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  1. #1741
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    Default Re: The Brandon Weeden Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JSS2306 View Post
    So because Weeden completed a higher percentage of passes in college translates to Pat Shurmurs offense being the culprit for his woes in the NFL and then you have homers who actually agree with this garbage (no offense). Please... college shotgun can't even be attempted in the NFL.

    If anything, the WCO covered up for Weedens main shortcomings which would be the long ball. He is extremely inaccurate from beyond 20 yards ( which is probably why Pat designed those short routes for him). Those short completions and check downs covered his ass, make no mistake about it. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt because it's not like his receiving core is Boldin and Smith but the guy was throwing wildly overthrown, underthrown, and picked off passes when it counted the most on a consistent basis.
    But Colt McCoy!

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    Default Re: The Brandon Weeden Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jiglet View Post
    But Colt McCoy!
    Ok, Jigo. I know you love this route.

    To hell with Colt McCoy but the fact remains Brandon Weeden didn't exactly have this great rookie year that blew Colt's out of the water. In fact, their rookie years are about even and statistically Colt's actually edges out Weedens.

    Weeden will be 30 fucking years old. Jesus Christ how do people not understand this?

    Joe Flacco is 27 and it took him 5 years to sniff elite status and that's with an elite receiving core but make no mistake that dude can make some crazy circus throws. Weeden doesn't have anything near the same skill set as Flacco and by the time there is a team around him he will have been way past his QB prime if he's not already past it. There's no logical reason to want to continue with this waste of a draft pick.

    The time for Colt v. Weeds comparisons has passed. It's time to win so ask yourself... Is Weeden anywhere near Joe Flacco? The answer is unequivocally no.
    Last edited by JSS2306; 02-15-2013 at 08:52 PM.

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  4. #1743
    Orange and Blue PIP's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Brandon Weeden Thread

    Wait, so the Browns thought a 30 year old rookie was better than Russell Wilson ?

    Did they not measure Wilson's moxy ?

    Come back, Heckert
    Quote Originally Posted by PIP View Post
    Mike Miller reminds me of myself...Brothas love him and Sistas **** him...

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  6. #1744
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    Default Re: The Brandon Weeden Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JSS2306 View Post
    So because Weeden completed a higher percentage of passes in college translates to Pat Shurmurs offense being the culprit for his woes in the NFL and then you have homers who actually agree with this garbage (no offense). Please... college shotgun can't even be attempted in the NFL.

    If anything, the WCO covered up for Weedens main shortcomings which would be the long ball. He is extremely inaccurate from beyond 20 yards ( which is probably why Pat designed those short routes for him). Those short completions and check downs covered his ass, make no mistake about it. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt because it's not like his receiving core is Boldin and Smith but the guy was throwing wildly overthrown, underthrown, and picked off passes when it counted the most on a consistent basis.
    It's funny because the PD just showed some stats a week or so ago about QB's throwing out of the shotgun and it's actually more used than going under center in today's game. With that, our rook QB who is used to seeing the field out of the gun, was next to last in percentage of snaps taken in the gun. So, while other teams alter their offenses to make rookie QB's comfortable, Shurmur forces an old, garbage system down Weeden's throat.

    The point of showing there is a long history of rookie QBs with poor comp %'s is that it takes time for these guys to adjust to the NFL game. Even the best QBs show this. Shurmur's inept offense is the icing on the cake. And let's not forget this team was blowing the NFL away in dropped passes for the first half of the season. I'm not even sure what you mean by college shotgun. The point is not the differences in schemes, but how you look at the field and take your drop. The WCO didn't hide anything. It forced quick drops and slants, all based on timing, with a bunch of young recievers and a rookie QB. Listen to any WCO coach and they all tell you it takes years to get all the nuances and timing down. So, instead of easing a rook into it, you have him throw over 40 times per game? That's supposed to be helping him? Whoever Shurmur's agent is needs to be fired, so they can get you on the payroll.

    Point is, when you are a rookie and dealing with NFL speed in a completely foreign system with a bunch of young skill guys around you, it's not easy.

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  8. #1745
    Administrator MoFlo's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Brandon Weeden Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JSS2306 View Post
    So because Weeden completed a higher percentage of passes in college translates to Pat Shurmurs offense being the culprit for his woes in the NFL and then you have homers who actually agree with this garbage (no offense). Please... college shotgun can't even be attempted in the NFL.

    If anything, the WCO covered up for Weedens main shortcomings which would be the long ball. He is extremely inaccurate from beyond 20 yards ( which is probably why Pat designed those short routes for him). Those short completions and check downs covered his ass, make no mistake about it. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt because it's not like his receiving core is Boldin and Smith but the guy was throwing wildly overthrown, underthrown, and picked off passes when it counted the most on a consistent basis.
    Wait, so if we feel like a rookie QB can improve, that makes us homers? Come on now, that's a little ridiculous.

    And you're basically saying that because he was successful in an up-tempo shotgun offense in college, that means in the NFL, he'd be most comfortable & most successful in a dink n dunk offense where he's under center & in a huddle every down?

    Pat "designed" those short routes for him because that's the style of offense Pat runs.

  9. #1746
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    Default Re: The Brandon Weeden Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by SmknJoe7 View Post
    It's funny because the PD just showed some stats a week or so ago about QB's throwing out of the shotgun and it's actually more used than going under center in today's game.
    Right. College shotgun v. NFL shotgun are completely different sets. Did the PD compare college to NFL shotgun or how the NFL is using more NFL shotgun sets? That obviously puts that article in a completely new light. I'm not saying you don't have some obscure point but it doesn't translate very well to your original point.

    With that, our rook QB who is used to seeing the field out of the gun, was next to last in percentage of snaps taken in the gun. So, while other teams alter their offenses to make rookie QB's comfortable, Shurmur forces an old, garbage system down Weeden's throat.
    That old garbage system was the very reason Weedens completion percentage was what it was (not very good either, 57%).


    The point of showing there is a long history of rookie QBs with poor comp %'s is that it takes time for these guys to adjust to the NFL game. Even the best QBs show this.
    There is no bookmark for a 28 year old rookie. First in history so you're kind of reaching here... which is the whole point. The guy is old.

    Shurmur's inept offense is the icing on the cake. And let's not forget this team was blowing the NFL away in dropped passes for the first half of the season.
    The first half... and then Little looked like Torrey Smith in the second while Weeden regressed.
    I'm not even sure what you mean by college shotgun. The point is not the differences in schemes, but how you look at the field and take your drop.
    No. The most important difference that I see with Weeden is the coverage and throwing balls into tight windows. The speed and efficiency of NFL corners is completely different than any given college team and it really takes a mistake on defensive coverage and a separation of the receiver/corner for Weeden to make a big play. He cannot throw into NFL coverage on the long ball. I didn't see him do it once and I watched every game. Maybe one play the entire season and if you can prove it then more power to you.




    The WCO didn't hide anything. It forced quick drops and slants, all based on timing, with a bunch of young recievers and a rookie QB. Listen to any WCO coach and they all tell you it takes years to get all the nuances and timing down. So, instead of easing a rook into it, you have him throw over 40 times per game? That's supposed to be helping him? Whoever Shurmur's agent is needs to be fired, so they can get you on the payroll.
    Shurmurs agent is a beast. How does that inept asshole make Weeden better than he is and get hired by Chip Kelly? I understand the disdain for the guy but you can only put so much blame on one human being. Weeden consistently missed on open receivers (and didn't even attempt to throw to them) which tells me Weeden is not confident and unable to throw into coverage consistently or he can't handle defensive pressure.

    Point is, when you are a rookie and dealing with NFL speed in a completely foreign system with a bunch of young skill guys around you, it's not easy.

    My point is, he isn't a typical rookie and this line of thinking does not apply to Brandon Weeden who needs to be held to a higher standard due to where he was drafted and his age. He should have made progress but regressed.

    I give him the benefit of the doubt. I hope we get some sort of proven starting receiver to prove me wrong or right.
    Last edited by JSS2306; 02-15-2013 at 10:19 PM.

  10. #1747
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    Default Re: The Brandon Weeden Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JSS2306 View Post
    Right. College shotgun v. NFL shotgun are completely different sets. Did the PD compare college to NFL shotgun or how the NFL is using more NFL shotgun sets? That obviously puts that article in a completely new light. I'm not saying you don't have some obscure point but it doesn't translate very well to your original point.
    You're completely missing and/or twisting the point. That doesn't change the "light" on the article one bit. While the rest of the NFL is using the gun more and more every year, stuck in the 80's Pat is taking a gunner who hardly ever played under center in college and putting him in an offense that even a team full of vets take years to master. We have nothing but young guys everywhere in our skill spots. College or NFL, a QB in a gun is a QB in the gun. It's about vantage point. WCO is predacated on precise timing between catcher and thrower. Did Weeden throw more than a handful of balls out of a 3 step drop in college? And why were the offenses in SEA, WAS, CAR, DEN, etc all changed to suit their QBs strengths? Yet, your hero boy runs the same exact offense he has been in for decades now? And God forbid we have some audibles.

    That old garbage system was the very reason Weedens completion percentage was what it was (not very good either, 57%).
    Pure speculation. You have zero knowledge at all what it would have been if, say, ohhhh...Chud and Norv were his coaches last year.

    There is no bookmark for a 28 year old rookie. First in history so you're kind of reaching here... which is the whole point. The guy is old.
    If there is no baseline to compare it to, why are you so positive that his age was some huge advantage? He was still a rookie. It's not like he spent the extra years he has on these other guys playing football. He was playing baseball for the Yankees farm teams. 18 or 28, when you go from the NCAA to the NFL, there is a huge difference in complexity of schemes and speed of the game. This isn't some new concept.

    The first half... and then Little looked like Torrey Smith in the second while Weeden regressed.
    Torrey Smith? So, you're pining to be Little's agent now, too?

    No. The most important difference that I see with Weeden is the coverage and throwing balls into tight windows. The speed and efficiency of NFL corners is completely different than any given college team and it really takes a mistake on defensive coverage and a separation of the receiver/corner for Weeden to make a big play. He cannot throw into NFL coverage on the long ball. I didn't see him do it once and I watched every game. Maybe one play the entire season and if you can prove it then more power to you.
    This has nothing to do with what I was saying, but again, you are exagerrating. No, he did not trust himself enough throwing into tight windows, but I'm not sure that is some huge shock for a rook playing in an offense he doesn't fit. I'm also not sure it means he can't improve upon it, either. Again, this isn't something exclusive to just our rookie QB.

    Shurmurs agent is a beast. How does that inept asshole make Weeden better than he is and get hired by Chip Kelly? I understand the disdain for the guy but you can only put so much blame on one human being. Weeden consistently missed on open receivers (and didn't even attempt to throw to them) which tells me Weeden is not confident and unable to throw into coverage consistently or he can't handle defensive pressure.
    Please point to all the success Shurmur has shown calling plays in his career to show me he isn't the inept guy I saw for 2 years. No doubt Weeden lost his confidence at numerous points. Again, this isn't some new frontier for a rook QB.

    My point is, he isn't a typical rookie and this line of thinking does not apply to Brandon Weeden who needs to be held to a higher standard due to where he was drafted and his age. He should have made progress but regressed.

    I give him the benefit of the doubt. I hope we get some sort of proven starting receiver to prove me wrong or right.
    I think the most important thing will be letting him continue to work with the same young guys he had before and then adding in a solid vet. it also won't hurt to have a healthy TRich, either.

    Hey, I've said it before. He could get another shot and completely faceplant. I've never said otherwise. I just can't come to a logical conclusion based upon a season he went through like last year as a rook. Hopefully, he gets a chance, and the new regime decides to focus on continuing to build the rest of a pretty promising young team.

  11. #1748
    Banņed caf's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Brandon Weeden Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JSS2306 View Post
    There is no bookmark for a 28 year old rookie. First in history so you're kind of reaching here...
    Otto Graham (the greatest quarterback in Browns history) was an NFL rookie at the age of 29.

    Kurt Warner was also 27-28 when he was a NFL rookie I believe.
    Last edited by caf; 02-16-2013 at 08:30 AM.

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    Default Re: The Brandon Weeden Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by cafemerald View Post
    Otto Graham (the greatest quarterback in Browns history) was an NFL rookie at the age of 29.

    Kurt Warner was also 27-28 when he was a NFL rookie I believe.
    But Graham had 4 years of starting experience with the Browns in the AAFC

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  14. #1750
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    Default Re: The Brandon Weeden Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JMcCurry08 View Post
    But Graham had 4 years of starting experience with the Browns in the AAFC
    Hence the chuckle. Kurt Warner is a pretty valid comparison though.

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    All Star JSS2306's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Brandon Weeden Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by cafemerald View Post
    Hence the chuckle. Kurt Warner is a pretty valid comparison though.
    Warner wasn't drafted and continued to play football in the arena football league. He also had a few injury setbacks that prevented him from trying out with various teams for awhile. He originally tried out for Green Bay but that was when Favre was just getting going so he had no shot then.

    He was signed in 98 I believe and only played in like one game as third stringer. The next year however, he strung together one of the best seasons by a quarterback in history. That's where the bar is set for Weeden right now.

    Do you honestly see Weeden pulling that off this year?

  16. #1752
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    Default Re: The Brandon Weeden Thread

    I think we all need to sit down and agree that Weeden is not the future, and we should be looking at upgrades at all times.

    Instead of comparing his "career" with Otto Graham and Kurt Warner. What a waste.

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  18. #1753
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    Default Re: The Brandon Weeden Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by I.K.W.T View Post
    I think we all need to sit down and agree that Weeden is not the future, and we should be looking at upgrades at all times.

    Instead of comparing his "career" with Otto Graham and Kurt Warner. What a waste.
    This.

    I like Weeden for what he is (IMO he has a ceiling of Matt Schaub) and he costs $2 million a year. Several of my friends are Jets fans, and they would take that any day over paying "Sanchize" $14 million.

    However, to compete in this ridiculous AFC North, we have to keep swinging until we find someone who has the chance to be elite.

  19. #1754
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    Default Re: The Brandon Weeden Thread

    Who's to say Weeden couldn't play longer than the average QB because he hasn't been taking NFL hits for the last 7 years? I still don't get what the harm is in giving him another season. He had a poor rookie season under a poor coach in a bad offense that didn't fit his game. How is any of that a surprise?

    Now tell me, what are the better realistic options available this season? Alex Smith? Matt Flynn? Derek Anderson? How are any of them less of a question mark than Weeden? Why waste assets on any of those guys when we can just give the second year QB a chance in an offense that actually fits his style?
    Ass pennies

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  21. #1755
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    Default Re: The Brandon Weeden Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Shakalou View Post
    Who's to say Weeden couldn't play longer than the average QB because he hasn't been taking NFL hits for the last 7 years? I still don't get what the harm is in giving him another season. He had a poor rookie season under a poor coach in a bad offense that didn't fit his game. How is any of that a surprise?

    Now tell me, what are the better realistic options available this season? Alex Smith? Matt Flynn? Derek Anderson? How are any of them less of a question mark than Weeden? Why waste assets on any of those guys when we can just give the second year QB a chance in an offense that actually fits his style?
    This is a poor argument. I honestly do not care how many hits someone has taken. I don't care if someone can play for 15 years, i want to see someone with talent who can lead us to a championship. You cannot honestly say Weeden can do that, nobody can.

    I want to see talent, not durability as a terrible player for a long time.

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