2012 Presidential Election

[KI4MVP]

First of all, I said the last paragraph was something out of context with the discussion at hand.

Secondly, 60 Democrats ... 60 votes ... Senate rules permit a senator, or a series of senators, to speak for as long as they wish and on any topic they choose, unless "three-fifths of the Senators duly chosen and sworn"[44] (usually 60 out of 100 senators) brings debate to a close by invoking cloture under Senate Rule XXII. The Democrats could have passed a budget if they wanted to. They decided they had more important things on their agenda. They needed NO Republicans.

How willing were Democrats to negotiate a budget? The only things the Senate did was vote down Obama's budget 99-0 and refuse to look at the House's passed bills.

the democrats never had 60 senators under obama

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/111th_U...gress#Senate_2

[cavsfan1985]

I just watched 2016 Obama America. I realize there is some bias in the movie. But anyone on the fence should look at watching it.

[Doc Shakalou]

Good thing there is no voter fraud, right? This is from a family in Ormond Beach who used to go to the same church when I lived in Daytona. I have no reason to believe this would be made up.

The following is an account of what happened to my daughter, Jensen xxxxxx, who tried to vote on Saturday, November 3rd at 10:15am at the Ormond Beach Library.

Two men were walking around the campus of Daytona State College one October afternoon in Daytona Beach, Florida carrying clip boards asking students if they would like to register to vote. They were even allowed into my daughter's college Math class to recruit voters. My daughter who turned 18 in May agreed to do it because they claimed it would only take a few minutes. As she filled out the form the person told her she could not choose to be independent. The man told her she was required to choose Democrat or Republican. She believed the person so she wrote Republican down. The person acted disgusted and said, "Ew, REPUBLICAN?"

Saturday, November 3rd at 10:15am my daughter went to the Ormond Beach Library for early voting in Florida. When she got up to the front of the line and was ready to vote they informed her she had already voted at the City Island location in Daytona Beach. She was shocked to say the least. She showed her driver's license and they checked her signature and it did not match the one someone signed at City Island. They finally let her vote which can no more than just cancel out the forged vote.

Furthermore anyone can get a credit card in a fake name or a neighborhood association and that is all that is required according to the sample ballot. This is an outrage! Voter integrity has been completely lost for all parties and for independents as well! Please guide me on how to get this fraud publicized! Thank you!

Sincerely,
Cindy xxxxx

GOP registration worker charged with voter fraud
By Michael Isikoff, NBC News
A campaign worker linked to a controversial Republican consulting firm has been arrested in Virginia and charged with throwing voter registration forms into a dumpster.
The suspect, Colin Small, 31, was described by a local law enforcement official as a "supervisor" in a Republican Party financed operation to register voters in Rockingham County in rural Virginia, a key swing state in the Nov. 6 election. He was arrested after a local business owner in the same Harrisonburg, Va., shopping center where the local GOP campaign headquarters is located spotted Small tossing a bag into the trash, according to a statement Thursday by the Rockingham County Sheriff’s office. The bag was later found to contain eight voter registration forms, it said. The arrest was reported Thursday night by WWBT-TV in Richmond.

The case comes on the heels of a controversy last month over the activities of Strategic Allied Consulting, an Arizona based consulting firm that was paid $3 million by the Republican National Committee this year to register voters in five battleground states, including Virginia. The firm, run by veteran GOP operative Nathan Sproul, was recently fired by the RNC following reports that its workers had submitted hundreds of suspicious voter registration forms in Florida.

Not to mention the poll watchers they're sending out to lie to incoming voters.

[cavsfan1985]

you never proved me wrong, I have never once said most people will see tax increases, I have said many and have said a large percentage. not most, just a large percentage of people who are voting for Romney expecting a tax cut will get hit with a stealth tax hike if he is elected.

As for the 100k/year figure you just cited. What do you think the average salary of a small business owner is? It's exactly $100/year. The average small business owner will get a tax hike from this tax cut that is supposed to be designed to help small business owners. Am I really the only person here who sees a problem with that?



The problem here is the clear stated purpose of Romney's plan is to help small business. I'm not some fringe case, I'm the stated prime target for the supposed tax relief.

The issue I have with statement is you speak with your ideas like they are absolute truths. We don't know if Mitts plan will work, or it won't work. I will concede that. But is Obamacare not a tax on small business? Is a country more in debt good for small business owners? If you want to be pro Obama based on Obamacare, or social issues I can respect your position. But saying Obama is better for the economy I can not agree. I imagin you being a small business owner you have some backing in basic economics and finance. Spend money you don't have is not the answer. We tired it for the last 12 years under Bush and Obama, it does not work. What works is letting the private sector work, and the government getting out of the way. I am sure you could grow your business with less government control and regulation. Am I right?

[KI4MVP]

The issue I have with statement is you speak with your ideas like they are absolute truths. We don't know if Mitts plan will work, or it won't work. I will concede that. But is Obamacare not a tax on small business? Is a country more in debt good for small business owners? If you want to be pro Obama based on Obamacare, or social issues I can respect your position. But saying Obama is better for the economy I can not agree. I imagin you being a small business owner you have some backing in basic economics and finance. Spend money you don't have is not the answer. We tired it for the last 12 years under Bush and Obama, it does not work. What works is letting the private sector work, and the government getting out of the way. I am sure you could grow your business with less government control and regulation. Am I right?

we know mitts plan won't work because his math doesn't add up.

obamacare will let me provide healthcare to my employees, something I want to do, but can't afford right now because of preexisting conditions.

[southernflyer]

the democrats never had 60 senators under obama

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/111th_U...gress#Senate_2

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/extra/fe...ken_07-02.html

Although the voting for the Minnesota Senate seat was over in November 2008, the result of the election remained in question until this week because the outcome was so close.

The final tally had Franken, a former "Saturday Night Live" cast member and writer, ahead by just 312 votes out of 2.9 million cast.

The Franken win gives Democrats in the U.S. Senate 60 votes, which means they can prevent the Republicans from filibustering bills – an important stalling tactic that can stop bills from becoming law.

If the Democrats never had 60 seats, why was the Brown/Coakley race to replace Ted Kennedy so important?

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2...r-majority.php

Brown Wins Kennedy Seat In Massachusetts, Erasing Democrats' 60-Seat Super Majority

[KI4MVP]

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/extra/fe...ken_07-02.html

but that never actually happened, the democrats never actually had 60 active senators because of illness and death. The link I posted showed how many they had at every point in those two terms.

actually, I gave the link to the wrong spot, here's the correct link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/111th_U...#Party_summary

[gourimoko]

According to the link you posted, the Democrats had a supermajority for several months in 2009 and 2010. Also, IIRC, it is not that the Democrats need 60-seats, but that they need enough to pass a change of rules, requiring a quorum vote and vacant seats alter the arithmetic of such a vote. Even if they had only 57+2, since the Republicans had less than 41, the Democrats could proceed to change the rules, suspend debate, and convene a floor vote on a bill. 60 votes is the number needed if all members are present in the chamber.

Long-story short, the Democrats did indeed have a supermajority. What they didn't have was a consensus within the party. What many people don't realize is that the Democratic Party is a very big tent and there are liberal Democrats, progressive Democrats, fiscally conservative "Blue Dog" Democrats, socially conservative yet labor friendly Democrats, and straight-up DINOs.

p.s.
I agree with just about everything you've been saying over these last 10 pages. Keep it up!

[CourtJester]

How is it just for the goverment to force a religious institution to pay for something that is against their moral beliefs? You might not agree with them, but as you said, it is none of your or the federal government's business. The "freedom of religion bell" is in that pesky little document that the rules of our republic are based off of, except when it doesn't suit liberal feelings and agendas.

I do not understand this argument in the least. Let's say that I own a small business and I'm trying to keep costs down. Suddenly, my religious beliefs do not allow me to support any care related to the heart. You see, the heart is controlled by my God, and I find it morally objectionable to have man mess with God's work in the most sacred part of the body. Therefore, I will comply with the law and offer health insurance. But, health insurance that does not allow for any coverage of any issues relating to the heart including blood pressure medications, hospital stays related to heart problems, etc. My religion keeps my insurance costs down greatly, as any number of providers would offer me much better rates and be able to comply with my religious beliefs.

I'm not asking Catholic Charities to hand out condoms and birth control pills in their paychecks. I do, however, think that it is reasonable that they offer their full-time employees (many, mind you, who are not Catholic) a health care plan that covers basic medical needs like birth control. They can still scoff at them and hold their moral superiority over the heads of their employees without issue. Just give them a basic medical plan that covers what they would get in any other job site.

[cavsfan1985]

I do not understand this argument in the least. Let's say that I own a small business and I'm trying to keep costs down. Suddenly, my religious beliefs do not allow me to support any care related to the heart. You see, the heart is controlled by my God, and I find it morally objectionable to have man mess with God's work in the most sacred part of the body. Therefore, I will comply with the law and offer health insurance. But, health insurance that does not allow for any coverage of any issues relating to the heart including blood pressure medications, hospital stays related to heart problems, etc. My religion keeps my insurance costs down greatly, as any number of providers would offer me much better rates and be able to comply with my religious beliefs.

I'm not asking Catholic Charities to hand out condoms and birth control pills in their paychecks. I do, however, think that it is reasonable that they offer their full-time employees (many, mind you, who are not Catholic) a health care plan that covers basic medical needs like birth control. They can still scoff at them and hold their moral superiority over the heads of their employees without issue. Just give them a basic medical plan that covers what they would get in any other job site.

You can't compare birth control to something you could die from. Becoming pregnant is 100% preventable, health issue are not.

[Walter White]

Hawkins, I'm still baffled by that post. You swayed me to vote for Romney, and I was already voting for him. That's how good that post was.

[Damage]

Unless the polls have been Obama biased, this things over. But it won't matter. In my opinion, there are only 2 ways this awful, political stalemate will cease:

1. Regardless if you agree/disagree with his politics, Obama needs to win by a landslide, forcing the RNC to reconsider their platform and not be 100% influenced by the tea baggers, forcing a 3rd party, something we need desperately.

2. An electoral College split, where the senate would vote for the VP, the house would vote for the President, meaning you'd have a Mitt/Biden ticket. Not only would this be hilarious, it may, may actually break up the party lines.

None of these 2 instances will happen, as Obama will win the electoral by a decent margin but will win the pop vote by a slim margin and not even close to the 10% mandate for a landslide. Obama will take office for his 2nd term, the senate will block everything he wants to do and we'll have 4 years of the same political gridlock bullshit.

In this regard, I wish we were a lot more like Europe (specifically the UK) where they have multiple legit parties & don't give a shit about what religion each candidate holds (most of them are agnostics/atheists anyways).

[BlueSeats626]

The United States is becoming a group of dependent citizens who feel they deserve more and more from the government. You know what John Smith of Jamestown said? No work, no eat. We all want to eat now. We want what we are entitled to because you know we have iPods and are free thinkers and free spirits. But no one wants to work. The food stamp increases under Obama only increase dependency. More government spending only increases dependency. If Americans want some one to take care of them, then vote for Obama. I mean the government certainly has a great track record of taking care of populations. If you believe you know how to best take care of yourself, that hard work is more rewarding than a hand-out, vote for Romney.

An entitlement state?......no way.

[Damage]

I for one find it hard to believe that with the state of the economy and record unemployment, gay marriages and abortion are the more talked about issues. I dont care if the govt takes a wrong decision on both gay marriages and abortions (which ever is wrong in ur view) as long as they can improve the economy significantly. The unemployment numbersthe US uses to calculate unemployment is very flawed.

So civil liberties and basic human rights get trumped by economics? The 2 are not mutually exclusive, as in both are dependent of each other.

[RonG]

An entitlement state?......no way.

I knew better than to click play and did anyways.... fucking train wreck... just can't not look.