2012 Presidential Election

[Randolphkeys]

Every leader has their flaws. For instance, Lincoln wanted to send the slaves back to Africa.

They say it takes 50 years to judge how good a president was.

Many African-Americans, let alone white Americans, thought that was a good idea even into the 1920s. The Democratic Republic of Liberia was established in the 1840's as a possibility for this to happen. Consider the racial tension of the nation... it was left open as an option, but thankfully wasn't necessary.

[BimboColesHair]

So true. I consider Lincoln our greatest leader. My grandfather and I talk about Lincoln and his policies every time we are in the same room. Ohio has traditionally been Republican because of these critical years, but that was 150+ years ago. I doubt Lincoln would have been considered in a Democratic primary, let alone the Republican primary, in our society today. He was deeply opinionated and didn't bow down to rich influences easily. He was deeply principled.

Look at how both Romney and Obama were forced to shape who they were around surveys and polls... I doubt America will see someone like Lincoln in the POTUS role again.

That's my biggest problem with American politics today. We aren't electing the best leader, we are electing the man who conforms best with his party and the businesses that support said party and not the entire country. Recently, mostly with the Republicans, the candidate has to take an extremist stance in order to even gain the nomination for the presidency, which in turn makes a lot of voters skeptical as to what he would actually do if he was elected. Somewhere out there is the perfect President to get this country out of this hell hole, but he will never get the chance in today's political world because the parties are so brain washed and set on their ideas that anything that is different is borderline blasphemy to them. Shame.

And my most liked quality about Lincoln has nothing to do with what he did politically. The amount of balls he showed when half of his own country wanted to see him dead was amazing. Only a few people know what it's like to have a large group of your own country men and women wanting you dead, yet you keep going out in public, refuse to change your stance on issues, and continue to rally your supporters. The only one who rivals Lincoln in that regard in the history of our country is MLK. I couldn't imagine what those two had to go through. But Lincoln is my #2 for favorite presidents, Teddy Roosevelt will always be my favorite.

Edit: Forgot to add my favorite quote about our bipartisan government. "Let us not despair but act. Let us not seek the Republican answer or the Democratic answer but the right answer. Let us not seek to fix the blame for the past - let us accept our own responsibility for the future."

[Randolphkeys]

One of the greatest things written by human hands about the history of U.S. presidents:


http://faceintheblue.wordpress.com/2...d-win-and-why/

Enjoy!

[Chardon]

One of the greatest things written by human hands about the history of U.S. presidents:


http://faceintheblue.wordpress.com/2...d-win-and-why/

Enjoy!

I prefer this:
http://www.sportspickle.com/toplist/...ential-box-off

[Randolphkeys]

I prefer this:
http://www.sportspickle.com/toplist/...ential-box-off

I agree with the top 7, but Taft would be a tub of lard.

[Maximus]

Classic...

Hillary can't make House hearing on Benghazi; busy visiting friends, wine tasting in Australia
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/nat...-1226512913666

[Damage]

One of the greatest things written by human hands about the history of U.S. presidents:


http://faceintheblue.wordpress.com/2...d-win-and-why/

Enjoy!

John Adams

is going out early. Nothing against the man, but portly well-spoken lawyers bring lampoons to a knife fight. It doesn’t end well.

Woodrow Wilson -

A brilliant mind and a delicate physique. Dead very early.
Jimmy Carter and a knife fight is a comical thought to me. Among the first dead would be my suspicion.


For look as to historical rank,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histori..._United_States

[OptimusPrime]

If you want to know who the greatest presidents were according to the court historians, and therefore the history books, they are always the ones who killed the most people.

[Doc Shakalou]

So true. I consider Lincoln our greatest leader. My grandfather and I talk about Lincoln and his policies every time we are in the same room. Ohio has traditionally been Republican because of these critical years, but that was 150+ years ago. I doubt Lincoln would have been considered in a Democratic primary, let alone the Republican primary, in our society today. He was deeply opinionated and didn't bow down to rich influences easily. He was deeply principled.

Look at how both Romney and Obama were forced to shape who they were around surveys and polls... I doubt America will see someone like Lincoln in the POTUS role again.

We could see someone like Lincoln again. There's just going to have to be some serious campaign finance reform first.

[Maximus]

Please sign my petition...

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...ation/xKLK11kk


Keys made one too...

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...nment/Rfg4ZhhC































Just so we are perfectly clear, i'm kidding.

[southernflyer]

We could see someone like Lincoln again. There's just going to have to be some serious campaign finance reform first.

What campaign finance reform do we need?

I know the answer will probably be "get big money out of it", and to a point I agree. In a perfect world, I would like to see (example, random numbers) a cap of $100 per person donation to the Presidential campaign, $25 to a Senate campaign, $20 to a House campaign and $10 to a state or local campaign. Donations could only be made to your potential representatives, not sending $25 to the Senator in Idaho when I am in Florida. In practice that sounds great.

The two problems are 1) those caps prohibit my freedom of speech. If I want to donate $100,000 to a candidate I should be able to. Don't like it, give $100,000 to your candidate. Have it be in the open instead of hiding it behind some group with a patriotic sounding name. and 2) every "reform" creates more of a mess and unintended consequences. If there wasn't a ban for years on outside interests or corporations form contributing/advertising and Citizens United didn't have to sue, we probably wouldn't have all these Super PACswith multi-million budgets that we do now. At least they wouldn't be so centrally organized. Corporations would still send lobbyists to Washington to gain political favors.

What we really need is more debating. Three scripted debates don't do anything to show what the candidates really stand for, just sound bites being thrown back and forth. I would like a debate every two weeks from the end of conventions until the elections. Two hours each debate. Little moderation, more like Lincoln-Douglas. Any candidate that is on a majority of state ballots would be included. After every third debate, America could have a call in vote via phone or text message, and if a candidate/party didn't get 5% of that total, they aren't invited to the next round of debates. The Green, Socialist, Libertarians and anyone who can get on a majority of state ballots for President would be in the first series.

[OptimusPrime]

What campaign finance reform do we need?

I know the answer will probably be "get big money out of it", and to a point I agree. In a perfect world, I would like to see (example, random numbers) a cap of $100 per person donation to the Presidential campaign, $25 to a Senate campaign, $20 to a House campaign and $10 to a state or local campaign. Donations could only be made to your potential representatives, not sending $25 to the Senator in Idaho when I am in Florida. In practice that sounds great.

The two problems are 1) those caps prohibit my freedom of speech. If I want to donate $100,000 to a candidate I should be able to. Don't like it, give $100,000 to your candidate. Have it be in the open instead of hiding it behind some group with a patriotic sounding name. and 2) every "reform" creates more of a mess and unintended consequences. If there wasn't a ban for years on outside interests or corporations form contributing/advertising and Citizens United didn't have to sue, we probably wouldn't have all these Super PACswith multi-million budgets that we do now. At least they wouldn't be so centrally organized. Corporations would still send lobbyists to Washington to gain political favors.

What we really need is more debating. Three scripted debates don't do anything to show what the candidates really stand for, just sound bites being thrown back and forth. I would like a debate every two weeks from the end of conventions until the elections. Two hours each debate. Little moderation, more like Lincoln-Douglas. Any candidate that is on a majority of state ballots would be included. After every third debate, America could have a call in vote via phone or text message, and if a candidate/party didn't get 5% of that total, they aren't invited to the next round of debates. The Green, Socialist, Libertarians and anyone who can get on a majority of state ballots for President would be in the first series.

Excellent points. Campaign finance reform means nothing. The only way to keep special interests from buying politicians is to take away the government's power to grant them favors. That would also take away their ability to centrally plan the economy though, so people have been indoctrinated not to like that idea.

[Tecumseh]

Israel going after Hamas, Libya interrogations, CIA scandal, falling stock market, "fiscal cliff," large debt. Fun times.

[cavsfan1985]

This thread has taken a noticeable nose dive sense the election. I used to be to get on here and have a good discussion on important points. It has turned into this is my view, and shove it down everyone throat.

Israel going after Hamas, Libya interrogations, CIA scandal, falling stock market, "fiscal cliff," large debt. Fun times.

These are the issues we should be talking about. This fiscal cliff is the real deal, who knows what is going to happen in Israel. The rest of this year, and 1st Q next year could be very rocky, and bad for the country. I hope Obama is ready to be the mediator we need in congress, and push both sides to meet in the middle and give on both sides. SO far it has seemed like his approach is, my way, or I will lead the country to the cliff. I hope I am wrong, and both sides get their heads out of their ass and do whats best for the long-tern of this country.

I am also getting annoyed, that 250K/year is the sticking point for who is rich and who is not rich. I think taxes should only increase on those over 500K and up. 250K for a family is not much for a middle class family in NY, or Cali.

[Chardon]

Israel going after Hamas, Libya interrogations, CIA scandal, falling stock market, "fiscal cliff," large debt. Fun times.

Yeah, but, we can totally get free birth control from the Government! That alone triumphs over everything!

This thread has taken a noticeable nose dive sense the election. I used to be to get on here and have a good discussion on important points. It has turned into this is my view, and shove it down everyone throat.



These are the issues we should be talking about. This fiscal cliff is the real deal, who knows what is going to happen in Israel. The rest of this year, and 1st Q next year could be very rocky, and bad for the country. I hope Obama is ready to be the mediator we need in congress, and push both sides to meet in the middle and give on both sides. SO far it has seemed like his approach is, my way, or I will lead the country to the cliff. I hope I am wrong, and both sides get their heads out of their ass and do whats best for the long-tern of this country.

I am also getting annoyed, that 250K/year is the sticking point for who is rich and who is not rich. I think taxes should only increase on those over 500K and up. 250K for a family is not much for a middle class family in NY, or Cali.

Don't you understand? Every rich person is Bill Gates rich. What do you think the rich people do with that money? Own a business employing people? Think about the social issues like free weed man!

But on the reals, if I had enough money I wouldn't miss, I would go in on LULU, PVH, and VFC.