Cleveland Browns Quarterback Position

thestatman said:

Alex, give me quarterbacks for 800... 386 passing yards, 27 for 35, 3 touchdowns, and no turnovers against one of the best defenses on the road who will have a cornerback and a d lineman drafted in the first round. "Who is Baker Mayfield and his numbers against Ohio State last season". Correct!

The best thing about this pick would be how it would piss off all these football gurus. How dare the Browns actually draft the best quarterback in this draft.

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24 of 31, 2 TD and 92 rushing yards

28 of 39, 5 TD and 98 rushing yards


Best QB in the 2014 draft vs. Alabama

Midwestcav said:

It is not just about completion percentage when evaluating a quarterback. It is the team and system he goes to. For you guys that are tied up with stats all the time, you will never get past it unless it supports your agenda. Stafford went to one of the losingest teams ever, on par with the Browns, because both of them can't get a draft right to save their ass. I would rather have Stafford than anyone the Browns have had in that same time period. A harsh truth.

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“Stats are for losers” -Mel Kiper

In one respect, the people who say it's not all about completion percentage are right.

It's about a lack of touch, accuracy, poor mechanics, lack of understanding of concepts. TRAITS make great QBs. Allen has one or two.

All things Allen has to deal with, but people want to talk about how all of these will suddenly become teachable. They're wrong.

Lee said:

I would agree about having stafford, but stafford played in the SEC and improved his completion percentage significantly each of the 3 years he played.

Stat guys would not compare Allen to Stafford.

Best comparison is Drew Bledsoe or Brett Favre. Obviously all of us would love for Allen to turn into Favre. Thing is these are the exception to low completion strong armed college qb's not the rule.

Allen is a huge risk. But he is a boom or best type prospect, one I personally do not believe is worth the risk of the first pick. Typically this type of risk at qb is early 2nd.

Brees and Favre are examples of flawed college prospect QB's who were taken in the early 2nd that worked out to HOF careers. So I am not saying there is no way Josh Allen will be good, i am just saying that based on historical data, there is a lower chance of him being good than Rosen. But if Allen is good, there is a very good chance he will be great. But I just rather not gamble as much on the pick and go with Rosen who is the safest bet, not the highest ceiling.

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Lee said:

I would agree about having stafford, but stafford played in the SEC and improved his completion percentage significantly each of the 3 years he played.

Stat guys would not compare Allen to Stafford.

Best comparison is Drew Bledsoe or Brett Favre. Obviously all of us would love for Allen to turn into Favre. Thing is these are the exception to low completion strong armed college qb's not the rule.

Allen is a huge risk. But he is a boom or best type prospect, one I personally do not believe is worth the risk of the first pick. Typically this type of risk at qb is early 2nd.

Brees and Favre are examples of flawed college prospect QB's who were taken in the early 2nd that worked out to HOF careers. So I am not saying there is no way Josh Allen will be good, i am just saying that based on historical data, there is a lower chance of him being good than Rosen. But if Allen is good, there is a very good chance he will be great. But I just rather not gamble as much on the pick and go with Rosen who is the safest bet, not the highest ceiling.

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I agree with you 100%. I just get tired of the people who do make blanket statements about his stats and don't know how he came by them. UCLA, USC, Oklahoma and other schools pay their OC's as much as Wyoming can pay their HC. It doesn't mean their coaches are necessarily better, but for the most part they get better coaches. If one of those schools had our OC, they would be bottom dwellers in the conference. How good would the quarterbacks from those schools be if they had to operate with Wyomings' personell and scheme? Switch them and Allen and then see what they say about Darnold, Mayfield, and Rosen. Not one of those three would probably be in the conversation. And Allen would be #1 hands down if he was at one of those schools and the other three playing for a team like Allen was.

All I am saying is Allen doesn't get the credit for playing for a mediocre team. But he gets all the negatives that go with it. I know Allen is not ready to play right away, but I have seen this kid from the start. I have watched him develop for 3 years. And people who say he didn't improve from the year before are clueless. They are going strictly off of stats. Allen manages his own blocking schemes, has learned to do what is best for his team, not just him. And it has cut into his production. But the stay guys just keep repeating crap like a mantra. Most probably never looked up his stats for themselves. Little alone watch a few games. And if anyone else watches a highlight reel of Allen, his highlights are as good or better than the ones people keep posting of their favorite qb's. And Allen can throw touch passes, it is in his highlight tapes. So people can stop using that excuse. But I am sure they will find something else to harp on. Even if it amounts to nothing. Much like their stats.

bubba52782 said:

“Stats are for losers” -Mel Kiper

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“Stats are for losers. For example, my prick is not defined by its 3 inch length. It’s still a hammer by almost every other measurable.” - Mel Kiper

AZ_ said:

In one respect, the people who say it's not all about completion percentage are right.

It's about a lack of touch, accuracy, poor mechanics, lack of understanding of concepts. TRAITS make great QBs. Allen has one or two.

All things Allen has to deal with, but people want to talk about how all of these will suddenly become teachable. They're wrong.

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No AZ, you are wrong. I have watched Allen in person 19 games. On TV for probably that many. And you know more about him than I do? Have you ever even coached? I have, and I have developed players. I know it can be done personally. Allen has been told he couldn't do it his whole life. Now he could go #1. I will make a bet with you if you honor it. If Allen goes #1, you disappear from this forum forever. If Allen doesn't, I will disappear. Money you won't take the deal. This board is all you have. And if you did take the deal, you wouldn't honor it or come back on in another name like bOObie. Take the bet AZ. Back up your mouth.

It doesn't matter how many times you watch a player if you're evaluating with your heart.

Midwestcav said:

No AZ, you are wrong. I have watched Allen in person 19 games. On TV for probably that many. And you know more about him than I do? Have you ever even coached? I have, and I have developed players. I know it can be done personally. Allen has been told he couldn't do it his whole life. Now he could go #1. I will make a bet with you if you honor it. If Allen goes #1, you disappar from this forum forever. If Allen doesn't, I will disappear. Money you won't take the deal. This board is all you have. And if you did take the deal, you wouldn't honor it or come back on in another name like bOObie. Take the bet AZ. Back up your mouth.

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Midwestcav said:

No AZ, you are wrong. I have watched Allen in person 19 games. On TV for probably that many. And you know more about him than I do? Have you ever even coached? I have, and I have developed players. I know it can be done personally. Allen has been told he couldn't do it his whole life. Now he could go #1. I will make a bet with you if you honor it. If Allen goes #1, you disappar from this forum forever. If Allen doesn't, I will disappear. Money you won't take the deal. This board is all you have. And if you did take the deal, you wouldn't honor it or come back on in another name like bOObie. Take the bet AZ. Back up your mouth.

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Pretty sure whether Allen goes #1 or not is inconsequential to b00bt00b. We all agree it's certainly feasible the Browns continue to Brown up every draft and take this unremarkable QB #1 overall.

His point is that they shouldn't.

Midwestcav said:

No AZ, you are wrong. I have watched Allen in person 19 games. On TV for probably that many. And you know more about him than I do? Have you ever even coached? I have, and I have developed players. I know it can be done personally. Allen has been told he couldn't do it his whole life. Now he could go #1. I will make a bet with you if you honor it. If Allen goes #1, you disappar from this forum forever. If Allen doesn't, I will disappear. Money you won't take the deal. This board is all you have. And if you did take the deal, you wouldn't honor it or come back on in another name like bOObie. Take the bet AZ. Back up your mouth.

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I love that you bet him money he wouldn't take the bet. Thats next level.

mds said:

I love that you bet him money he wouldn't take the bet. Thats next level.

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5D chess bets.

I raise the Wyoming developers bet by two bets

mds said:

I love that you bet him money he wouldn't take the bet. Thats next level.

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It's the Inception of bets.

I wager 20 quatloos on the rustic fellow.

AZ_ said:

It doesn't matter how many times you watch a player if you're evaluating with your heart.

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Bullshit!!! I call a spade a spade in case you haven't noticed. I readily say Allen needs to sit a year. That he is not the most ready to play. But I do think he has the most upside. If Baker was taller I would pick him, but I feel he won't be able to see over the line for throwing lanes. I feel he has the arm, the touch, and leadership among other things. I feel Rosen will get injured and Darnold is just hard for me to nail down.

I know Allens weak spots better than anyone on here, but I am certainly not giving this crowd ammunition. You guys dream up enough on him the way it is. I will give you one on here but it is half his fault, half his running backs fault. His throws to a back on a relief flare are behind him a quarter of the time, the other quarter the back drops the pass right to him. So only half of those passes get completed. And that should be around the 80 percentile. The pass out of the backfield should be an easy pass for him. But he is looking better with his short passes, but they are against air.

I always got mad at his OC because he would never work Allen into a game. He would start him out on a 3rd and long pass. A lot of quarterbacks need a few short passes to start off the game or the 2nd half. You hear announcers talk about it all the time. They need to get a little confidence before trying to throw passes in tiny windows. And with how slow the Wyoming receivers were, he didn't get to throw too many timing passes because they couldn't get seperation. If you had actually watched Allen and Wyoming play against Oregon , you would have seen how outmatched Wyoming was. Oregon had a lot of team speed that we couldn't match up to.

In the Iowa game this year the score was Iowa up 7 - 3 with about two minutes left in the first half. Allen hits a wide open receiver perfectly in the hands in the end zone for an easy TD. The receiver drops it . That pretty much summed up our receivers for the year. The offense looked OK in the bowl game, and Allen played well with three TD,' in the 1st quarter I do believe. In the 2nd half our OC starts running the ball again because we have a big lead and he wants to chew up clock, not develop players for next year. Not reward backups and seniors who deserved some playing time. So Allen ends up finishing his career handing off the football on the blue smurf turf in Boise Idaho in the Potato Bowl.

Vigen is Wyoming's OC, how that idiot got to coach Wentz and Allen is beyond me. That both were in the running for the #1 pick in the draft is nothing short of amazing. Try and watch Vigen call a Wyoming game, you will be pulling your hair out before the end of it. The guy is retarded. To have a qb like Allen starting for you and you literally hold him back and turn him into a fullback , and a guy that hands the ball off to running backs that average around 2.5 yards a carry if that. The only reason Allen was being looked at is he would put on a clinic at times the year before, and got us in the conference championship after being picked last by the press and coaches in the preseason . Allen led us past ranked Boise State and ranked San Diego State to win our division. We lost to San Diego State in the championship game by 3.

Wyoming had 5 offensive players in NFL camps that year. Which has never happened at UW before. Four of them made rosters. This year we may not have anyone on the offensive side of the ball but Allen in NFL camps unless they walk on. So those of you who like to throw stats around, there are just some stats that won't tell the story of what is really going on. And Allen has never even got close to throwing anyone under the bus. The only thing he says is it was his fault and that he needs to get better and fix it. That it was mostly his footwork and that they are working really hard to reverse that. He never blames his coaches, players, offense or other things that he should. He is a class act and Cleveland would be lucky to have him. But I think we all agree he is not the right fit at this time. You and a few others are the only ones saying he can't improve. You are dead wrong and have no background other than a shitty opinion of what he is capable of doing. And why you think your unqualified opinion means anything is beyond me. There are a shitload of people who have seen him in person, who have either played the game or been around it in some professional capacity that disagree with you. So I think I will take their opinion over yours based on sound logic.

The new guy has longer posts than Sportscock did when he first started interning here