Z as trade bait?

[kovanovich]

I included the following list in the recent Why LeBron Will Stay in Cleveland thread, which I compiled in response to a point made by the writer of the RealGM article that it made some sense for the Cavs to forget trying about the 2010 FA season because they won't be able to sign anyone else anyway, and to focus on 2011 FA market instead. Thought it'd be worth including in this thread, especially since Murphy is a player that meets the criteria of a contract that expires in 2011 and is someone the Cavs might be interested in...The writer of the RealGM article suggested Redd, but it seems to me that Murphy or West would be the better fit.

http://www.realcavsfans.com/showthread.php?t=24285&page=2

Michael Redd (Bucks want to dump more salary?? Do the Cavs need a SG?? Cavs would have to add Gibson to deal, but why would Bucks want him and his salary??)
Tayshaun Prince (If they aren't going to make the playoffs, Pistons may wish to unload, but why would Cavs be interested in him?)
Troy Murphy (Many in this forum would love to have him, but only possible if Pacers aren't competitive and desperate to save money, but at 29 probably not in Pacers' long-term plans?)
Tyson Chandler (Would be our potential C of the future, but fit is not certain along side AV; if out of contention, Charlotte may wish to dump him, but would he help Cavs??)
Nick Collison (Discussed somewhat passionately in another thread; likely not in long-term plans of OKC? OKC would have to add someone else to make the salaries work -- maybe Earl Watson?? But Collison would just be a backup, so probably not worth the effort.)
David West (Probably wishful thinking, since NO looks to compete, but if they struggle...Would probably require additional enticements, such as picks or Hickson.)
Caron Butler (Unless entire Wizards roster is injured again and they are on target to win 20 games, won't be available, but what if that does happen? Wiz would prefer to trade Jamison though, due to his horrible contract.)

 

[jkoewler]

Northstar wisely points out:

I fail to see why Toronto would be interested in Z's expiring. Bosh is a bigger expiring contract himself, so why would they want Z's expiring, especially when they've shown they're willing to spend money (see Hedo signing).

Remember for a moment, we're speculating that Z would be used as trade bait. So, we're also speculating about who might be the other side of the trade.

For purposes of our speculation, let’s assume that Toronto isn’t going to be in contention this year (probably a good assumption.) Let’s also assume that the economy doesn’t grow very quickly this year, and Toronto sees its attendance suffer (probably a fair to good assumption.) Finally, let’s also assume that Toronto would prefer to cut its costs part way through the year so as to reduce the team’s financial losses for 2009-2010. (This one is pure guesswork.) With those assumptions, here’s what could happen:

A trade can have a 25% difference in salary and be valid under the salary cap rules. Bosh makes $15,779,912 for the upcoming season. That means that Toronto needs only $11,834,934 in player salaries coming to the Raptors. Z makes $11,541,074 this season. So, if you package Z and Jawad ($736,420) together, their combined salary is $12,277,494, within the salary cap range necessary to acquire Bosh. That would give Toronto an immediate savings of $3,502,418 if the trade were done before the season started. The savings would be $1,751,209 if the trade were done halfway through the season (i.e., around the trading deadline.)

Jawad’s contract is not guaranteed. (At least, according to Douglar on the Salary Cap thread, it’s not “fully” guaranteed.) Toronto could cut him for an immediate cost savings (assuming that they had enough players under contract to satisfy the Collective Bargaining Agreement.) In addition, whatever reduction that they can negotiate with Z as a buyout also provides an immediate savings.

Northstar is correct in pointing out that Toronto doesn’t get any more salary cap relief next summer by trading Bosh than they do by letting his contract expire. They could, however, get the same salary cap relief next summer AND save cash during this season by making a trade like the one described above.

 

[cavfanintexas]

Northstar wisely points out:



Remember for a moment, we're speculating that Z would be used as trade bait. So, we're also speculating about who might be the other side of the trade.

For purposes of our speculation, let’s assume that Toronto isn’t going to be in contention this year (probably a good assumption.) Let’s also assume that the economy doesn’t grow very quickly this year, and Toronto sees its attendance suffer (probably a fair to good assumption.) Finally, let’s also assume that Toronto would prefer to cut its costs part way through the year so as to reduce the team’s financial losses for 2009-2010. (This one is pure guesswork.) With those assumptions, here’s what could happen:

A trade can have a 25% difference in salary and be valid under the salary cap rules. Bosh makes $15,779,912 for the upcoming season. That means that Toronto needs only $11,834,934 in player salaries coming to the Raptors. Z makes $11,541,074 this season. So, if you package Z and Jawad ($736,420) together, their combined salary is $12,277,494, within the salary cap range necessary to acquire Bosh. That would give Toronto an immediate savings of $3,502,418 if the trade were done before the season started. The savings would be $1,751,209 if the trade were done halfway through the season (i.e., around the trading deadline.)

Jawad’s contract is not guaranteed. (At least, according to Douglar on the Salary Cap thread, it’s not “fully” guaranteed.) Toronto could cut him for an immediate cost savings (assuming that they had enough players under contract to satisfy the Collective Bargaining Agreement.) In addition, whatever reduction that they can negotiate with Z as a buyout also provides an immediate savings.

Northstar is correct in pointing out that Toronto doesn’t get any more salary cap relief next summer by trading Bosh than they do by letting his contract expire. They could, however, get the same salary cap relief next summer AND save cash during this season by making a trade like the one described above.

if they are going to trade Bosh they are going to want JJ, West, and a 1st at the min, team are not out to make the Cavs better. the only way we are able to trade Z is for a long term contract from a team needing to get salaey relief.

 

[Giambiwannabe7]

if they are going to trade Bosh they are going to want JJ, West, and a 1st at the min, team are not out to make the Cavs better. the only way we are able to trade Z is for a long term contract from a team needing to get salaey relief.

I agree, but I'd like to see Boobie supplant West as the other trade chip. Losing delonte would be a huge blow to our backcourt, imo, and one we may have a rought time recovering from.

 

[Douglar]

I agree, but I'd like to see Boobie supplant West as the other trade chip. Losing delonte would be a huge blow to our backcourt, imo, and one we may have a rought time recovering from.

Delonte's a nice player and a good fit, but he's replaceable. If you can get someone Bosh, you trade anyone not named Lebron, including your momma, to get him.

 

[Jon]

That would give Toronto an immediate savings of $3,502,418 if the trade were done before the season started. The savings would be $1,751,209 if the trade were done halfway through the season (i.e., around the trading deadline.)

Interesting, but not worth losing ticket sales, not worth pissing off your fan base, not worth losing Bird rights on Bosh, not worth giving up on making the playoffs, and certainly not worth it when other teams would likely offer some decent parts.

Michael "Puff" Beasley or Ty Thomas (if he continues to improve) for Bosh PLUS expirings would be a lot more enticing.

 

[Mdog1]

The only way we trade for a Bosh is if we take a terrible contract off of their hands. Maybe like Jarret Jacks 20 million dollar albatross. A trade like Bosh + Jack for Z, AV, JJ, Eyenga. That may just entice Toronto enough IMO to get out from Jarret Jacks contract plus getting a lot of talent back in JJ, AV and Eyenga (if he pans out). Plus obviously some picks would have to be included.

But that all being said I really doubt we get Bosh. The Raps IMO will be the 6ish seed this year so Bosh will most likely not be traded. The players that i think we need to keep an eye on are Kevin martin (straight salary dump, picks to sweeten), Amare, Granger, Murphy, West, Brand, Ellis, Biedrins, Jackson, and many many more to but those are the ones that I tihnk we should keep an eye on their teams.

 

[rabman_gold]

Don't know if anyone cares too much, but at least share some interesting tidbits beside the fact he became a father (with huge congrats to him):

I don't know if anyone cares but Z and his wife yesterday adopted two boys 3 and 4 years old from Lithuania. Congratulation Z ! Also interesting thing in his interview to Lithuania press Z said when Cavaliers manager contacted him to ask what does he think about Shaq trade, manager said Z and Shaq sometimes will be playing together at same time! Gonna be slow and HUGE lineup lol.

Edit: Also he talked about his future. He said if he will have enought health he would like to play another season with cavs after this one but it depends if Cavaliers will want him if they will not he will finish his career in Europe.
About this season he said that he don't care if he gonna start or not at this point of career its everything about ring.

http://www.cavfanatic.com/go/thread/view/3816/19981533/Z_news

Somebody was paying attention to his thoughts about his future. Looks like if the Cavs still want him, he'll be back (this could include the understanding that if Z understands that Ferry was making a business decision to trade him for a key piece, then Z will come back whenever; like buyout [not likely] or after the season ends). He wants the ring and seems to not care about Shaq starting in front.

So, we got ourselves a true winner here, folks.

And yes, this came from CavFanatic, but somebody who read the Lithuanian news who just started posting there (Irs with 1 post). I bet he'll find Real Cavs Fans sooner or later if he's a decent poster.

 

[Giambiwannabe7]

Delonte's a nice player and a good fit, but he's replaceable. If you can get someone Bosh, you trade anyone not named Lebron, including your momma, to get him.

Seems like he'd be awful tough to replace at that point in the season. He's a double duty guy and was about the only Cav worth a crap not named LeBron in the ORL series. I don't think it's that easy when you're making a run for a Title to dismiss him so quickly as simply "replaceable."

 

[kovanovich]

The only way we trade for a Bosh is if we take a terrible contract off of their hands. Maybe like Jarret Jacks 20 million dollar albatross. A trade like Bosh + Jack for Z, AV, JJ, Eyenga. That may just entice Toronto enough IMO to get out from Jarret Jacks contract plus getting a lot of talent back in JJ, AV and Eyenga (if he pans out). Plus obviously some picks would have to be included.

But that all being said I really doubt we get Bosh. The Raps IMO will be the 6ish seed this year so Bosh will most likely not be traded. The players that i think we need to keep an eye on are Kevin martin (straight salary dump, picks to sweeten), Amare, Granger, Murphy, West, Brand, Ellis, Biedrins, Jackson, and many many more to but those are the ones that I tihnk we should keep an eye on their teams.

You may think Jack's contract is terrible, but apparently Toronto doesn't since they just signed him to it...That would be a bad case of buyer's remorse. If we were going to get Jack, we'd probably want to trade one of our guards so that we could actually use him, unless the trade assumes one of our top 3 guards is injured.

 

[Admin´s Grandma]

Boobie-Z+crap <-> Amare Stoudemire

Roll with that. Don´t buy Z back.

 

[Giambiwannabe7]

Boobie-Z+crap <-> Amare Stoudemire

Roll with that. Don´t buy Z back.

I'd jump all over that deal, I just doubt Kerr would. My only worry is with Amare's detatched retina. From what I've read, a person is far more likely to have it happen again than they were a first time. Factor in the type of player he is and it's a bit of a red flag for a guy who will be commanding max type money.

Plus, why not buy Z back? We'd have a spot for him on the roster and he'd definitely have a role.