Dion Waiters

[Jon]

Really player comes back from injury and it takes him some games to get back to playing well? There is no leap of faith there

The problem with that is Dion had no track record to look back at - and compare and say obviously something isn't right.

[Jon]

Hind sight is always wonderful.

Andy was a catlyst on the team from nearly the minute he joined the team - and that was primarily about his defense. Yes, he overemphasized help defense over individual D, and that was very important to our success. He cleaned up a ton of mistakes, and got us a ton of extra possessions, and made a huge difference when he was on the floor because he could man the post, and the other guys could spread the floor so LeISO could work.

Of course he's gotten better in other areas with age, experience, and how can help but learn playing next to someone like Ben Wallace; but that doesn't negate what he was or where he was heading. I never understood why some fans thought Andy wouldn't be able to adapt his game as he lost his "energy".

[Douglar]

I never understood why some fans thought Andy wouldn't be able to adapt his game as he lost his "energy".

Let me explain it for you then. The reason why some fans thought Andy wouldn't be able to adapt his game as he lost his "energy" is because most of the time when an "energy player" loses his ability to play with energy every night, he's lost what made him a viable NBA player.

We'll have to see how it goes when Andy can't play with engery every night. It often happens to front court players when they turn 30. Andy turned 30 this season. I got my fingers crossed, but I also realize that there's a long track record of players going all Scott Pollard when they turn 30.

[Jack Brickman]

Let me explain it for you then. The reason why some fans thought Andy wouldn't be able to adapt his game as he lost his "energy" is because most of the time when an energy player loses his ability to play with energy, he loses what made him a viable NBA player.

We'll have to see how it goes when Andy can't play with engery every night. It often happens to front court players when they turn 30. Andy turned 30 this season. I got my fingers crossed, but I also realize that there's a long track record of players going all Scott Pollard when they turn 30.

I call bullshit on that. Very few people are as awesome as Scot Pollard at 30.

[Jon]

Let me explain it for you then. The reason why some fans thought Andy wouldn't be able to adapt his game as he lost his "energy" is because most of the time when an "energy player" loses his ability to play with energy every night, he's lost what made him a viable NBA player.

We'll have to see how it goes when Andy can't play with engery every night. It often happens to front court players when they turn 30. Andy turned 30 this season. I got my fingers crossed, but I also realize that there's a long track record of players going all Scott Pollard when they turn 30.

Their bad for thinking Andy was just an "energy player".

[Douglar]

I call bullshit on that. Very few people are as awesome as Scot Pollard at 30.

OK, You got me. It wasn't the day he turned 30. He managed to play about another 40 good games after he turned 30, but by the time he got to Cleveland, he was a drain on both the offense and defense when he played.

[Jack Brickman]

OK, You got me. It wasn't the day he turned 30. He managed to play about another 40 good games after he turned 30, but by the time he got to Cleveland, he was a drain on both the offense and defense when he played.

I wasn't referring to his play.

[JiggleIt]

Do drugs Dougs.

[Jack Brickman]

[Prophet Named X]

Do drugs Dougs.

Fuck you. At least post the video.

[Len]

If someone can refresh my memory.

Wasn't there a graph, or some set of numbers stating that if Dion scored on average 12ppg and had X amount of Assist/Rebounds, he would rank as a top end SG in the league? I want to say the numbers for SG were low because that position seems to have lost its depth. Other than Harden/Kobe/Wade/Manu ie.


If my memory serves me correctly, I think Dion is on pace to be a good Sg in the league for years to come. His game will only improve as the team improves also, ie: Kyrie assists. Kyrie nets more assists because we have better quality players who can make shots and make plays. Same would go for Dion. His game will expand when the roster fills out.

[CavsFan_23]

Someone believes it. The guy is built like a brick shit house and garnered accolades for his on ball defense in college. Have some balls. C'mon, come out from under your rock. Don't wait for momentum. Give some line of reasoning for why waiters will be da defensive stopper.

Out of all the people in this forum I find your posts to always be the most ridiculous and annoying to read. All you do is make rash judgments and statements that really make no sense and have no factual support.

You honestly bash the kid for no reason at all.

[BigErieCavsFan]

Hate to talk Andy in the Dion thread, but I have to say that I always thought Andy was going to be a great defensive player. In fact, in his 2nd year here I said someday he would be in the DPOY conversation. And yes, I still hold out hope for that if he can ever stay healthy...

[Jon]

If someone can refresh my memory.

Well, if you search on BBR for all guards who averaged more pts, assists, steals, and rebounds per game than Dion, and then eliminate the point-guards ... you're basically left with Mayo, Kobe, Harden, Ellis, and Westbrook.

Does that make Dion nearly a top-5 SG right now?

Of course not, but it certainly does say something about the number of SGs around the league who can stuff the stat-sheet ... and something else perhaps even more important.

For instance, if we use Brad Beal instead and look for players how have a higher PPG, APG, SPG, and 3PT% we end up with just Evan Tuner, Klay Thompson, OJ Mayo, and Kobe Bryant. If we thought that combination of stats was the end-all/be-all then Beal would have to be considered a top-5 SG right now.

The fallacy here is really using the favorable combined stat method. It's a favorite of home-team announcers, but it's a crock and you can make almost any player look good with it.

Throw in a qualifier like TS% and both Dion and Beal simply fall off the map.

[Triplethreat]

Dion.