldnt have believed it. Thats college bball for you i guess.

Can Jaren Jackson space the floor at all? I saw him hit that 3pointer, but can it be consistent? If so, mother of god, thats the perfect center for todays NBA.

Its definitely starting to look like a deep draft, i agree. But since the 2-8 spots are kind of jumbled up, could this be a draft where picking for need gets more emphasis than usual? I cant picture us picking Young for example, but Mikal Bridges for instance would mean a legit two way player against GSW. Obviously the tourny might cause more separation.

What a great pick this is, truely. Who are your favorite guys for the Cavs specifically?

Click to expand...

It's hard to compare Jackson to Ayton and Bagley because he's so much better than them on defense and they're so much better than him on offense.

Against Bamba, he's a better prospect hands down at this point, I think. Bamba's edge over him on defense is down to a sliver, and Jackson looks better offensively in a lot of ways, in particular his ability to make occasional 3's, his ability to get to the line and make free throws, and his ability to pass at a basic level (Bamba doesn't have an assist yet this month).

I do think Jackson will ultimately be able to shoot NBA 3's. His current 12/35 from 3-point range doesn't prove anything by itself, but 47/56 from the line is very encouraging. When's the last time a big man shot 80%+ from the line in college and then failed to develop a decent set shot in the NBA? This seems like a safe bet if he keeps it up.

As for who I'd want on the Cavs, I'm gonna cop out for now on the grounds that we have no idea who will be on this roster next summer. Even if we restrict ourselves to scenarios where we keep LeBron, whether or not we re-sign IT could make all the difference.

3 Ball...GOT IT said:

I like Bonga, but disagree he's the level of prospect as Ntilikina. Ntilikina is already an elite defender IMO. Offensively, Ntilikina is also ahead of him by a good margin as well IMO. His %'s to me are more a product of the Knicks mis-using him thus far. He's far more effective to me as a secondary ball handler, and playing more off ball. Despite shooting just 36.0% from the field so far this year, Ntilikina is shooting 48.0% off the catch with 1.22 PPP (88.9 percentile). Again, I like Bonga, but he's not on Ntilikina's level as a prospect at all to me.

A guy that to me is being extremely underrated, and I've not seen him mentioned in this thread yet is Bruce Brown Jr. I've not done any rankings or anything like that yet, simply because mine would change so often, and I don't like to rank guys until I've fully watched everyone a good amount - but Brown is a guy you should consider to be in that tier.

I caught up a ton on him today, and really really like him as a guy for the Cavs to target as well if their pick ends up in that 10-12 range. I'll post more about him possibly tomorrow. He's got a pretty high floor, can do a little bit of everything.

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@InBoobieWeTrust

Nathan S said:

It's hard to compare Jackson to Ayton and Bagley because he's so much better than them on defense and they're so much better than him on offense.

Against Bamba, he's a better prospect hands down at this point, I think. Bamba's edge over him on defense is down to a sliver, and Jackson looks better offensively in a lot of ways, in particular his ability to make occasional 3's, his ability to get to the line and make free throws, and his ability to pass at a basic level (Bamba doesn't have an assist yet this month).

I do think Jackson will ultimately be able to shoot NBA 3's. His current 12/35 from 3-point range doesn't prove anything by itself, but 47/56 from the line is very encouraging. When's the last time a big man shot 80%+ from the line in college and then failed to develop a decent set shot in the NBA? This seems like a safe bet if he keeps it up.

As for who I'd want on the Cavs, I'm gonna cop out for now on the grounds that we have no idea who will be on this roster next summer. Even if we restrict ourselves to scenarios where we keep LeBron, whether or not we re-sign IT could make all the difference.

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What keeps Bamba above Jackson for me so far is that I still think Bamba has a bigger upside defensively. Like, everything Bamba does defensively right now is pretty much all just natural ability and feel. He's got a nose for shot blocking and he has the physical tools to take advantage of it. I absolutely think Bamba is capable of guarding the perimeter much like Jackson is doing, as well as cover space and he has down right freaky coordination for how long his limbs are. It's just that he doesn't really know how to do any of it yet. Similarly, I also think he can develop into a good shooter based on how his shooting form looks and I've seen him display a nice touch around the rim, at least moreso than Jackson has (although Jackson almost never gets touches around the rim, so it's a small sample size).

It all sort of adds up to me thinking that Bamba just has more upside than Jackson in general. He just has... a loooooong way to get there. Jackson right now looks like the kind of kid who you could drop in on an squad tommorow and he can be your defensive anchor within a season or two. Bamba might turn into the better anchor but it will probably take longer than two seasons.

blommen said:

What keeps Bamba above Jackson for me so far is that I still think Bamba has a bigger upside defensively. Like, everything Bamba does defensively right now is pretty much all just natural ability and feel. He's got a nose for shot blocking and he has the physical tools to take advantage of it. I absolutely think Bamba is capable of guarding the perimeter much like Jackson is doing, as well as cover space and he has down right freaky coordination for how long his limbs are. It's just that he doesn't really know how to do any of it yet. Similarly, I also think he can develop into a good shooter based on how his shooting form looks and I've seen him display a nice touch around the rim, at least moreso than Jackson has (although Jackson almost never gets touches around the rim, so it's a small sample size).

It all sort of adds up to me thinking that Bamba just has more upside than Jackson in general. He just has... a loooooong way to get there. Jackson right now looks like the kind of kid who you could drop in on an squad tommorow and he can be your defensive anchor within a season or two. Bamba might turn into the better anchor but it will probably take longer than two seasons.

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I'd be on board with that if Bamba was younger than Jackson, but it's actually the other way around. Bamba will turn 20 before the NBA draft this summer, while Jackson won't turn 20 until fall 2019. Bamba has big-time upside, don't get me wrong...but Jackson has just as much upside, maybe more. Hell, he may not even be done growing.

Nathan S said:

No doubt Ntilikina's a better player than Bonga right now; I'm just comparing them as prospects. Bonga's playing a similar role to what Ntilikina played last year in a similar strength league. His offensive numbers are generally a touch worse than what Ntilikina produced, and his defensive numbers a touch better.

I love Brown's defensive upside, but, of course, worry about his fit on offense. He's a good, low-mistake floor general, but good enough to run an NBA offense someday? I can't understand why he doesn't draw more fouls considering his solid handle and elite athleticism. That should be his bread and butter. He's also a year old for a sophomore.





It's hard to compare Jackson to Ayton and Bagley because he's so much better than them on defense and they're so much better than him on offense.

Against Bamba, he's a better prospect hands down at this point, I think. Bamba's edge over him on defense is down to a sliver, and Jackson looks better offensively in a lot of ways, in particular his ability to make occasional 3's, his ability to get to the line and make free throws, and his ability to pass at a basic level (Bamba doesn't have an assist yet this month).

I do think Jackson will ultimately be able to shoot NBA 3's. His current 12/35 from 3-point range doesn't prove anything by itself, but 47/56 from the line is very encouraging. When's the last time a big man shot 80%+ from the line in college and then failed to develop a decent set shot in the NBA? This seems like a safe bet if he keeps it up.

As for who I'd want on the Cavs, I'm gonna cop out for now on the grounds that we have no idea who will be on this roster next summer. Even if we restrict ourselves to scenarios where we keep LeBron, whether or not we re-sign IT could make all the difference.

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Bruce Brown is much more of an NBA 2 to me. His shooting is much better off the catch anyway. He can run pick and rolls occasionally, as he's pretty much impossible to stop once downhill off a screen to his right. That's one of the reasons I really like him - he can do a little bit of everything offensively, and is already and NBA level defender. He also has one of the best pump fakes in the draft - probably him and Grayson Allen. That's an underrated skillset. It helps his pretty good first step in attacking closeouts. It's not a skill that gets you into the lottery or anything, but it just further makes me think he's best as an NBA 2.

My main concern with him is his finishing. He's not super crafty around the rim. He's got great touch with his right hand, but not much with his left. But yeah, he relies pretty much solely on his athleticism around the rim and playing through contact. I too am surprised he doesn't get to the FT line that often. It's a concern obviously because like I've mentioned, that type of finishing style is less likely to translate against NBA length and size as the craftier types of finishers.

Nathan S said:

I'd be on board with that if Bamba was younger than Jackson, but it's actually the other way around. Bamba will turn 20 before the NBA draft this summer, while Jackson won't turn 20 until fall 2019. Bamba has big-time upside, don't get me wrong...but Jackson has just as much upside, maybe more. Hell, he may not even be done growing.

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Jesus, is Bamba actually that old? In that case you take Jackson, regardless of Bambas physical attributes. He's a giant octopus but he doesn't know how to utilize it. Jackson is an Orangutang who's been studying Draymond Green and Rudy Gobert defensive highlight vids on youtube since he was born.

3 Ball...GOT IT said:

Bruce Brown is much more of an NBA 2 to me. His shooting is much better off the catch anyway. He can run pick and rolls occasionally, as he's pretty much impossible to stop once downhill off a screen to his right. That's one of the reasons I really like him - he can do a little bit of everything offensively, and is already and NBA level defender. He also has one of the best pump fakes in the draft - probably him and Grayson Allen. That's an underrated skillset. It helps his pretty good first step in attacking closeouts. It's not a skill that gets you into the lottery or anything, but it just further makes me think he's best as an NBA 2.

My main concern with him is his finishing. He's not super crafty around the rim. He's got great touch with his right hand, but not much with his left. But yeah, he relies pretty much solely on his athleticism around the rim and playing through contact. I too am surprised he doesn't get to the FT line that often. It's a concern obviously because like I've mentioned, that type of finishing style is less likely to translate against NBA length and size as the craftier types of finishers.

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I like him a lot more if I can trust his jumpshot. His career 35% 3-point shooting and 71% free throw shooting paint an ambiguous picture there; if he really is a solid set shooter and finishes the year shooting at least in the high 30's from 3 I'll definitely start to see him as a lottery pick.