View Poll Results: If the Cavs get the second pick, who should they choose?

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  • Ben McLemore

    19 8.92%
  • Otto Porter

    129 60.56%
  • Anthony Bennett

    9 4.23%
  • Victor Oladipo

    24 11.27%
  • Alex Len

    30 14.08%
  • Other---

    2 0.94%
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Thread: 2013 NBA Draft

  1. #1066
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    Default Re: 2013 NBA Draft

    Shabazz cant get much to fall tonight thus far. It's half time. His most impressive buckets have been finishing through contact from about ten feet out. He has excellent strength.

  2. #1067
    With the Left hand! TyGuy's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2013 NBA Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by RMsDanielGibson View Post
    What a silly thing to say when:

    1. The only guy out of Archie Goodwin, Ben McLemore, Shabazz Muhammad, and Michael Carter-Williams that had ever step foot on an NCAA college basketball court during a game was MCW for a meager 10 minutes per game, and Dion was (is) clearly better than him. None of these guys are guaranteed to be better than Dion, and it would've been too hard to project their talents onto the NCAA game until they got there.

    2. There's no predicting where we'll be drafting.

    3. You can't draft for one draft based on the next draft. That would just be irresponsible.

    4. What you said is just not true.
    All of those guys you mentioned were blue chip prospects that didn't come out of nowhere. Sure it is their first college season, but it didn't take much scouting at the next level to determine quite a few players would turn out to be dandy NBA players. Sure, a lot of them need seasoning or don't truly blossom until they are deep into their college career. It is especially true with shabazz, who has been on the NBA radar for quite some time.

    My issue with the Dion selection is his draft stock shot up after the college season had ended when he didn't even workout or participate during the combine. He was slated to go in the 20's and now all of a sudden he is a lottery pick while just sitting on his kiester gaining tons of weight? There is also a plethora of smallish combo guards every year. Last but not least would be his glaring weakness in his finishing ability and shot selection which translated from college to the pro's. Shot selection is an easier fix if indeed he has a decent bball iq or is just cold blooded and has never met a shot he doesn't like. Finishing ability is a difficult one. He never showed good finishing ability even at the college level, it doesn't get any easier at the pro level.

    We knew full well that we were not ready to step up and make the playoffs this year. If they really felt Dion was the guy, then I guess i cant fault them in their selection. I just think a combo guard is incredibly easy to find and next years crop of wings/2 guards are much better than this years.

    That being said I would't let Dion get in the way of picking any of those guys. It does make things a little bit more difficult with our roster, but we are in desperate need of talent at any place other than point guard.
    Last edited by TyGuy; 01-11-2013 at 12:15 AM.

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    Default Re: 2013 NBA Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by RMsDanielGibson View Post
    I wouldn't mind either of those guys, but I am still a Shabazz fan due to his overwhelming size he would have at SG, his ability to play SF, his ability to create for himself, rebound, and his overall skill set. I won't lie though that McLemore is impressing me more and more. The sad thing about drafting him though is that, if both Dion and McLemore end up amazing (all-star level), then neither player would end up being able to play more than 30 minutes per game if there's 96 minutes to be had between the PG and SG positions and Kyrie's plaiyng 36+ at PG. That leaves 12 minutes at PG and 12 minutes at SG if Dion is the backup (for a total of 24 minutes of play per game) and McLemore is playing 36 minutes per game at SG. That's 60 minutes per game for two all-star level players. 30 minutes per game is kinda low for an all-star. Shabazz, on the other hand, would have no trouble sliding over to SF when need be, not only allowing Dion to have more minutes, but also allowing all three of Kyrie, Dion, and Shabazz to play all at once. I know it's too early to say whether or not Dion will be an all-star, but I'm certainly not ruling it out. It's just that drafting Shabazz would really make our team more versatile in where we could place our wings. Again, I like Shabazz's dominating size.

    As for big men, I'm a hot mess in terms of who I want. Bennet is seemingly the most talented, but his size is a concern. Alex Len looks like maybe a better version of Zeller, but perhaps maybe only a little bit higher of a ceiling such as an average to above average-starter. Nerlens is incredible on defense, and he has really put a lot of effort into building up his frame if you look at his pictures from even a year ago. That gives me a lot of hope for him to be able to put on some more weight in order to withstand the size of NBA-level centers. but that'll require that he puts on about 20-30 lbs more of muscle. If we drafted him, I'd have two concerns: his ability to co-exist with Tristan, and Tristan getting traded, which I'd be ok with as long as it was for the betterment of the team. Isaiah Austin is looking like a very unique center in that he would instantly be the tallest player in the league capable of regularly hitting 3s, but his lack of strength especially in the lower body is concerning. I'm just not high on Cody Zeller at all. Average to below average rebounder at the next level, the shortest wingspan of any 7-footer I've ever heard of by about 4 inches. I think I'll pass.

    My dream is for the Cavs to draft Shabazz, then somehow acquire another top 10 pick and nab the best big man available, preferably a center.
    I am in agreement here. I think Mac and Bennett are the two most impressive prospects. Mac is an absolutely electric athlete with a beautiful and effective jump shot from anywhere on the court. Bennett looks like the type of player I covet at the 4. I absolutely love power forwards than can pick and pop and pick and roll. His jumpshot also gives him another dimension as he has very good athletic ability and strength, and finishes strong around the hoop. If he has a jumphook with either hand and counter moves, he will be a very difficult cover in the nba.
    Last edited by TyGuy; 01-11-2013 at 04:14 PM.

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  6. #1069
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    Default Re: 2013 NBA Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by TyGuy View Post
    All of those guys you mentioned were blue chip prospects that didn't come out of nowhere. Sure it is their first college season, but it didn't take much scouting at the next level to determine quite a few players would turn out to be dandy NBA players. Sure, a lot of them need seasoning or don't truly blossom until they are deep into their college career. It is especially true with shabazz, who has been on the NBA radar for quite some time.

    My issue with the Dion selection is his draft stock shot up after the college season had ended when he didn't even workout or participate during the combine. He was slated to go in the 20's and now all of a sudden he is a lottery pick while just sitting on his kiester gaining tons of weight? There is also a plethora of smallish combo guards every year. Last but not least would be his glaring weakness in his finishing ability and shot selection which translated from college to the pro's. Shot selection is an easier fix if indeed he has a decent bball iq or is just cold blooded and has never met a shot he doesn't like. Finishing ability is a difficult one. He never showed good finishing ability even at the college level, it doesn't get any easier at the pro level.

    We knew full well that we were not ready to step up and make the playoffs this year. If they really felt Dion was the guy, then I guess i cant fault them in their selection. I just think a combo guard is incredibly easy to find and next years crop of wings/2 guards are much better than this years.

    That being said I would't let Dion get in the way of picking any of those guys. It does make things a little bit more difficult with our roster, but we are in desperate need of talent at any place other than point guard.
    To the general public, Dion's stock was in the 20s, and, to the general public, his stock shot up. According to reports, GMs were high on him for a while and all really liked him. He was the one that GMs were hoping would slip, but he didn't. It's probable that Grant had Dion very high on his list months before the 2012 draft occurred. No one really needed to see him in the combine because they knew what they were getting with him just like Grant specifically said that he knew so much about Dion that he really didn't even need to interview him.

    Besides, it's been 30-something games. TT didn't come onto his own until 10 games ago in his 2nd season. Give him some time although I'll happily accept Shabazz. Michael Carter Williams is not a scorer and more of a distributor, so he's off the list. That leaves McLemore, Archie Goodwin, and Shabazz.

    Anyhow, don't forget that Dion's ankle is still messed up as Maximus reported. He even said that it's been throwing off his jump shot. Ever wonder why Dion's jump shot magically went away after the ankle injury? I'm not saying that Dion wasn't hot during that time as well, but I do think that he's still having issues with it as Max says. He does need to work on his finishing, but it's not as hard as you make it out to be. A jump shot, ball handling, and actually getting to the rack are a lot harder things to learn.

    One thing I notice about Dion's finishing is that there's practically never any ball spin on his layups ever. This is one aspect of Kyrie's game that is phenomenal in that Kyrie knows where to place the ball and what type of spin he needs to put on the ball in order to basically have the ball get sucked into the hoop. Kyrie could teach Dion a lot about finishing, I'm sure. It's in Kyrie's best interest to do so.

    Also don't forget that it was no guarantee that any of these guys were going to even enter the draft. How silly would it be for Grant to draft someone else that he thought was a worse player simply because there may or may not be a better SG in next year's draft? Extremely.

    And actually, a combo guard is harder to find. Why? Because the combo guard has to be able to play two positions. Look back through history and show me how many great combo guards are out there as opposed to just plain-old two-guards. You'll find a lot more 2-guards than combo guards. A SG really only has to be great while off the ball and only needs to be ok when on the ball. A combo guard has to be great at both. A combo guard has to be able to score from anywhere on the floor in addition to being a great passer and ball-handler. They also have to be able to guard both guard positions. The only combo guard in this draft is Michael Carter-Williams, and he would not be a good fit with Kyrie due to his poor shooting. He's really more of a PG who has the size to play the 2 than a true SG or combo guard. Think of a 6'6" Rondo-style player, and there's Michael Carter-Williams.

  7. #1070
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    Default Re: 2013 NBA Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by TyGuy View Post
    I am in agreement here. I think Mac and Bennet are the two most impressive prospects. Mac is an absolutely electric athlete with a beautiful and effective jump shot from anywhere on the court. Bennet looks like the type of player I covet at the 4. I absolutely love power forwards than can pick and pop and pick and roll. His jumpshot also gives him another dimension as he has very good athletic ability and strength and finishes strong around the hoop. if he has a jumphook with either hand and counter moves, he will be a very difficult cover in the nba.
    I trust Grant if he were to draft either of these guys, but let me put my feelings on these guys this way: I'd be very, very nervous upon hearing the news of Grant drafting either one of these guys (Bennett more so than McLemore). I just like the piece of mind that at least other teams value our picks when we make them kinda like we did with Kyrie. He was not hard to accept at all because he was the consensus number one pick while I did not expect the Cavs to draft Dion or Tristan. Both of those picks made me very nervous, but, with Tristan's better play as of late, he's looking like he could be the 2nd-best player in the 2011 draft, and I still have faith that Dion will at least live up to his draft spot relative to the rest of the draft. Once Dion heals up, gets an off-season to work on his weaknesses, and build some chemistry, I think he'll end up being a much, much better player next season.

    The guy that I'd be least nervous about Grant drafting is Shabazz . . . but hell, I'm just probably going to be a hot mess on draft night anyway like I always am and be nervous regardless of who we draft.

  8. #1071
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    Default Re: 2013 NBA Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by UncleDrew View Post
    Makes Dion Waiters a wasted pick then...don't even get me started again on that!
    Getting another shooting guard wouldn't cause Dion to evaporate into the ether. To me, it seems especially unwise to pass up on a SG, if he's the BPA, because we just drafted Dion, when Dion has looked better suited to be a score-in-bunches 6th man in college and so far in his young NBA career. If Dion improves his shot selection, off-the-ball involvement, and inside finishing enough to become a force in this league, he's either another weapon for the currently weapon-starved Cavs or a valuable trade asset. Ideally, Dion would have started off like Kyrie and removed all doubts; almost no rookies do that, though. As it is, the Cavs can't pass on elite-level talent just because he plays the same position as Dion. Now, whether the Cavs end up believing McLemore (or another SG) is an elite-level talent, that can't be answered yet. And I'll readily admit that I'd rather it be the case that one of the apples of my eye in the next draft is a SF or Center; there's still plenty of basketball yet to be played, so that could still happen.

    But the real point is that only Dion can make drafting Dion a wasted pick.

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    Default Re: 2013 NBA Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by sunnysideof216 View Post
    Why do you have Bennett listed as a swingman? Your list is good, otherwise
    When I was initially reading about Bennett, I assumed he was a SF. Maybe it's not looking that way after all.

  10. #1073
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    Default Re: 2013 NBA Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by UncleDrew View Post
    Makes Dion Waiters a wasted pick then...don't even get me started again on that!
    Not at all. Every rotation needs about 8 guys –*think about how crucial Jason Terry was to the Mavs championship a couple years ago.

    And even if he ends up not being in our future, we need to continue to stockpile assets for potential blockbuster trades.

  11. #1074
    A View Inside the Game Wine and Gold's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2013 NBA Draft

    The guy I think everybody should be focusing in on, and getting their expectations and mind wrapped around as being the next high pick to come to the Cavaliers is our next center ...Alex Len. I just have a feeling from certain things I've kinda happened to get wind of that we are really watching him close and loving what we are learning, seeing, hearing..the works. Just can see us locking down the center position in this years draft, and this is the guy that might just be the one we end up with. He's got lots of upside ...he's big, athletic, hard working, and coachable ...


  12. #1075
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    Default Re: 2013 NBA Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Wine and Gold View Post
    The guy I think everybody should be focusing in on, and getting their expectations and mind wrapped around as being the next high pick to come to the Cavaliers is our next center ...Alex Len. I just have a feeling from certain things I've kinda happened to get wind of that we are really watching him close and loving what we are learning, seeing, hearing..the works. Just can see us locking down the center position in this years draft, and this is the guy that might just be the one we end up with. He's got lots of upside ...he's big, athletic, hard working, and coachable ...
    Yeah, I think its become painfully obvious that we need more size, I don't think the Cavs can afford to pass on another legit Center.

  13. #1076
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    Default Re: 2013 NBA Draft

    If the draft were tomorrow Alex Len would go number one. I think he's shown the most improvement. Not sure he has the ceiling of noel, or looks as natural as shabazz, but at the college level he's looking like the best player thus far. At the next level I think shabazz and noel still project as having higher ceilings. Don't forget about rudy gobert either. He projects as an all defensive teamer, so he could very easily move into the top of the draft like tyson Chandler.

    I think we definately go center this draft. Lots to choose from. I think it'll go Len/Noel/Gobert/Zeller/Austin

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  15. #1077
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    Default Re: 2013 NBA Draft

    I agree with Wine and Gold about Len! We really need to start routing for the Lakers so we cam pick 17 or 16 instead of 29th with our second pick. It would allow us to realistically get back into the top 12 or 13 and possinly nab Otto Porter or nab our backup PG of the futrure om CJ Mccolum.

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    Default Re: 2013 NBA Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Wine and Gold View Post
    The guy I think everybody should be focusing in on, and getting their expectations and mind wrapped around as being the next high pick to come to the Cavaliers is our next center ...Alex Len. I just have a feeling from certain things I've kinda happened to get wind of that we are really watching him close and loving what we are learning, seeing, hearing..the works. Just can see us locking down the center position in this years draft, and this is the guy that might just be the one we end up with. He's got lots of upside ...he's big, athletic, hard working, and coachable ...
    I like Len a lot too. To me, he seems like the most well rounded center project in the draft.

    I want to go BPA in this draft, but I can't help but think this: Len is one of the best fits at center next to TT in this draft.

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  18. #1079
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    Default Re: 2013 NBA Draft

    The cavs will have to get a top 2 pick to get len. If he's not going 1 he's going 2. I don't think teams are going to be too thrilled with how raw noel is, think he could fall. I also think cody zeller lacks the size you want in an nba center so he will fall a little. Shabazz is kinda like irving as far as developement. He's very talented, readymade. So, he's going to go number one, or number 2 guaranteed. Given the tanking jobs going on, i think the cavs are likely to pick between 4-6 rather than 1 or 2. This will likely leave us with noel/gobert/zeller/austin to choose from. All of them have problems. I think shabazz and len are the only sure things, so the cavs must do a better job of losing if they want to avoid a speculative pick.

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    Default Re: 2013 NBA Draft

    Well first of all... teams don't draft based on fit. Noel is the best center/power forward prospect in the draft. If both him and Len are sitting there when the Cavs pick, I will be seriously pissed off if the Cavs take Len.

    Noel may be raw and a ways off, but I don't see Len being some freak at the next level... ever...

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