Anderson Varejao

[Witness_JJ]

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap...;_If_Available

Executive: Varejao ‘The Top Target’ If Available
Dec 02, 2012 1:01 PM EST


As Cleveland Cavaliers forward Anderson Varejao continues to put up big numbers, his rise has left the organization in a difficult position. The Cavaliers are battling a question: Should we trade him or keep him?

“If he’s available, it goes without saying a lot of teams will want in,” one executive said. “He would be the top target.”

If the Cavaliers decide to trade Varejao, they want young, elite-level talent with high upside in return. Still, given the way the 30-year-old has blossomed over the past two seasons, Cleveland could very well be smart to keep him and his reasonable contract in the fold.

Across the NBA, players and coaches have had high praise for Varejao. Just last week, LeBron James said he’s been impressed with Varejao’s development.

“I think he’s probably more offensive-minded now,” Memphis Grizzlies coach Lionel Hollins said. “They play through him a lot more, so he has a lot more opportunities.

Varejao is averaging 15.1 points, 15.3 rebounds and 3.3 assists and is considered an All-Star candidate this season.

Via Jason Lloyd/Akron Beacon Journal
Anderson Varejao, LeBron James, Cleveland Cavaliers, NBA, NBA Misc Rumor
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[demonmt]

You do realize that the market for Andy is actually rather small in reality don't you?

While he is a stud, and everyone would love to have him, it is going to be near impossible to get a package the likes of which you described because of his age.

He is too old for a rebuilding team (who is likely to have young talent and high picks) to want to trade for. Yet most contending teams in win now mode who would be most likely to trade for him don't have the type of high ceiling young talent and lottery picks to offer.

If Andy were 26/27 there would be a much bigger field of teams willing to offer the kind of package the Cavs want.

It is amazing to me that there as so many people chomping at the bit to trade a guy who is playing at an elite level, and could continue to do so for the next 4-5 years.

Besides, I got news for the people that think our core's prime is 3-4 years from now. If we haven't made a substantial push towards the finals (at least conference finals) in the next 4-5 years, then the core is getting blown up anyway. Let Andy stick around to help them get there instead of getting back a fraction of his value in return in a trade.

Birdy, as you quoted, I was referring only to deals with the right combo of lottery pick(s) and/or young talent. I am very aware of the size of Andy's potential market (a handful of teams) and the limitations on a trade due to his age. You're right "most" contending teams do not have what we are looking for in terms of assets, but some do. Three (or more) team deals are possible as well. I guarantee with the way Andy is playing (without needing the ball in his hand to be effective, at an already scarce position, and extremely consistently) all contending team GMs with holes/underperformers at either big position are and will be furiously trying to figure out a way to pry Andy from Grant's competent grasp by the trade deadline.

I am not one who is "chomping at the bit" to trade Andy, and I honestly haven't seen many (or any) Cavs fans who are. Most are in two groups: A-trade Andy (if, and only if) a package of lottery picks/young talent is possible because he is playing out of his mind; and B-Keep Andy because he is playing out of his mind. I subscribe to the former group because I believe, that our long term return on Andy (including all potential future playing/chemistry/leadership/teaching younger players, etc.) will be maximized by trading him this year and getting young players with great upside potential in return.

What's amazing to me is the uncanny ability of those who can see into the future and predict with certainty that Andy will be playing at an All-Start level until he's thirty-f'ing-seven (a little exageration on my end). Our core is AT LEAST 3-4 years away from their prime. Prime is not when the Cavs are making the playoffs or even winning a playoff series, but when our team's core players are all playing at or very near their individual and collective max potential. I fully expect them to make these substantial steps (like making the playoffs/winning a series etc.) within the next 4-5 years

[ArchieBunker7]

What's amazing to me is the uncanny ability of those who can see into the future and predict with certainty that Andy will be playing at an All-Start level until he's thirty-f'ing-seven (a little exageration on my end).

And equally impressive to me is the prognosticators on the other end of the spectrum that have zero doubt this is Andy's peak and he will assuredly come crashing down from here on out. The truth is, none of us knows exactly where the rest of his career will go. There is risk involved with any move made or in simply keeping him in hopes he will still be a major factor when this team is contending. You could trade him now, and the players you get bust and you end up with a pick in a weak draft(like TT). He plays until he's thirty-f'ing-seven(exageration mind you) at a high level and wins multiple rings with the team he was traded to. Or vice versa. Or any one of a bunch of other scenarios shake out. GM's don't have the beauty of hindsight like us fans will 3 years from now.

[JSS2306]

And equally impressive to me is the prognosticators on the other end of the spectrum that have zero doubt this is Andy's peak and he will assuredly come crashing down from here on out. The truth is, none of us knows exactly where the rest of his career will go. There is risk involved with any move made or in simply keeping him in hopes he will still be a major factor when this team is contending. You could trade him now, and the players you get bust and you end up with a pick in a weak draft(like TT). He plays until he's thirty-f'ing-seven(exageration mind you) at a high level and wins multiple rings with the team he was traded to. Or vice versa. Or any one of a bunch of other scenarios shake out. GM's don't have the beauty of hindsight like us fans will 3 years from now.

The most important aspect of keeping Andy around is to help the development of our already young front court. If Zeller and TT are to develop properly they need Andy. I can already see Zeller embodying what Andy stands for. He's constantly moving without the ball and getting into good positions. He's improving every game. I think Andy provides a great foundation of fundamentals from which Zeller and even TT can build themselves on.

I've never heard of fans clamoring to trade their star player for what appears to be non existent information that we are going to really make out in some hypothetical deal.

[Anglefan]

There's no possible deal out there to be made. Only contenders want him and no contender has anywhere near what we would require in return. There's just not going to be anything there.

[demonmt]

And equally impressive to me is the prognosticators on the other end of the spectrum that have zero doubt this is Andy's peak and he will assuredly come crashing down from here on out. The truth is, none of us knows exactly where the rest of his career will go. There is risk involved with any move made or in simply keeping him in hopes he will still be a major factor when this team is contending. You could trade him now, and the players you get bust and you end up with a pick in a weak draft(like TT). He plays until he's thirty-f'ing-seven(exageration mind you) at a high level and wins multiple rings with the team he was traded to. Or vice versa. Or any one of a bunch of other scenarios shake out. GM's don't have the beauty of hindsight like us fans will 3 years from now.

I completely agree: We have a certain commodity now in Andy with an uncertain future. But the "commodity" is at its absolute highest potential value. If a good deal is available and we don't trade him, we lose out on those assets while betting on Andy's longevity, which with his injury history I don't think we can afford to be overly optimistic about. I don't know if you're suggesting that I am one of these prognosticators, but I have in no way said nor do I believe that Andy's value will immediately crash after this year. I merely believe that it is more likely that he will play at or near this level for 2-3 years and then begin to decline. And I know for a fact that Andy cannot be a contributing member of our core for a good part, if not the majority, of the rest of the core's prime unless you think he will play into his mid 40s. I would rather bet on young players/lottery pick development than on Andy's health/prolonged success when taking the extreme youth of our core into account. If we keep Andy and he continues to play at a high level until he's thirty-f'ing-seven I still feel this way because at this point, Kyrie and Dion are 27, TT is 28, Tyler is 29, and our lottery pick is around 26. They are all in the very middle or beginning of what should be their primes and Andy is gone.

I'd would love to see Andy win rings with or without us. What he does after we (theoretically) trade him is completely inconsequential. It's all about his current value and if trading him will return more value in future picks/players (as they are valued now) than what he can provide us in the future. In comparing the two we have to consider the future contributions of each option and the duration of these contributions. GM's don't have the beauty of hindsight, but they do have the ability to objectively weigh options and choose the one with higher value.

[demonmt]

I've never heard of fans clamoring to trade their star player for what appears to be non existent information that we are going to really make out in some hypothetical deal.

Teams can have more than one "star", and sometimes, for the right deal, these players are traded.

Also, there is all this talk about Andy teaching younger guys. There is no evidence that without a perfect mentor on their team a player can't develop to their potential. Their development can come from, (yes) players on their team, coaches, or even players and coaches unaffiliated with their teams that they train with. I agree that it is a big plus that should be considered with Andy, but I don't think it should be a dealbreaker. We will hopefully have some skilled veteran on our team in the near future to teach our big men.

[Baseline Runner]

Fuck it.

Keep Andy. Start Zeller next to him. See if Zeller develops into the perfect complement to our All-Star C/F. Get Kyrie back. Hope that he and Dion grow and develop together the way we hope. Tristan as our first big off the bench. Draft the best SF we can with our own pick (Shabazz? Porter? Don't be afraid to use other assets to move up if the opportunity presents itself). Gee becomes another solid sub. Fill in the rest.

Boom. Starting next year the pieces are all in place to contend before most thought possible as the young guys develop. Andy plays for 6-7 years at a high level. Now, everything would have to go perfectly for us for this to actually work, especially in terms of player development, draft position, and Andy being a fine wine, but it's a hell of a fantasy.

Sounds like a great plan. It is much less of a long shot than hoping to get a player of Andy's caliber in return with a top 10 draft pick. The OKC trade is just a terrible trade, really any trade at this point is a terrible trade unless it is offering an elite player in return (and believe it or not there is risks with other players around the league too, just look at what happened to Bynum, but how many people would have jumped to trade Varejao for Bynum last offseason).

[MirORich]

San Antonio: They have possibly this one year or may be this year or next to still get one more ring. Kawhi Leonard is a big part of what they do but when Duncan and Ginobli are gone, he's not going to be a #1 or #2 guy. Is there even a small chance SAS would consider Kawhi for Andy and Miles/Casspi and 2nd round pick?

OKC: It's been discussed ad nauseaum already, but if OKC wants him badly and the Cavs decide to listen to offers, they are the contender with most obvious package to build an Andy trade around.

Houston: Morey is an advanced stats guy. Andy is his type of player. They have a glut of young PF's(Patterson, Morris, Terrence Jones) One of those guys plus a future 1st is at least worth considering.

Philly With Evan Turner really coming on of late, could Philly be willing to do a Andy/Casspi for Thad Young + a future first/or Moultrie?

Not saying there are many homerun deals out there, but as the playoff picture crystallizes, there will be some deal that are viable and worthy of consideration.

Teams can have more than one "star", and sometimes, for the right deal, these players are traded.

Also, there is all this talk about Andy teaching younger guys. There is no evidence that without a perfect mentor on their team a player can't develop to their potential. Their development can come from, (yes) players on their team, coaches, or even players and coaches unaffiliated with their teams that they train with. I agree that it is a big plus that should be considered with Andy, but I don't think it should be a dealbreaker. We will hopefully have some skilled veteran on our team in the near future to teach our big men.

[Baseline Runner]

Not saying there are many homerun deals out there, but as the playoff picture crystallizes, there will be some deal that are viable and worthy of consideration.

No they are not viable, they all sound horrendous.

[Jack Brickman]

San Antonio: They have possibly this one year or may be this year or next to still get one more ring. Kawhi Leonard is a big part of what they do but when Duncan and Ginobli are gone, he's not going to be a #1 or #2 guy. Is there even a small chance SAS would consider Kawhi for Andy and Miles/Casspi and 2nd round pick?

I liked Leonard a lot going into the draft last year and I think he'll be a good player, but Kawhi Leonard for Andy and you think WE would have to throw in more? There's no way the Cavs would trade Andy for Leonard straight up, let alone throw in more to sweeten the deal.

OKC is really the only contender that I think would be both interested in Varejao and have enough to make an offer. Maybe Denver would be added to that list as well, as they have a pretty packed roster and some decent talent.

[Mdog1]

There's no possible deal out there to be made. Only contenders want him and no contender has anywhere near what we would require in return. There's just not going to be anything there.

Chicago, OKC, Jazz, are the three teams that are owed potential lotto picks.

Chicago is owed Charlotte's,
OKC is owed Toronto's,
Jazz are owed GSW's.

I think we can rule out the Jazz, unless they don't think they can re-sign Millsap.
We can also pretty much rule out Chicago, unless we absorb Boozers corpse, but given the history there I think we can call that one off as well lol Maybe Gibson/Hinrich/TPE for Andy/Boobie.

Andy + Boobie = 13,160,514
Gibson + Hinrich = 6,096,811 + the TPE to match Boobie's salary so basically Chi would have to absorb about 2 million.

Not really sure if that works because the trade machine won't let me trade Hinrich, or the TPE.

I guess you're right it's pretty much OKC or bust, unless Chicago wants the two best C's in the East on their team.

[Chris]

Only potential partner I see is OKC and one of their young players + TOR pick.

I really see nothing else.

["Boobie" Gibson]

Only potential partner I see is OKC and one of their young players + TOR pick.

I really see nothing else.

That's 1 more team than I see, so good for you.

[STAT]

You're not hipster enough to understand.

Clearly.