The Official Game of Thrones [A Song of Ice and Fire] Thread

[CardiacCavs]

I agree. There are just so many potential stories and plot lines that could exist in a rebellion prequel. All those I mentioned I thought of at the top of my head. I'm sure there are dozens of other really interesting places they could go with it. It would be interesting to see how they would deal with Aegon supposedly getting his head bashed against the wall, but in book 5 "Aegon" returns at the head of a mercenary army. If they were to make this prequel before GRRM finishes the books, they would have to find a way to write around this unresolved storyline.

[Jack Brickman]

I agree. There are just so many potential stories and plot lines that could exist in a rebellion prequel. All those I mentioned I thought of at the top of my head. I'm sure there are dozens of other really interesting places they could go with it. It would be interesting to see how they would deal with Aegon supposedly getting his head bashed against the wall, but in book 5 "Aegon" returns at the head of a mercenary army. If they were to make this prequel before GRRM finishes the books, they would have to find a way to write around this unresolved storyline.

They could just not show Varys pulling the switcheroo, provided that story is true to begin with.

I probably could have blacked that part out, but I didn't actually spoil anything, so I think I'm good.

[Chris]

I don't like a series about Robert's Rebellion (is there a better term for this war? I hate "Robert's Rebellion") because it ruins the intrigue and mystery of the events. Many great epic stories have an event like this that precursors the actual events of the story, and is constantly referenced and plays a significant role in what develops over the course of the plot. For ASOIAF, that event is indeed Robert's Rebellion. I don't really read LOTR but I'm sure there is some big shit war or something that serves this purpose in the mythos as well. Trying to think of more examples but it's late.

My point is by showing it, you kind of ruin the mystique.

[Pyro]

What the fuck is Dunk and Egg?

[Rich]

Don't want to think about some prequel spin-off to "fill the hole" because that means the show will have caught to the books and that can't happen!

Write, fat man.

[kosis]

Don't want to think about some prequel spin-off to "fill the hole" because that means the show will have caught to the books and that can't happen!

Write, fat man.

I know we've already speculated ad nauseum in this thread... but with GRRM's new HBO deal which is going to pull him in even more directions, I'm finding it hard to believe he'll finish in time. Many speculate that he won't finish the books and will give HBO the guidelines and let them finish it off (I wouldn't go that far). I think it's a reality we'll have to face.

PS. When mentioning the potential adaptation of Dunk & Egg, I'm pretty sure that he said there would not be a Robert's Rebellion spin-off. You do have to wonder why they shot the Brandon Stark thing though. To be used in a future episode perhaps?

[Jack Brickman]

I think it really depends on the level of Martin's involvement. With Game of Thrones he's available, but it's not as if he's on set every day working with the cast and crew. He writes an episode a season and is probably marginally involved in the season as a whole. Unless Martin is actually running any new show he signs up for (which is unlikely as he has no experience in anything other than writing), I don't see it taking up all that much of his time.

In addition, I don't think Martin will want HBO to finish his series for him. He has to know that A Song of Ice and Fire is essentially his legacy. If he doesn't finish it, his career will probably be considered by most fans to have been a failure. I doubt he's oblivious to this. No one wants to end up like Jordan with The Wheel of Time.

[cafemerald]

Many speculate that he won't finish the books and will give HBO the guidelines and let them finish it off (I wouldn't go that far). I think it's a reality we'll have to face.

I thought they already did this.

[Jack Brickman]

I thought they already did this.

I think he told the showrunners how he planned to end it but I don't think he's given them a detailed event guideline or anything, which he will have to do if and when the show surpasses the books.

[kosis]

Right, I'm speculating but I assume he's given them a basic skeleton in terms of who survives and dies and how the relationships/plotlines might unfold so that the showrunners can plan accordingly with current seasons. I was referring to the suggestion that he won't finish them at all because he's over the ASOIAF mythos and will let the show writers finish it for him. I think that's extreme and Jack is right in the sense that it would destroy his legacy. Having the show surpass the book and ruin the forthcoming novels would be terrible as well though.

On a related note, the knowledge that the showrunners have can give hints into what awaits us in the books. Whatever happens with Talisa this year can give major hints as to the future importance (or lack thereof) of Jeyne Westerling, for example. Should be interesting.

[Chris]

I can't be the only one who will throw myself off the 480 bridge if I have to watch the end of the series on HBO and not get to read an epic 1000+ page novel.

Sorry, as good as this show is, GRRM is the master of this story and his books are epic as fuck. The TV show is like A Song of Ice and Fire...Lite. It's cool, but pales in comparison to the books. God, I will be so fucking mad if he does not finish these books. If the show catches up, which is pretty likely at this point, I say they either 1) take a break from it which is hard to do or 2) do a spinoff, as much as it might suck.

Anything is preferable to letting HBO finish this masterpiece story.

I don't see why Martin isn't more motivated to get this shit done. Like Jack said, it's his legacy. if he doesn't finish the books, or has to have HBO hold his dick and finish it for him, it will mar his legacy forever. If he DOES finish them, and the ending is even relatively well received...he will go down as modern Tolkien. Take your pick, George.

[The Hill]

Just want people to know that the talk about the "other" Westerosi series being a fill-in for a hole in the series is purely speculation on my part. In fact, there doesn't seem to be much more to it other than "we've talked about it."

Martin knows that his legacy is how he sticks the landing in these books. I listened to a 2011 interview he did with NPR (he discusses this at the 30-minute mark), and he said that his first priority is finishing the books. While he would like to spend more time on the series, he is mostly a consultant (gives approval on casting, writes one script per season, acts as executive producer for one episode - that's it). He acknowledges that being more involved with the series would be a full-time job, and he already has one of those in writing ASOIAF.

I think he is back to his normal pace for writing. The first three books had two-year gaps between them. Books 4 and 5 had large gaps between releases, but those books had very specific issues he was trying to resolve. Feast for Crows had too much story, so he had to scrap a bunch of it and set it aside for Dance with Dragons, and then go back to finishing Feast. Then when he got to Dance with Dragons, he had the Meereneese Knot to work through. I read somewhere that he is already more than half-finished with the next book, and a 2014 release is realistic.

I'm in the camp of waiting as long as necessary in order to ensure he does this right, instead of him doing it quickly. Compare it to the Cavs rebuild -- do you want to rush it and be good, or do you want take the methodical route and be the best? Of course, he is getting up there in years, so I understand that worry.

[Chris]

Just want people to know that the talk about the "other" Westerosi series being a fill-in for a hole in the series is purely speculation on my part. In fact, there doesn't seem to be much more to it other than "we've talked about it."

Martin knows that his legacy is how he sticks the landing in these books. I listened to a 2011 interview he did with NPR (he discusses this at the 30-minute mark), and he said that his first priority is finishing the books. While he would like to spend more time on the series, he is mostly a consultant (gives approval on casting, writes one script per season, acts as executive producer for one episode - that's it). He acknowledges that being more involved with the series would be a full-time job, and he already has one of those in writing ASOIAF.

I think he is back to his normal pace for writing. The first three books had two-year gaps between them. Books 4 and 5 had large gaps between releases, but those books had very specific issues he was trying to resolve. Feast for Crows had too much story, so he had to scrap a bunch of it and set it aside for Dance with Dragons, and then go back to finishing Feast. Then when he got to Dance with Dragons, he had the Meereneese Knot to work through. I read somewhere that he is already more than half-finished with the next book, and a 2014 release is realistic.

I'm in the camp of waiting as long as necessary in order to ensure he does this right, instead of him doing it quickly. Compare it to the Cavs rebuild -- do you want to rush it and be good, or do you want take the methodical route and be the best? Of course, he is getting up there in years, so I understand that worry.

I don't care if it takes him forever. I just want it to be finished before he fucking dies.

Good post but there is a 0.0% chance he is halfway done with TWOW. Sorry, if you've got a source I'd love to see it. it might make me sleep easier.

[The Hill]

My worry is that I read that he's halfway done somewhere in this thread. I've been reading so much now that I'm done that it all blurs together. Not really sure where I saw it, to be honest.

However, on Wiki of Ice and Fire it says that Martin had 200 pages complete in March 2012. I think 300 pages in a year is realistic. And so does Martin, who says that he can finish the next book in three years (making a 2014 release date) if he's writing at a good pace.

"Hopefully, the last two books will go a little quicker than this one has, but that doesn't mean they're going to be quick," says Martin. "Realistically, it's going to take me three years to finish the next one at a good pace. I hope it doesn't take me six years like this last one has. I have a million ideas. I have some other novels I want to write. I have a lot of short stories – I love the short story. But I've got to finish this first and then I'll decide what I'm inspired by at that point. If I'm not in some old folks' home."

SOURCE

So I think it is entirely reasonable to assume he's at 500 pages right now. But ultimately, as Martin has said in the past, it'll be done when it's done.

[Chris]

500 manuscript pages, maybe.

Which is really only 1/3rd.

I'm trying to be optimistic...but goddam...