The Brandon Weeden Thread

[polska2211]

I was going to write out a retort, but Shakalu wrote my exact thoughts.

[MoFlo]

I think it's somewhat alarming that I have to tell you why a quarterback with bad stats has bad stats right now, though, when you claim to be an expert on him. Can't say I claim to be a guru, but I've seen enough football to know that a good quarterback or even an average one is not ranked in the bottom 2 of QBs in the league. Just not how it works.

I don't know where he ranked at any point during this stretch, but Peyton Manning's QB ratings through his rookie season (Weeden's in () ):

58.6 (5.1)
51.1 (114.9)
39.3 (65.8)
63.2 (59.8)
66.8 (84.3)
62.6 (92.7)
117.5 (96.0)
69.2 (55.9)
47.7 (44.4)
81.3
48.6
105.0
79.1
128.7
84.9
56.6

Peyton had all of 5 games with a QB rating of 80+ in his rookie season. Weeden has 4 now.

[Chris]

Thanks MoFlo, but that means Peyton wasn't a very good QB at that point in time, which I think is fair to say about Weeden.

@Doc, good post- I think I just adopt a more skeptical wait-and-see attitude than most of you. I'm sure I will check the Waiters thread in General Cavs and see people anointing him a Hall of Fame bust. That just isn't me and you know me well enough by now, I assume. I'll give credit where it's due. I've made positive posts about Weeden during his highs this season and have been excited with the rest of you. He hasn't been very good lately and he has a ton of work to do especially for a QB going on 30 next season. He's far from a sure thing, and I know it's more fun to be optimistic and label him "our guy" but once again, that just isn't how I operate.

You won't ever see me advocating Colt McCoy over him, or some shit like that. I try to be fair.

[BabyFormula]

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/inde...e_banne_1.html

"It's right to put Brandon on the list of important things we have to figure out and we have seven games left to do that," Banner said. "It's an extremely important question for this organization to get right."

With the Browns 2-7 at the bye, they're likely to end up with a high enough pick to draft a premier quarterback, such as Matt Barkley of USC and Geno Smith of West Virginia, which makes the last final seven games pivotal.

"The only reason I'm leaving the door open is, you could think he's the right answer and a year from now go, "Oh, gee, I thought he was but he isn't,' " Banner said. "So it's not like you're etching it in stone, but you certainly have to at least for your next off-season plan, make a determination as to whether in two years from now, when we're trying to be a championship-caliber team, is he good enough to lead us there?"

Banner said Weeden's age -- he'll be 30 in their first full season -- isn't as much a factor as his ability.

"In a perfect world he isn't 30, but you've got to deal with reality," Banner said. "It's not a yes or no because of his age, it's a yes or no because of how good he is or how good he's going to become."

He said he'll rely on the current staff to evaluate Weeden's potential and that they'll weigh factors such as youth at the skill positions.

"Anybody can see he throws the ball well," Banner said. "The more crucial evaluations are the other issues that drive the best quarterbacks in the league, such as huddle presence, feel, intelligence, and leadership.

Banner said the quarterback decision is tied for No. 2 with general manager and behind head coach as the most important decisions a team must make.

"You can't win big without a great coach and a great quarterback," he said. "And frankly, if you have a great enough coach and quarterback, you can afford to make a few more personnel mistakes. You've got to lock them in."

Interpret those quotes however you would like. To me it says they're very unsure of if he is their guy for the same reasons someone like me is, and if he does not show significant improvement they're going to move on from him as soon as this draft. I would be highly surprised if they don't select a QB in the first round especially if they are selecting 1 or 2 overall.

[JMcCurry08]

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/inde...e_banne_1.html



Interpret those quotes however you would like. To me it says they're very unsure of if he is their guy for the same reasons someone like me is, and if he does not show significant improvement they're going to move on from him as soon as this draft. I would be highly surprised if they don't select a QB in the first round especially if they are selecting 1 or 2 overall.

Banner has never been a scout, i dont want him making decisions on who our QB should be

[I-77 NORTH]

I already don't like Joe Banner. Seems very pessimistic and closed minded. He should let the GM handle the decision-making of whether a QB should be selected in next years draft or not. We still have a solid 7 weeks to determine if Brandon Weeden is our guy going forward. It's unfair to begin to looking into another QB at this point, especially when we've just hit our bye week.

[Chardon]

I already don't like Joe Banner. Seems very pessimistic and closed minded. He should let the GM handle the decision-making of whether a QB should be selected in next years draft or not. We still have a solid 7 weeks to determine if Brandon Weeden is our guy going forward. It's unfair to begin to looking into another QB at this point, especially when we've just hit our bye week.

I hear he is a genius with numbers, but you don't let him touch the football side of it.

[Malt]

I already don't like Joe Banner. Seems very pessimistic and closed minded. He should let the GM handle the decision-making of whether a QB should be selected in next years draft or not. We still have a solid 7 weeks to determine if Brandon Weeden is our guy going forward. It's unfair to begin to looking into another QB at this point, especially when we've just hit our bye week.

I don't see anything wrong with what Banner said. He was likely responding to a question about how the Browns feel about Weeden, and he's hedging his bet. Why guarantee anything right now? Banner and Haslam have consistently said they will wait until this offseason before making any evaluations. There's also no indication he's not going to leave that evaluation up to the GM.

I agree Banner isn't the guy to be making that call, and I fully expect Haslam to know that, he knows Banner better than any of us. We'll see how it plays out, but I'd say Weeden being our starting QB next year, and the Browns not drafting a QB in the first round this year, is a very safe bet.

[RappSoda]

Anyone with an issue with what Banner said is probably a child. Any professional knows that you don't make determinations you're not sure you can keep. Not to mention that in being in a work environment, all eyes are wide open all of the time. I'd be more upset if the Browns weren't considering a QB.. You can't just shut down a possibility because there is someone there. What if the available QB is better?

[Spectre]

I honestly don't understand why so many people are tweaked reading Banner's comments. The article flat out says Banner is going to rely on our football people in the organization to evaluate Weeden. I love most of what he's saying... he gets it.

"Anybody can see he throws the ball well," Banner said. "The more crucial evaluations are the other issues that drive the best quarterbacks in the league, such as huddle presence, feel, intelligence, and leadership.

That's how you should evaluate the QB position. The fact that Weeden spins it well is the main reason all his supporters want to stick with him but it's just a small piece to the puzzle in QB evaluation. Quite frankly, Weeden has struggled in a ton of other areas. What would concern me more is if Banner came out and said, "Anybody can see he throws the ball well. That's all we're looking for from him right now even though he's 29." He still has 7 games to improve but if he doesn't, we absolutely need to evaluate him (especially with a Top 5 pick). It plays right into another of his comments that is just a money quote:

"You can't win big without a great coach and a great quarterback," he said. "And frankly, if you have a great enough coach and quarterback, you can afford to make a few more personnel mistakes. You've got to lock them in."

I bolded "win big" because that phrase is key to understand why Haslam/Banner are doing this. I know we've been starved for wins so long that even a season over .500 would be sweet ambrosia right now but that's not where their sights are. Their goal is to win the Super Bowl. Super Bowls are won in today's NFL with great QBs, not middle-of-the-pack guys. If Weeden is evaluated as a middle of the pack guy, they need to move on... it's that simple.

The point he makes about personnel mistakes is dead-on too. Look at how putrid the drafts of the Patriots, Colts, Saints, etc. have been in the past few years. Yet, because they had elite QBs, they contended virtually every year. The Colts were 10-6 with Manning in 2010. They lose Manning and they go 2-14. Then, they get Luck and even with a defensive scheme switch (which in Cleveland means 2-3 years of excuses and accepted bad play), they're 6-3 and in the Wild Card hunt. Peyton goes to Denver and their PPG jumps over 10 points with minimal improvements to the supporting cast. It's not a coincidence.

If we had an elite QB, we wouldn't need to worry about having only 3 stud DL instead of 4. We wouldn't need to worry about only having one stud corner or one Pro Bowl caliber LB. We wouldn't need to worry about having only eight Round 1/2 draft picks invested on offense and complaining about how that isn't enough. The guys at the top now seem to get that and seem ready to go balls out every year until they get that franchise stud.

I don't know about you guys, but that doesn't bum me out... that has me excited for how good things will be (and how long they'll stay that way) when they eventually succeed. I'm loving this.

[MoFlo]

Anyone with an issue with what Banner said is probably a child. Any professional knows that you don't make determinations you're not sure you can keep. Not to mention that in being in a work environment, all eyes are wide open all of the time. I'd be more upset if the Browns weren't considering a QB.. You can't just shut down a possibility because there is someone there. What if the available QB is better?

While I agree, I still don't want Banner anywhere near making any personnel decisions..

[b00bie]

So they're saying players on a shitty team will be evaluated over the course of the season and replacements will be talked about?

Breaking news...

[kiji]

I don't see anything wrong with him reviewing the players the GM is leaning towards. I think he probably should be involved in that manner. He's responsible for the decisions of those under him. If he gave free rein and his GM starts drafting Tebows, we will want his ass fired. Now if he's overruling decisions because he saw a workout warrior at the combine that just blew him away, then we have a problem. Up until now, he's made no moves. No use in speculating about how he might dick everything up when he hasn't done anything yet. It's preemptive overreaction. Everything he's done so far indicates that he has a general plan, is not married to the specifics of it, and is avoiding painting himself into a box with his statements. So he's not going to be trying to force something on the count of ego.

Personally, I got the impression that Shurmur clearly doesn't meet what he's looking for in a coach, Heckert is not being ruled out, and Weeden is suitable for now unless he has a meltdown.

[b00bie]

Banner has never been a scout, i dont want him making decisions on who our QB should be

Remind me again where Todd McShay, Mel Kiper and the folks of bleacher report scouted?

[JMcCurry08]

Remind me again where Todd McShay, Mel Kiper and the folks of bleacher report scouted?

I get that they're not always right but i'd rather listen to McShay and Kiper than a guy who has no track record on scouting or personnel decisions