View Poll Results: If the Cavs get the second pick, who should they choose?

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  • Ben McLemore

    19 8.92%
  • Otto Porter

    129 60.56%
  • Anthony Bennett

    9 4.23%
  • Victor Oladipo

    24 11.27%
  • Alex Len

    30 14.08%
  • Other---

    2 0.94%
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Thread: 2013 NBA Draft

  1. #1336
    Team Player Len's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2013 NBA Draft

    Is floor spacing that needed out of the 4 and 5 positions now?

    OKC, made it to the Finals with Perk/Ibaka front court. Up until this year Ibaka didn't show his range.

    The Bulls teams of old (With MJ of course) Didn't get their scoring from their Bigs. Longley/Carwright/Grant/Purdue

    Ewing/Oakley was a pretty strong D frontcourt.

  2. #1337
    Rising Star MRMsix6's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2013 NBA Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Len View Post
    Is floor spacing that needed out of the 4 and 5 positions now?

    OKC, made it to the Finals with Perk/Ibaka front court. Up until this year Ibaka didn't show his range.

    The Bulls teams of old (With MJ of course) Didn't get their scoring from their Bigs. Longley/Carwright/Grant/Purdue

    Ewing/Oakley was a pretty strong D frontcourt.
    I think it can be overcome with multiple elite perimeter players, as your examples show.

  3. #1338
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    Default Re: 2013 NBA Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Homestar View Post
    LeBron is the best player in the league. He isn't going to win any championships with a front court of Tristan and Nerlens.
    I disagree. Defense wins championships. Sure, you still need to be able to score, but I don't think scoring is going to be much of an issue with Kyrie and LeBron on your roster.

    Imagine this:

    Thompson keeps improving his offense game and getting better at finishing with various go-to moves. That's not something I would consider as hard to believe given the leaps and bounds by which Thompson has improved his offensive game this year. The Cavs draft Noel to form one of the better young defensive front-courts in the NBA. They add LeBron a year later, which basically gives them the best defensive front-court in the NBA. Dion continues to develop, gets better at finishing, and becomes a more consistent scoring threat. The Cavs add a knock-down veteran three-point shooter to start at the two, bringing Dion off the bench (although he plays starter minutes and back-up PG).

    That's a pretty scary team right there, and other teams would have a very hard time scoring against us in the paint with LeBron, Thompson, and Noel to worry about. Could spacing become an issue? Maybe, but you could certainly minimize the time that Noel and Thompson are on the court together by making sure one of them is always out there when the other is on the bench.

  4. #1339
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    Default Re: 2013 NBA Draft

    A veritable cornucopia of thoughts for this thread:

    First, about BPA vs. fit, Alex Len is maybe THE only player at the very top of the draft who really represents an uncompromising fit on this team, assuming for the sake of argument that his abilities in the NBA will resemble those he's shown in college. The problem for me is that he's one of my least favorite prospects currently ranked at the very top of the draft by most outlets. My four favorite prospects, in no particular order, are comprised of a SG (McLemore), another SG who MIGHT be able to play some SF (Shabazz), a short PF (Bennett), and a PF/C with very limited range offensively, regardless of what you think of his overall offensive effectiveness (Noel). For various reasons, none of them are perfect fits on this team. Given the need for game-changing talent on this team, rather than just more solid contributors, I'd be extremely disappointed if we ended up passing on any of these guys in favor of need, if that was the basis of Grant's decision. If it were just a matter of Grant liking somebody else (like Len) better as the BPA, I could at least stomach it and hope that he's right.

    On a Tristan/Noel frontcourt: No matter how it's spun, these two are not an ideal pairing offensively (or even defensively, until/unless Noel puts on some mass). There's no way to guarantee it wouldn't work, but I think it goes deeper than just looking at each offensively and saying, "well, Tristan's gotten better on offense" and "Noel is not as bad as everybody says on offense" and then just assume that each will be able to do their things independently of one another. I hate to steal from MYoung on this point, but right is right, and I absolutely agree with his recent post in one thread or another regarding the importance of floor spacing, particularly on a team with Kyrie and Dion as the backcourt (and even if you add Lebron). We want those two to thrive on aggressive drives to the basket. Regardless of their ability to finish, two bigs who need not be guarded outside the paint stifle our guards' ability to get into it. Even if Tristan and Noel were both to become reliable finishers inside, neither will be able to consistently put himself in a position to score going towards the bucket while the other's defender is there to defend it too. If either were to become a just throw it inside and let him work, back to the basket post player, we could play inside out with him kicking it out to shooters off the double teams. But neither projects to be that, that style would be a waste of Kyrie and Dion's (and Lebron's?) slashing abilities, and relying on jump shooting sometimes gets hairy in the playoffs anyways.

    Further, while I know I recently posted in this thread about the tendency for young bigs to bulk up naturally, I recently saw a photo that tempered my expectations a bit when it comes to Noel's potential to bulk up:



    Damn does he look slight of build and narrow shouldered compared to Davis and Cauley-Stein. He's a kid with a great work ethic from all reports and I still feel confident that he'll be able to add some bulk and strength, but I just wonder if he has the frame to put on enough mass to effectively defend the low post. Tristan has gotten stronger and I actually think he's pretty good at digging in and defending the post already, which will likely only get better, so maybe we put Tristan on the stronger inside pivots when we face them, but then why are we giving up so much in floor-spacing on offense if Tristan's going to be our de facto center anyways?

    So I don't know. I still like Noel a lot, love what he brings defensively, love truly explosive bigs like him, and would be more than fine with the Cavs taking him if the opportunity is there, fit be damned. And I still don't think we should pass up on ANYONE this FO pegs as the BPA at the 2-5 positions on this team. I just don't think it's as simple as it's frequently being discussed here.

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  6. #1340
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    Default Re: 2013 NBA Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Len View Post
    Is floor spacing that needed out of the 4 and 5 positions now?

    OKC, made it to the Finals with Perk/Ibaka front court. Up until this year Ibaka didn't show his range.

    The Bulls teams of old (With MJ of course) Didn't get their scoring from their Bigs. Longley/Carwright/Grant/Purdue

    Ewing/Oakley was a pretty strong D frontcourt.
    Floor spacing isn't needed when you have more perimeter shooting at the guard spots. The problem is Kyrie and Dion are slashers. Their money is driving. Kyrie occasionally uses shooting to free up his lanes, but that doesn't make him much different than a more efficient LeBron. If that's the case, who's going to stretch the lanes, prevent the clogging?

    As for Oklahoma City, Ibaka already improved his range last year. Each year had substantial improvement. You might not have noticed or remembered it but I saw it clearly. That was a significant reason for their sudden rise to the top, along with Durant's rise to stardom.

    Also, you're neglecting the Bulls models too much by mixing two different championship runs together... First was the Cartwright/Grant + Perdue/Williams/King frontcourt (the starters had decent mid range shots), then came Luc/Rodman + Wennington/Buechler. Less offense like Oklahoma, but not necessary since the Bulls could play small ball a lot with Kukoc.

    Also, I think my stance is a little different now. I understand the essence of getting the BPA. If that's really Noel, then fine, but we really should wait until the end of the season before we decide. Many times, even in the middle of the college campaign, there are off days for these guys. Sometimes, the unexpected happens. And really, has Grant led us astray before? Try to trust him, you arm chair GMs...
    (Reserved for future Animated Signature-that-won't-slow-you-down)



    Magic Number Thread:
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  8. #1341
    Team Player Len's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2013 NBA Draft

    While his name is being discussed here.


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  10. #1342
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    Default Re: 2013 NBA Draft

    He gave him the Shaq post-dunk crotch push. Classic
    AYEEEEEEE
    ANTHONY BENNETT > TRISTAN THOMPSON

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  12. #1343
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    Default Re: 2013 NBA Draft

    Glenn Robinson has a beautiful stroke in addition to having a nice blend of athleticism and court vision. Loving what this kid has to offer.

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  14. #1344
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    Default Re: 2013 NBA Draft

    So Kyle Anderson has steadily improved his game over the season and is now leading the Pac 12 in rebounds while (possibly) playing out of position on D as a PF while serving as the de-facto PG on offense a lot of the time. He can contribute in so many different ways, but so far hasn't shown much as a scorer or shooter. Chances are he'll declare for the draft, so if you have a mid-to-late first round draft pick, where do you draft him and what role do you envision him having on your team?

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  16. #1345
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    Default Re: 2013 NBA Draft

    I really believe GR3 is going to be a heckuva an NBA player. If only that LA pick would pan out, he's a guy that you can maybe get in that 15-20 range this year. He should probably stay in school and be a top 7 pick next year, he's gonna take a couple years to develop but seems to me he'd be worth the wait as either a 2 or 3 in the NBA.

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  18. #1346
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    Default Re: 2013 NBA Draft

    Shabazz looks very good tonight against Arizona, showing some range, attacking the basket, and working defensively. This is also his eighth game with 20+ points on the season. He remains my second favorite prospect in this draft (behind Noel).

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  20. #1347
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    Default Re: 2013 NBA Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by howler1313 View Post
    So Kyle Anderson has steadily improved his game over the season and is now leading the Pac 12 in rebounds while (possibly) playing out of position on D as a PF while serving as the de-facto PG on offense a lot of the time. He can contribute in so many different ways, but so far hasn't shown much as a scorer or shooter. Chances are he'll declare for the draft, so if you have a mid-to-late first round draft pick, where do you draft him and what role do you envision him having on your team?
    I like what he brings to the table (excellent rebounder, real good passer and a pretty good ball handler for his size) but I don't think I take him middle first. MAYBE 28th with Miami's pick if there isn't someone with more potential on the board. I like that he is a versatile contributor; however his lack of lateral quickness, a jumpshot and overall footspeed deter me quite strongly.

    He's never going to beat a decent perimeter defender in the NBA off the dribble. It's just not going to happen - he's way too slow for that. His handles aren't to the point where they'd compensate for it either.

    I don't see a starter but that's not a bad thing. I think like you said not too long ago: at worst, he can come in off the bench, initiate the offense, rebound very well and get some put packs/maybe make some mid range shots on a good day. Could be a very nice role player that causes matchup nightmares downlow for opposing backup point guards.

    Very unique player and I would be totally cool with a very late/early 2nd flayer if Wildcard Grant decides to use one of our later picks.

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  22. #1348
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    Default Re: 2013 NBA Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by STAT View Post
    Shabazz looks very good tonight against Arizona, showing some range, attacking the basket, and working defensively. This is also his eighth game with 20+ points on the season. He remains my second favorite prospect in this draft (behind Noel).
    Agreed

  23. #1349
    Rising Star bushwick_bill's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2013 NBA Draft

    I love Shabazz and Irving with Dion off the bench. Add Lebron to the mix and watch out... top 5 pick Cavs can't go wrong this year.

  24. #1350
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    Default Re: 2013 NBA Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Len View Post
    Is floor spacing that needed out of the 4 and 5 positions now?

    OKC, made it to the Finals with Perk/Ibaka front court. Up until this year Ibaka didn't show his range.

    The Bulls teams of old (With MJ of course) Didn't get their scoring from their Bigs. Longley/Carwright/Grant/Purdue

    Ewing/Oakley was a pretty strong D frontcourt.
    Ibaka has been shooting over 40% from midrange since his 2nd year in the NBA.

    http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Serge%20Ibaka

    16-23 Feet:
    2011 - 42% on 2.2 attempts per game
    2012 - 46% on 2.6
    2013 - 46% on 4.3


    Horace Grant was a good midrange shooter. And did you really use the Bulls as an example because, you know, a lot of teams were able to emulate a team that had Michael Jordan on it and running the triangle.

    Both Oakley and Ewing were good midrange shooters. Hell, that's all Oakley did when he wasnt fouling hard and rebounding.

    Again, the NBA has turned into a drive and kick league.

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