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Thread: Dion Waiters

  1. #3766
    Coming out of his shell.. Lumthemad's Avatar
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    Default Re: Welcome Dion Waiters

    Dion has shown himself to a lot more well rounded in terms of his gameplay than i was expecting. I knew he had the ability to make tough shots and offensively at times was going to get his but i'm also pleased with his ability to pass and his sometimes ability to defend. My main gripe still with him is he tries to pick and choose when he's going to play hard on the offense end and he needs to bring it straight from the tip off.
    Sometimes madness is the best kind of logic

  2. #3767
    The second of his name. theSTEREO.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Welcome Dion Waiters

    Not really sure what thread to put this in, but this caught my eye.

    @WFNYScott
    "Let me reiterate: THE LINEUP OF IRVING, WAITERS, GEE, THOMPSON, AND VAREJAO LEADS THE NBA IN +/-." dlvr.it/2VFQS0 #Cavs
    10:57am - 16 Nov 12



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    Send Sideshow to ASG Pioneer10's Avatar
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    Default Re: Welcome Dion Waiters

    Quote Originally Posted by theSTEREO. View Post
    Not really sure what thread to put this in, but this caught my eye.

    @WFNYScott
    "Let me reiterate: THE LINEUP OF IRVING, WAITERS, GEE, THOMPSON, AND VAREJAO LEADS THE NBA IN +/-." dlvr.it/2VFQS0 #Cavs
    10:57am - 16 Nov 12

    Byron Scott and Chris Grant need to win COY and EOY respectively based on this data. Amazing that you're freaking starting lineup has the best +/- of any lineup in the league and and you still have the 8th worse point differential in the league. That's an amazing performance driving the tank while you are building a strong foundation and keeping fan interest
    Last edited by Pioneer10; 11-16-2012 at 05:54 PM.
    There is a tension, peculiar to basketball, between the interests of the team and the interests of the individual. The game continually tempts the people who play it to do things that are not in the interest of the group.
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  4. #3769
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    Default Re: Welcome Dion Waiters

    Quote Originally Posted by Pioneer10 View Post
    Byron Scott and Chris Grant need to win COY and EOY respectively based on this data. Amazing that you're freaking starting lineup has the best +/- of any lineup in the league and and you still have the 8th worse point differential in the league. That's an amazing performance driving the tank while keeping building a foundation and keeping fan interest
    It really is pretty masterful tanking. They're not losing intentionally or holding out players. They just put together the worst bench in the entire history of basketball.

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  6. #3770
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    Default Re: Welcome Dion Waiters

    Quote Originally Posted by Pioneer10 View Post
    Byron Scott and Chris Grant need to win COY and EOY respectively based on this data. Amazing that you're freaking starting lineup has the best +/- of any lineup in the league and and you still have the 8th worse point differential in the league. That's an amazing performance driving the tank while keeping building a foundation and keeping fan interest
    It's very impressive, but somewhat exaggerated because our starting 5 has played a ton of minutes together compared to other groups around the league.

    For instance, 82games says our starting 5 has played 120.7 minutes and are +50.

    The red hot Knicks starting 5 is at +31, but have only played 49.7 minutes together.

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    Default Re: Welcome Dion Waiters

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon View Post
    It's very impressive, but somewhat exaggerated because our starting 5 has played a ton of minutes together compared to other groups around the league.

    For instance, 82games says our starting 5 has played 120.7 minutes and are +50.

    The red hot Knicks starting 5 is at +31, but have only played 49.7 minutes together.
    Our starting five has to play a ton of minutes together to avoid fan depression.

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    Default Re: Welcome Dion Waiters

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Brickman View Post
    Our starting five has to play a ton of minutes together to avoid fan depression.
    I hope they continue playing a ton of minutes together in order to build continuity and a core, but losing due to such an obvious problem can get frustrating, and Scott will probably keep tinkering to try to find a mix and maybe CG or DG will feel compelled to try something.

    The Wiz just released Janero Pargo so they could sign Shaun Livingston.

    I'm not even going to bother looking up their numbers, but these guys (or someone out there) has got to be better than what we're running out there.

    It'll be interesting to see if they stay on the tank-path.

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    Situational Stopper B3team's Avatar
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    Default Re: Welcome Dion Waiters

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon View Post
    I hope they continue playing a ton of minutes together in order to build continuity and a core, but losing due to such an obvious problem can get frustrating, and Scott will probably keep tinkering to try to find a mix and maybe CG or DG will feel compelled to try something.

    The Wiz just released Janero Pargo so they could sign Shaun Livingston.

    I'm not even going to bother looking up their numbers, but these guys (or someone out there) has got to be better than what we're running out there.

    It'll be interesting to see if they stay on the tank-path.
    Whenever all of these players are on your team at the same time, you never really need to look at any numbers:

    Walton, Sloan, Casspi, Harangody, Pargo, Samuels, Miles, Leuer.

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    Default Re: Welcome Dion Waiters

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon View Post
    It's very impressive, but somewhat exaggerated because our starting 5 has played a ton of minutes together compared to other groups around the league.

    For instance, 82games says our starting 5 has played 120.7 minutes and are +50.

    The red hot Knicks starting 5 is at +31, but have only played 49.7 minutes together.
    Sure, you can look at it this way.. but doesn't more minutes together also mean they've had more time to "come back down to Earth" and make the stat even more impressive?

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    Default Re: Welcome Dion Waiters

    Quote Originally Posted by MoFlo View Post
    Sure, you can look at it this way.. but doesn't more minutes together also mean they've had more time to "come back down to Earth" and make the stat even more impressive?
    Exactly. Whenever a stat table shows a certain statistic and also shows things like the number of shots taken, the number of minutes played, etc., it really brings to light how important the sample size is in that situation. For us, I agree with you that it actually plays in our favor. Let's be real here. What are you going to be more compelled to side with? A study that consists of 10 participants or a study that consists of 50 participants (assuming all other aspects of the study are the same)? Let's now put it into basketball terms. What's more impressive for an NBA season for 3p%? A 3p% of 55 for 11/20 shots or a 45% 3p% for 135/300 shots? I'd go with the latter.
    "For the Tank God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only Tank Son, Antawn Jamison, and whosoever believes in Him, will not perish, but have everlasting high draft picks." - Tank 3:16

  14. #3776
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    Default Re: Welcome Dion Waiters

    Yea, but with both samples being so small it might actually be better to have more minutes together when looking at +/- stats.

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    Default Re: Welcome Dion Waiters

    Quote Originally Posted by RMsDanielGibson View Post
    Exactly. Whenever a stat table shows a certain statistic and also shows things like the number of shots taken, the number of minutes played, etc., it really brings to light how important the sample size is in that situation. For us, I agree with you that it actually plays in our favor. Let's be real here. What are you going to be more compelled to side with? A study that consists of 10 participants or a study that consists of 50 participants (assuming all other aspects of the study are the same)? Let's now put it into basketball terms. What's more impressive for an NBA season for 3p%? A 3p% of 55 for 11/20 shots or a 45% 3p% for 135/300 shots? I'd go with the latter.
    Agreed. But if we are being real, I think we all know there is no way the Cavs have the best starting 5 in basketball. We might not even be in the top half.

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    Default Re: Welcome Dion Waiters

    Quote Originally Posted by B3team View Post
    Agreed. But if we are being real, I think we all know there is no way the Cavs have the best starting 5 in basketball. We might not even be in the top half.
    Yet, after 8 games, we have the best +/- differential in the league with our starting five. Kyrie and Varejao alone probably put us in the top half of the league in a starting five.
    "For the Tank God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only Tank Son, Antawn Jamison, and whosoever believes in Him, will not perish, but have everlasting high draft picks." - Tank 3:16

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    Default Re: Welcome Dion Waiters

    Quote Originally Posted by RMsDanielGibson View Post
    Yet, after 8 games, we have the best +/- differential in the league with our starting five. Kyrie and Varejao alone probably put us in the top half of the league in a starting five.
    Good point, KI and AV are 2 great players. It kinda balances out though, because most teams currently outmatch us at the 2 3 5.

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    Default Re: Welcome Dion Waiters

    Quote Originally Posted by B3team View Post
    Good point, KI and AV are 2 great players. It kinda balances out though, because most teams currently outmatch us at the 2 3 5.
    I'd say that we're mostly outmatched at the 3 (Gee) and 4 (TT), but we're clearly outmatching pretty much every team at the 1 (Kyrie) and 5 (Varejao) and a lot of times at the 2 (Dion). Dion's at least an average shooting guard already if not above average. Keep in mind that the SG position is about as weak as the C position in the NBA. You have Dwyane Wade, Kobe, Harden, then who for SG?

    On top of this, even though Gee and TT are not great offensive players, Gee is a lock-down defender, and TT holds his own on defense as well.

    Somehow, it's all been adding up very well so far. We'll see if it continues.
    "For the Tank God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only Tank Son, Antawn Jamison, and whosoever believes in Him, will not perish, but have everlasting high draft picks." - Tank 3:16

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