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2021-2022 Cavaliers General Discussion: Trade Deadline Edition

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Who Should the Cavs Trade For?

  • Murray

    Votes: 18 37.5%

  • Lavert

    Votes: 17 35.4%

  • White

    Votes: 1 2.1%

  • Seth Curry

    Votes: 1 2.1%

  • Schroeder

    Votes: 7 14.6%

  • Tatum

    Votes: 3 6.3%

  • Hart

    Votes: 3 6.3%

  • Ingram

    Votes: 1 2.1%

  • Brown

    Votes: 2 4.2%

  • Jim Chones

    Votes: 9 18.8%
  • Total voters
    48
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What about Kemba? He's a bit too undersized to play much alongside Garland -- but he's certainly got more left in the tank than Rondo.

Knicks apparently just want a future second - we could probably also get him for free via trade exception (though that would put us into the tax, so I don't think we would do that). He makes half as much as Levert and is a better defender.

Not an optimal choice - but if the price from the Pacers is 2 firsts (which is insane) - then Walker for nothing makes much more sense.
 
Lyuokdea said:
What about Kemba? He's a bit too undersized to play much alongside Garland -- but he's certainly got more left in the tank than Rondo.

Knicks apparently just want a future second - we could probably also get him for free via trade exception (though that would put us into the tax, so I don't think we would do that). He makes half as much as Levert and is a better defender.

Not an optimal choice - but if the price from the Pacers is 2 firsts (which is insane) - then Walker for nothing makes much more sense.
Click to expand...
Maybe if he got bought out but I doubt Gilbert wants to go that far into the tax for a washed up kemba
 
I really don't like spending multiple FRPs on LeVert. To me you only spend multiple FRPs on a guy who you know is going to be a good fit. Maybe our FO knows he would be a good fit but on paper the streakiness and injuries make it questionable I think.
 
Kouki said:
I really don't like spending multiple FRPs on LeVert. To me you only spend multiple FRPs on a guy who you know is going to be a good fit. Maybe our FO knows he would be a good fit but on paper the streakiness and injuries make it questionable I think.
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Koby won’t part with two 1’s for him and Indy won’t get two 1’s from anyone.

Pacers will settle for Rubio and a 1st or they’re just missing out on the best time to move an oft-injured player, playing his best basketball, with juuuust enough contract left to extract value. If they balk, it’s spiting themselves, but Pacers tend to be stubborn for no reason—there is a reason their franchise is where it is currently, going nowhere.

Maybe Koby adds Windler or a 2nd to grease the wheels as a sign of good faith, but there’s no chance we end up giving up a future 1st—too many variables. On this young team, we have 3 2022 picks. No reason to bring in more than one rookie. This is the pool of picks to play with and keep all future assets for flexibility.

As for fit, I don’t think you could scheme up a better fit. True athletic wing size on a team that lacks wings. Facilitator on a team that lacks facilitators. Tremendous person character-wise for a locker room. Has been a 6th man, a starter, and will do what it takes to help the team. No ego. Long 6’10 wing span with defensive tools—although he hasn’t been known for that side of the ball, I think this team’s culture would get buy-in there. Lauri wasn’t known for defensive effort either, remember. Positional versatility, he can play anything from 1-3 allowing him to be in lineups with 2 of Lauri, Okoro, and Sexton at once.

Additionally, I think there’s a high likelihood he’ll want to extend in Cleveland after next season as well. He is often in lineups where he is the primary ball handler. He can do this with us while Garland rests, but I think being off ball and being able to catch-and-shoot will help his long-range efficiency.
 
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dark2332 said:
Additionally, I think there’s a high likelihood he’ll want to extend in Cleveland after next season as well. He is often in lineups where he is the primary ball handler. He can do this with us while Garland rests, but I think being off ball and being able to catch-and-shoot will help his long-range efficiency.
Click to expand...

The problem with this is that Levert is a pretty abysmal catch and shoot player:

This year he's shooting 38.6% on catch and shoot 3s (compared to 32.3% overall) -- which is about average -- though it's only on 40 attempts or so.

But last year it was 33% (on catch and shoot) compared to 32.6% overall.

2019-2020 he shot 31.6% on catch and shoot compared to 36.4% overall - so he actually shot better from 3 after dribbling.
2018-2019 he shot an abysmal 27.3% on catch and shoot compared to 31.2% overall.
2017-2018 he shot 36.9% on catch and shoot compared to 34.7% overall
2016-2017 he shot 33.3% on catch and shoot compared to 32.6% overall.

Most players shoot 5-6% higher on catch and shoot opportunities -- Levert is the opposite. He really does need the ball in his hands to be effective, which is why he makes more sense as a 6th man than a starter alongside Garland.

Players Catch & Shoot | Stats | NBA.com

A table featuring catch and shoot information for each player in the league based on selected filters.
www.nba.com www.nba.com
 
Ohioplayer00 said:
They can have Rubio and Sexton AND THAT’S IT!!!! That’s the best deal they would in any talk of including Sexton.
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They’re not getting Sexton. Go pound salt. F them- choke on being last in the division.
2 firsts by itself is a goddam comedy.
 
Lyuokdea said:
The problem with this is that Levert is a pretty abysmal catch and shoot player:

This year he's shooting 38.6% on catch and shoot 3s (compared to 32.3% overall) -- which is about average -- though it's only on 40 attempts or so.

But last year it was 33% (on catch and shoot) compared to 32.6% overall.

2019-2020 he shot 31.6% on catch and shoot compared to 36.4% overall - so he actually shot better from 3 after dribbling.
2018-2019 he shot an abysmal 27.3% on catch and shoot compared to 31.2% overall.
2017-2018 he shot 36.9% on catch and shoot compared to 34.7% overall
2016-2017 he shot 33.3% on catch and shoot compared to 32.6% overall.

Most players shoot 5-6% higher on catch and shoot opportunities -- Levert is the opposite. He really does need the ball in his hands to be effective, which is why he makes more sense as a 6th man than a starter alongside Garland.

Players Catch & Shoot | Stats | NBA.com

A table featuring catch and shoot information for each player in the league based on selected filters.
www.nba.com www.nba.com
Click to expand...
Sure, I’m aware this is the first year his catch-and-shoot numbers have really spiked in comparison to off-the-dribble.

But I think there’s two things at play here. One, despite being 27, he still hasn’t played in 300 career NBA games, and much of that time was re-acclimating from injuries. That’s half-a-season less than Jarrett Allen, and we say he’s still developing as an NBA player.

The other is that his corner three percentage in his career has been remarkably wild and very low. His career percentage is 33% in the corners, lower than his overall, but it’s been anywhere from 25%-39% by season. It also only comprises 13% of his total three point attempts, but I think this is where the catch-and-shoot numbers drag down as most corner attempts are assisted.

I think this is something that can be addressed, but considering the actions we’d want to run with him, shouldn’t be a problem.
 
dark2332 said:
Sure, I’m aware this is the first year his catch-and-shoot numbers have really spiked in comparison to off-the-dribble.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't call the current season a spike - even this season his catch and shoot numbers (compared to his off the dribble numbers) are lower than an average NBA wing.

I'm not saying he's terrible - he's just not a catch and shoot player. That's fine -- but we're making a mistake if we trade for him and then pigeon hole him into that role. There are players (Gordon, Hield) who do really fit into that role, if that is what we are looking for.
 
Lyuokdea said:
I wouldn't call the current season a spike - even this season his catch and shoot numbers (compared to his off the dribble numbers) are lower than an average NBA wing.

I'm not saying he's terrible - he's just not a catch and shoot player. That's fine -- but we're making a mistake if we trade for him and then pigeon hole him into that role. There are players (Gordon, Hield) who do really fit into that role, if that is what we are looking for.
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Well, we’d be moving for him because we need a playmaking wing beyond all else.

Buddy Hield waiting on *checks notes* Brandon Goodwin to set him up for shots is what’s wrong with this team and is a waste of assets.

LeVert brings a lot of what we need. Bringing him in to be a spot-up shooter isn’t the goal. That said, I am optimistic that being paired with Garland on the court at times can get him quality shots and easy buckets. More likely, I am excited by the idea of Garland not having to work so hard to get all of his own shots.
 
dark2332 said:
Well, we’d be moving for him because we need a playmaking wing beyond all else.

Buddy Hield waiting on *checks notes* Brandon Goodwin to set him up for shots is what’s wrong with this team and is a waste of assets.

LeVert brings a lot of what we need. Bringing him in to be a spot-up shooter isn’t the goal. That said, I am optimistic they being paired with Garland on the court at times can get him quality shots and easy buckets. More likely, I like the idea of Garland not having to work so hard to get all of his own shots.
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Yeah... that's exactly what I just said. He's not a catch and shoot player.
 
Lyuokdea said:
Yeah... that's exactly what I just said. He's not a catch and shoot player.
Click to expand...
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Lyuokdea said:
I wouldn't call the current season a spike - even this season his catch and shoot numbers (compared to his off the dribble numbers) are lower than an average NBA wing.

I'm not saying he's terrible - he's just not a catch and shoot player. That's fine -- but we're making a mistake if we trade for him and then pigeon hole him into that role. There are players (Gordon, Hield) who do really fit into that role, if that is what we are looking for.
Click to expand...
Then you probably want to avoid using words like "abysmal" to describe him.
 
Lyuokdea said:
What about Kemba? He's a bit too undersized to play much alongside Garland -- but he's certainly got more left in the tank than Rondo.

Knicks apparently just want a future second - we could probably also get him for free via trade exception (though that would put us into the tax, so I don't think we would do that). He makes half as much as Levert and is a better defender.

Not an optimal choice - but if the price from the Pacers is 2 firsts (which is insane) - then Walker for nothing makes much more sense.
Click to expand...

Maybe the Walker deal would be less bad...but I still don't think it would be a good one on its own merits. Better to make no deal than a poor one.
 
Yeah if the Pacers really have the mindset that the Cavs need LaVert they are kidding themselves. There are easier-to-get options out there who are likely better fits for this team anyway. Eric Gordon for example.
 
dark2332 said:
Koby won’t part with two 1’s for him and Indy won’t get two 1’s from anyone.

Pacers will settle for Rubio and a 1st or they’re just missing out on the best time to move an oft-injured player, playing his best basketball, with juuuust enough contract left to extract value. If they balk, it’s spiting themselves, but Pacers tend to be stubborn for no reason—there is a reason their franchise is where it is currently, going nowhere.

Maybe Koby adds Windler or a 2nd to grease the wheels as a sign of good faith, but there’s no chance we end up giving up a future 1st—too many variables. On this young team, we have 3 2022 picks. No reason to bring in more than one rookie. This is the pool of picks to play with and keep all future assets for flexibility.

As for fit, I don’t think you could scheme up a better fit. True athletic wing size on a team that lacks wings. Facilitator on a team that lacks facilitators. Tremendous person character-wise for a locker room. Has been a 6th man, a starter, and will do what it takes to help the team. No ego. Long 6’10 wing span with defensive tools—although he hasn’t been known for that side of the ball, I think this team’s culture would get buy-in there. Lauri wasn’t known for defensive effort either, remember. Positional versatility, he can play anything from 1-3 allowing him to be in lineups with 2 of Lauri, Okoro, and Sexton at once.

Additionally, I think there’s a high likelihood he’ll want to extend in Cleveland after next season as well. He is often in lineups where he is the primary ball handler. He can do this with us while Garland rests, but I think being off ball and being able to catch-and-shoot will help his long-range efficiency.
Click to expand...

You are right that in principle Levert fits great, he plugs a lot of holes at the same time - supplementary playmaker with DG, backup PG when DG is out, SF size when we need a more conventional 3, can play with any 2 of our 1-3 guys.

I’m just worried that he’s not that good.
 
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