Monta Ellis can be had for a big man *cough* Andy *cough*

[Tornicade]

No, one thread has merit and the other is a fantasy trade . so real trade discussion going on have no impact on this thread at all

 

[Dr. Gymbo]

No, one thread has merit and the other is a fantasy trade . so real trade discussion going on have no impact on this thread at all

If you truly dislike this part of the board so much, then why do you keep posting in here?

 

[MoFlo]

Well for those of us who don't scour every inch of this forum, don't you think that news impacts the possibility of Cleveland trading for him?

There's a search function.

 

[ClevelandFanati]

There's a search function.

Thanks, I'm well aware of that, but for the second time the news directly impacts the entire point of this thread, so it belongs here also. Why is that so difficult to understand?

 

[MoFlo]

Thanks, I'm well aware of that, but for the second time the news directly impacts the entire point of this thread, so it belongs here also. Why is that so difficult to understand?

Did I say I agreed with him or that it didn't deserve its own thread? Hmm, must have missed where I said that.

All I said was that there's a search function, which certainly fits what you said here:

Well for those of us who don't scour every inch of this forum

You wanted to make a smart-ass remark, you got one back. Simple as that.

 

[Tornicade]

Thanks, I'm well aware of that, but for the second time the news directly impacts the entire point of this thread, so it belongs here also. Why is that so difficult to understand?

nothings stopping you from saying.

well so and so is reporting that ellis and may get traded for iggy I think that is a better/worse trade than the one being discussed on this thread.

then soeone else can respond thats the dumbest/smartest idea ever. perhaps we can take on biedrins for a draft pick so they can have room to acquire another guy since their so cose to the luxury tax and take nocionis contract and get the rest of the tpe to golden state. we can through in harris and graham for kicks.!!

 

[AvonCavsFan]

Ive found that statistics are a useful tool in confirming or dbunking common perception of players.

They are often misused though which is why I even brought them into the discussion when avon started going on about usage.

statistics are great to bolster or deflate an opinion but they shouldnt be the sole basis of consideration.

for instance many say sessions was limited because of the players around him but other point guards on the roster did not seem to have similiar issues. its not like sessions came to cleveland and slumped. he is now coming off his best season overall in the NBA.

I haven't had much time to respond lately. But here it goes.

Why USG is important in correlation to PER is as follows:

Lastly, PER rewards inefficient shooting. To quote Dave Berri, the author of The Wages of Wins:

"Hollinger argues that each two point field goal made is worth about 1.65 points. A three point field goal made is worth 2.65 points. A missed field goal, though, costs a team 0.72 points. Given these values, with a bit of math we can show that a player will break even on his two point field goal attempts if he hits on 30.4% of these shots. On three pointers the break-even point is 21.4%. If a player exceeds these thresholds, and virtually every NBA player does so with respect to two-point shots, the more he shoots the higher his value in PERs. So a player can be an inefficient scorer and simply inflate his value by taking a large number of shots."

From here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player_Efficiency_Rating

So a player like Ellis who shoots a lot has an inflated PER. So to reiterate, Ramon uses less possessions AND has a higher PER. That is the more efficient player.

Some of what you say has value without question. Ellis does space the floor better. BUT when you hammered on the value of spacing the floor you ignored the thing Ramon does the best. Get to the free throw line. He was number ONE among ALL GUARDS last year in free throws per field goals attempted. On a better team this would be a great asset, as we get points when he is shooting free throws, but we also get to the bonus much faster when he is in the game. And this alone is why I like Ramon. He KNOWS what he is good at and he does THAT! There are a ton of players in this league who suck at shooting threes, but it doesn't stop them from jacking them up. To me Ellis is a better SG than Sessions, but I would say Sessions is a better PG than Ellis. And Sessions is younger and really didn't get good PG coaching until this year.

As for how good a teammate he is or if the coaches like him, I am not in the locker room. I can only judge what I see on the floor. IF he is a cancer, then move him. But if he just expressed the desire that he wants to play more, I see nothing wrong with being a competitor.

My conclusion is the same as I stated from the first post I made, Monta is not worth $7 million per year more than Ramon and he sure as hell is not worth giving up AV for. Not for this team at this time. If we can get something nice for Ramon, we have to do it, but I don't think we just give him away.

 

[aldashex86]

If we could squeeze Dorell Wright out of them...then I'm all for it.

 

[WhoWeAre]

I haven't had much time to respond lately. But here it goes.

Why USG is important in correlation to PER is as follows:



From here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player_Efficiency_Rating

So a player like Ellis who shoots a lot has an inflated PER. So to reiterate, Ramon uses less possessions AND has a higher PER. That is the more efficient player.

Some of what you say has value without question. Ellis does space the floor better. BUT when you hammered on the value of spacing the floor you ignored the thing Ramon does the best. Get to the free throw line. He was number ONE among ALL GUARDS last year in free throws per field goals attempted. On a better team this would be a great asset, as we get points when he is shooting free throws, but we also get to the bonus much faster when he is in the game. And this alone is why I like Ramon. He KNOWS what he is good at and he does THAT! There are a ton of players in this league who suck at shooting threes, but it doesn't stop them from jacking them up. To me Ellis is a better SG than Sessions, but I would say Sessions is a better PG than Ellis. And Sessions is younger and really didn't get good PG coaching until this year.

As for how good a teammate he is or if the coaches like him, I am not in the locker room. I can only judge what I see on the floor. IF he is a cancer, then move him. But if he just expressed the desire that he wants to play more, I see nothing wrong with being a competitor.

My conclusion is the same as I stated from the first post I made, Monta is not worth $7 million per year more than Ramon and he sure as hell is not worth giving up AV for. Not for this team at this time. If we can get something nice for Ramon, we have to do it, but I don't think we just give him away.

It's already been clearly confirmed from multiple sources that he doesn't listen to coaching and that he's a cancer. There were numerous reports last year to this exact point. He's gone, and I trust that the FO will get value for him. There are too many teams needing his overrated skills.